X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? at DVinfo.net

Greg Allen · January 27th, 2016, 01:40 AM

As an audio engineer I am particular about sound quality. (not that the general public will notice it especially embedded in video with other sounds but...) So how good are the pre-amps on this camcorder? Has anyone tested them? Is there a noticeable noise-floor in the recordings when using a low self noise mic? Should I be looking for say a Sound Devices recorder in place of the on-board audio?

Paul Anderegg · January 27th, 2016, 07:15 AM

I've got a Sanken CS-3e I can plug into my X70.......how would you want it tested, I could send you a sample clip. I am assuming my $1500 Sanken qualifies as "low self noise" in nature?

Paul

Atticus Lake · January 27th, 2016, 09:36 AM

I've found the X70 to be pretty decent for audio, and with low noise particularly. I'm doing a lot of field recording, so low noise is important to me, and I've even dabbled with using the X70 for that. Sadly I have no more scientific info to share, but my impresions are good. (Compared to a Roland R-26, say).

Atticus Lake · January 27th, 2016, 09:58 AM

BTW, you might find this interesting... this is a mini-test I did over a year ago (I'd forgotten about it):

PXW-X70: Audio

Greg Allen · January 31st, 2016, 02:46 PM

Paul,

When I first looked at the specs for that mic I was thinking that the equivalent noise level at 15dB-A was fairly high. (compared to my studio mics) So I compared it against other shotgun mics and it is pretty good relevantly. Having a max SPL of only 120db suggests to me that the mic is fairly sensitive and requires less attenuation of the pre amp in order to obtain a usable signal. This is good. Maybe a good practical test would be to attach the mic and begin recording with the gain set to 0 and slowly raise it to a usable setting. (one that you typical record at, maybe -12db). Of coarse this needs to be done in a quiet room. I would say the bedroom if you do not have a treated studio. Then export that to a DAW and examine the wave forms and watch the meters. You will see the waveform expand, the meter increase and hopefully not be able to hear any hiss from the pre amps or mic at usable levels. If you begin to hear a hiss before you reach your normal recording gain level anything past that point is introduced audibly into the recording. A more sensitive mic with lower self noise will help drop that level. I am curious to find out how well these pre-amps do.

Atticus,

I followed the link but the Youtube video in that thread was removed...

Paul Anderegg · January 31st, 2016, 06:11 PM

I can try to hook up to the "studio" voice over microphones at my stations padded voice over little sealed rooms........I typically leave my X70 switches at the lowest of the three ref levels. I don't think I have ever recorded silence in a silent room, I am always in the field on ENG shoots!

Paul

Greg Allen · February 5th, 2016, 02:45 AM

Any word on the recordings?

Off the topic, will any SDXC UHS-I U3 work recording 4K on the X70? Like this one: Lexar 64GB Professional UHS-I SDXC Memory Card LSD64GCBNL6332

I'm ordering the camera tomorrow. :-)

Paul Anderegg · February 5th, 2016, 03:40 AM

Sorry, been a very busy week, some friends of mine got crushed by a tree, give me a few days to work on this.

10News crew continues to make progress after hit by falling tree - 10News.com KGTV ABC10 San Diego

Greg Allen · February 5th, 2016, 11:28 AM

Oh shyte! I hope they both recover.... Take your time, no rush.

Paul Anderegg · February 6th, 2016, 01:32 AM

OK, did a gain up test using the CS-3e and also a comparison cheap AJ-MC700 Panasonic short shotgun. I simply set the ATT to 0db, 10db, then 20db, and let the level sit for 5 seconds at 0%, the 25%, then 50%, then 75%, then 100%, with low cut off. What should I do with these files? I don't know what a DAW is, and also, there is a hum outside my apartments, and I could hear crickets on the Sanken that I cannot hear with my own ears! That damn Sanken at the same "hiss level" will produce MUCH HIGHER levels of dialog and real world NAT's than the Panasonic.

I typically shoot with the little Panasonic mic at 20db ATT, low cut off, and left at AUTO. AUTO I believe simply sets the level at 5.

Paul

Greg Allen · February 6th, 2016, 01:05 PM

Hey Paul.

A DAW is a digital audio workstation such as Protools, Cubase, Ablton Live etc.. I believe you can see the wave formats in a video editing sweet as well. If you use dropbox or google drive you could upload the wav. file and I can listen to them here. :-)

Paul Anderegg · February 6th, 2016, 02:05 PM

I spat out a WAV using FCPX..........I exported 6 different clips, each one ramping up from 0/25/50/100% on the level dial, 0/10/20 ATT settings, Sanken first, then cheap MC700 mic. Hope that makes sense.....you should be able to hear/see the stepping every 5 seconds or so on the waveform. The hum from the generator in the BKG can be your reference sound....heh.

