My Z150 just died

Paul Anderegg · December 9th, 2016, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

I am a Sony guy too but the new Panasonic HC-X1 or the AG-UX180 have a lot to offer. 20x zoom, with 24mm wide angle, 50/60P UHD, DCI 4K and lots of image controls. Have touch focus etc too . If you have an iPad there is also a nice remote control app rather than the limited PlayMemories app from Sony.

Number 1 thing the Panasonic UX180 has going for it, is a full 16 segment color matrix control menu...that means you can point 16 different primary, secondary, and thirdary colors at their proper vectorscope locations, unlike the Sony, which let's you manipulate only 2.

Paul

Paul Anderegg · January 20th, 2017, 02:36 PM

Well, I am unhappy to report that in addition to the backfocus mechanism vibrating and blurring out, it has now rendered my camera non parfocal. Noticed this in my latest 4K clips I shot. All of my wide angle footage was very soft, or to be more correct, out of focus. Typically, I only see my footage in the little FCPX preview box, and when it airs in 720p60 at home. With my new 4K TV, I have been exited to shoot more 4K clips, so I can actually notice these issues on tripod shots most.

To test this, a few minutes ago I went outside and zoomed in on a car license tag, and used 8x expand to get it in critical focus. I then zoomed fully out, and as expected, the image went soft, visible in the 8x expanded focus. I have to ever ever ever so gently turn the focus ring to snap it all sharp. You X70 and Z150 owners know how much of a PITA full wide angle critical focus changes can be...you barely touch the dial and you've gone from infinity to macro, so this is a serious issue. If you look a the latest clip in my Z150 4K thread, you will be able to see every wide angle shot is out of focus, especially obvious in vehicle license tags. If you look at my older clips, prior to reporting the lens dying, you will find tac sharp wide angle images.

It would appear the backfocus is OFF...you cannot shoot at infinit spin infinity and have the shot in focus wide any longer on this camera. On my 2/3" cameras I would simply zoom in to find focus, zoom out, loosen backfocus lock, turn the ring to regain wide alignment, lock down, done. On this camera, no such luck. Sony, you are lucky you include MPEG-TS streaming on your stupid cameras, because that is the ONLY thing keeping me reliant on your products. :-P

Paul

Adding 4K frame grab, view full size to see "da blur"

Ron Evans · January 20th, 2017, 03:23 PM

I never manual focus any of my small Sony's. Touch focus is the only way I have found that they get in focus and then always at the zoom framing I want because they will go out if moved too much. The standard way of zoom in, focus and then frame does not work, or at least never worked for me on any of these. That is AX100, AX53, NX30U, CX700 and all the ones before too like XR500 etc that I have had. Touch focus gets it sharp if there is enough light. Since the Z150 does not have touch screen this is not available !!!

John Nantz · January 20th, 2017, 05:55 PM

Paul - That is a real bummer and on a pro cam which is one’s livelihood. One would think that a pro cam should be more robust than a consumer cam because the user counts on it for a living and it would get more use.

Although you aren’t a repairman perhaps in your dealings you may have some insight, so, by any chance, do you know if the back focus uses a servo motor?

Paul Anderegg · January 20th, 2017, 06:02 PM

Assuming it uses a servo motor, probably one of those corkscrew things, don't now. I do know that these damn "electronic backfocus" lenses are a nightmare, you've seen my posted problems with them, with the video clips to back them up, it's ridiculous. And it's always the same issue, my X180, my X200, now this Z150, all have backfocus issues. Wide angle infinity shots are practically the simplest and easiest to not screw up, yet my Z150 is not able to pull that off anymore. :-(

Paul

Rick Miller · January 27th, 2017, 08:15 AM

So I was really interested in purchasing this cam, mostly glowing reviews out there...until I read this post. I haven't really read about this issue from others, so is this just an isolated problem with this cam, are others experiencing it also?

Just looking for advice to pass or not. The UX180 looks decent, or I can wait until NAB for new releases (anyone have rumors on what is coming)?

Paul Anderegg · January 27th, 2017, 08:30 AM

I believe one other person reported a similar issue with their Z150. The kicker is that I have had three Sony cameras in a row with back focus issues, so it appears to be a sore point of Sony's design. My camera continues to buzz and vibrate, blurring my telephoto shots. If I was shooting a wedding, and zoomed in for the kiss or the "I do's", then I would be screwed, as you must zoom to wide angle to get the buzzing and vibrations to stop, and the focus to return.

Then again, see my 4K post, maybe the picture will win you over...perhaps I just have horrible backfocus luck!

Paul

Gerald Webb · May 13th, 2017, 05:05 PM

Can any of you answer a question for me please.
I have a PXW X160, have had it for about 2 years.
It has been solid.
I only use manual focus and zoom with the rings. I may have used the zoom toggle once when I first got it, it worked fine. There is a switch on the 160 that disables the zoom toggle, so even if I bump it or touch the handle zoom it does nothing.
So the question-
Am I immune to these lens issues by using full manual?
Or is it irrelevent because the zoom is motorised even when using the ring?
Thanks for any feedback.

Paul Anderegg · May 13th, 2017, 05:39 PM

The issue with these small cameras is the continuously variable servo controlled backfocus, necessary to make these lenses act as parfocal, meaning focus does not change when zooming. See the post below in the EX Handhelds forum regarding my experience with this issue on my X180. The last post includes a link to the firmware that supposedly solves these issues...the X160 would have it's own firmware though.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...ens-issue.html

January 20th, 2017, 02:36 PM	#47
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: My Z150 just died Well, I am unhappy to report that in addition to the backfocus mechanism vibrating and blurring out, it has now rendered my camera non parfocal. Noticed this in my latest 4K clips I shot. All of my wide angle footage was very soft, or to be more correct, out of focus. Typically, I only see my footage in the little FCPX preview box, and when it airs in 720p60 at home. With my new 4K TV, I have been exited to shoot more 4K clips, so I can actually notice these issues on tripod shots most. To test this, a few minutes ago I went outside and zoomed in on a car license tag, and used 8x expand to get it in critical focus. I then zoomed fully out, and as expected, the image went soft, visible in the 8x expanded focus. I have to ever ever ever so gently turn the focus ring to snap it all sharp. You X70 and Z150 owners know how much of a PITA full wide angle critical focus changes can be...you barely touch the dial and you've gone from infinity to macro, so this is a serious issue. If you look a the latest clip in my Z150 4K thread, you will be able to see every wide angle shot is out of focus, especially obvious in vehicle license tags. If you look at my older clips, prior to reporting the lens dying, you will find tac sharp wide angle images. It would appear the backfocus is OFF...you cannot shoot at infinit spin infinity and have the shot in focus wide any longer on this camera. On my 2/3" cameras I would simply zoom in to find focus, zoom out, loosen backfocus lock, turn the ring to regain wide alignment, lock down, done. On this camera, no such luck. Sony, you are lucky you include MPEG-TS streaming on your stupid cameras, because that is the ONLY thing keeping me reliant on your products. :-P Paul Adding 4K frame grab, view full size to see "da blur" Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Paul Anderegg; January 20th, 2017 at 03:07 PM.

January 20th, 2017, 03:23 PM	#48
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	Re: My Z150 just died I never manual focus any of my small Sony's. Touch focus is the only way I have found that they get in focus and then always at the zoom framing I want because they will go out if moved too much. The standard way of zoom in, focus and then frame does not work, or at least never worked for me on any of these. That is AX100, AX53, NX30U, CX700 and all the ones before too like XR500 etc that I have had. Touch focus gets it sharp if there is enough light. Since the Z150 does not have touch screen this is not available !!!

January 20th, 2017, 05:55 PM	#49
John Nantz Trustee Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 1,254	Re: My Z150 just died Paul - That is a real bummer and on a pro cam which is one’s livelihood. One would think that a pro cam should be more robust than a consumer cam because the user counts on it for a living and it would get more use. Although you aren’t a repairman perhaps in your dealings you may have some insight, so, by any chance, do you know if the back focus uses a servo motor?

January 20th, 2017, 06:02 PM	#50
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: My Z150 just died Assuming it uses a servo motor, probably one of those corkscrew things, don't now. I do know that these damn "electronic backfocus" lenses are a nightmare, you've seen my posted problems with them, with the video clips to back them up, it's ridiculous. And it's always the same issue, my X180, my X200, now this Z150, all have backfocus issues. Wide angle infinity shots are practically the simplest and easiest to not screw up, yet my Z150 is not able to pull that off anymore. :-( Paul

January 27th, 2017, 08:15 AM	#51
Rick Miller Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: stuart, florida Posts: 76	Re: My Z150 just died So I was really interested in purchasing this cam, mostly glowing reviews out there...until I read this post. I haven't really read about this issue from others, so is this just an isolated problem with this cam, are others experiencing it also? Just looking for advice to pass or not. The UX180 looks decent, or I can wait until NAB for new releases (anyone have rumors on what is coming)?

January 27th, 2017, 08:30 AM	#52
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: My Z150 just died I believe one other person reported a similar issue with their Z150. The kicker is that I have had three Sony cameras in a row with back focus issues, so it appears to be a sore point of Sony's design. My camera continues to buzz and vibrate, blurring my telephoto shots. If I was shooting a wedding, and zoomed in for the kiss or the "I do's", then I would be screwed, as you must zoom to wide angle to get the buzzing and vibrations to stop, and the focus to return. Then again, see my 4K post, maybe the picture will win you over...perhaps I just have horrible backfocus luck! Paul

May 13th, 2017, 05:05 PM	#53
Gerald Webb Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Coast Australia Posts: 1,046	Re: My Z150 just died Can any of you answer a question for me please. I have a PXW X160, have had it for about 2 years. It has been solid. I only use manual focus and zoom with the rings. I may have used the zoom toggle once when I first got it, it worked fine. There is a switch on the 160 that disables the zoom toggle, so even if I bump it or touch the handle zoom it does nothing. So the question- Am I immune to these lens issues by using full manual? Or is it irrelevent because the zoom is motorised even when using the ring? Thanks for any feedback. __________________ http://vimeo.com/livewebvideo

May 13th, 2017, 05:39 PM	#54
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: My Z150 just died The issue with these small cameras is the continuously variable servo controlled backfocus, necessary to make these lenses act as parfocal, meaning focus does not change when zooming. See the post below in the EX Handhelds forum regarding my experience with this issue on my X180. The last post includes a link to the firmware that supposedly solves these issues...the X160 would have it's own firmware though. http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...ens-issue.html