Paul

http://1drv.ms/1SAFLX1

January 27th, 2016, 01:40 AM	#1
Greg Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Spokane Posts: 40	X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? As an audio engineer I am particular about sound quality. (not that the general public will notice it especially embedded in video with other sounds but...) So how good are the pre-amps on this camcorder? Has anyone tested them? Is there a noticeable noise-floor in the recordings when using a low self noise mic? Should I be looking for say a Sound Devices recorder in place of the on-board audio?

January 27th, 2016, 07:15 AM	#2
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? I've got a Sanken CS-3e I can plug into my X70.......how would you want it tested, I could send you a sample clip. I am assuming my $1500 Sanken qualifies as "low self noise" in nature? Paul

January 27th, 2016, 09:36 AM	#3
Atticus Lake Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Palo Alto, CA, USA Posts: 51	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? I've found the X70 to be pretty decent for audio, and with low noise particularly. I'm doing a lot of field recording, so low noise is important to me, and I've even dabbled with using the X70 for that. Sadly I have no more scientific info to share, but my impresions are good. (Compared to a Roland R-26, say).

January 27th, 2016, 09:58 AM	#4
Atticus Lake Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Palo Alto, CA, USA Posts: 51	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? BTW, you might find this interesting... this is a mini-test I did over a year ago (I'd forgotten about it): PXW-X70: Audio

January 31st, 2016, 02:46 PM	#5
Greg Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Spokane Posts: 40	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? Paul, When I first looked at the specs for that mic I was thinking that the equivalent noise level at 15dB-A was fairly high. (compared to my studio mics) So I compared it against other shotgun mics and it is pretty good relevantly. Having a max SPL of only 120db suggests to me that the mic is fairly sensitive and requires less attenuation of the pre amp in order to obtain a usable signal. This is good. Maybe a good practical test would be to attach the mic and begin recording with the gain set to 0 and slowly raise it to a usable setting. (one that you typical record at, maybe -12db). Of coarse this needs to be done in a quiet room. I would say the bedroom if you do not have a treated studio. Then export that to a DAW and examine the wave forms and watch the meters. You will see the waveform expand, the meter increase and hopefully not be able to hear any hiss from the pre amps or mic at usable levels. If you begin to hear a hiss before you reach your normal recording gain level anything past that point is introduced audibly into the recording. A more sensitive mic with lower self noise will help drop that level. I am curious to find out how well these pre-amps do. Atticus, I followed the link but the Youtube video in that thread was removed...

January 31st, 2016, 06:11 PM	#6
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? I can try to hook up to the "studio" voice over microphones at my stations padded voice over little sealed rooms........I typically leave my X70 switches at the lowest of the three ref levels. I don't think I have ever recorded silence in a silent room, I am always in the field on ENG shoots! Paul

February 5th, 2016, 02:45 AM	#7
Greg Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Spokane Posts: 40	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? Any word on the recordings? Off the topic, will any SDXC UHS-I U3 work recording 4K on the X70? Like this one: Lexar 64GB Professional UHS-I SDXC Memory Card LSD64GCBNL6332 I'm ordering the camera tomorrow. :-)

February 5th, 2016, 03:40 AM	#8
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? Sorry, been a very busy week, some friends of mine got crushed by a tree, give me a few days to work on this. 10News crew continues to make progress after hit by falling tree - 10News.com KGTV ABC10 San Diego

February 5th, 2016, 11:28 AM	#9
Greg Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Spokane Posts: 40	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? Oh shyte! I hope they both recover.... Take your time, no rush.

February 6th, 2016, 01:32 AM	#10
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? OK, did a gain up test using the CS-3e and also a comparison cheap AJ-MC700 Panasonic short shotgun. I simply set the ATT to 0db, 10db, then 20db, and let the level sit for 5 seconds at 0%, the 25%, then 50%, then 75%, then 100%, with low cut off. What should I do with these files? I don't know what a DAW is, and also, there is a hum outside my apartments, and I could hear crickets on the Sanken that I cannot hear with my own ears! That damn Sanken at the same "hiss level" will produce MUCH HIGHER levels of dialog and real world NAT's than the Panasonic. I typically shoot with the little Panasonic mic at 20db ATT, low cut off, and left at AUTO. AUTO I believe simply sets the level at 5. Paul

February 6th, 2016, 01:05 PM	#11
Greg Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Spokane Posts: 40	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? Hey Paul. A DAW is a digital audio workstation such as Protools, Cubase, Ablton Live etc.. I believe you can see the wave formats in a video editing sweet as well. If you use dropbox or google drive you could upload the wav. file and I can listen to them here. :-)

February 6th, 2016, 02:05 PM	#12
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X70 Audio Pre amps, any good? I spat out a WAV using FCPX..........I exported 6 different clips, each one ramping up from 0/25/50/100% on the level dial, 0/10/20 ATT settings, Sanken first, then cheap MC700 mic. Hope that makes sense.....you should be able to hear/see the stepping every 5 seconds or so on the waveform. The hum from the generator in the BKG can be your reference sound....heh. Paul http://1drv.ms/1SAFLX1