PXW-X70 vs RX10-II

[Cliff Totten]

Yes, I know they are two completely different cameras but lets have fun comparing anyway.

Lenses:
RX10-II has a faster and brighter constant F2.8 lens. It's not quite as long but it's certainly faster at 200mm. I think the RX10-II wins that category.

Lens Zoom:
No competition. The X70 has a very nice zoom rocker that is variable and fairly smooth. The RX10 is very limited and has rough motion. X70 = BIG winner in this area.

CODEC:
No competition here. The RX10-II does 100Mbp/s. That's 40Mbp/s more information per second than the X70's very feeble, delicate and fragile 60Mbp/s. RX10-II the clear winner here.

Battery and Recording time:
The X70 has no time limit and wonderful, large batteries. The RX10-II needs external power and an external recorder to mach the X70 here. X70 is the easy winner here. (But the RX10-II is over $1,000 cheaper so you could buy it with that money)

Audio:
The RX10-II has full audio level control but requires an external adapter for XLR. The X70 comes with it. X70 is the easy winner here too.

Picture Controls:
Both have a nice set of common pro controls but the RX70-II has SLOG-2. This is a HUGE feature. The ability to record the sensor's entire dynamic range (around 12 stops) in SLOG-2 is killer. RX10-II is my BIG winner here.

Highlight handling:
Many of Sony's 1 inch type sensor models seem to display harsh highlight's and burn quickly. It's common for Sony shooters to under expose by 1/2 stop to protect these highlights. The RX10-II's SLOG-2 could go a long way in solving this problem. I think the RX10-II "probably" wins this easily too.

Aperture/IRIS control:
The RX10-II has a smooth IRIS ring with end-stops. The X70 has a tiny, endless rotating wheel. Not even a competition here...RX10-II wins again.

Frame rate options:
Yeah...nothing to even say here. It's not even a fight at all...RX10-II all the way.

Photography:
The RX10-II shoots 20mp .jpgs and RAW. The X70?...it was stripped of pictures all together. In fact, all the pixels above and below it's 16x9 sensor crop are literally just wasted doing nothing. I think Sony could have at least given the X70 .jpg capability and removed raw...but nope, they took all photography out completely. RX10-II, easy winner here too.

Price:
With the 4K X70 costing $1,000+ more it's a tough sell for some people. The RX10-II's 100Mbp/s CODEC and SLOG-2 really, REALLY gives a ton of value to the little camera. RX10-II = winner here.

Ergonomics and body shape are a toss up. I love my X70 top XLR handle and side grip but the RX10-II is excellent given is very compact size...I'd call it a toss up or slight advantage to the X70.

I suspect that all in all, the RX10-II will out perform the X70 in final-result image quality. It's SLOG-2 gamma compression and it's tougher and more durable 100Mbp/s CODEC wins out in the end. And with the money you save, you can just about by a Video Devices PIX E5 4K ProRes recorder to go with the RX10-II. This will increase your monitoring tools and 4:2:2 capture quality tremendously.

My winner is the RX10-II...but I'm still keeping my X70! ;-)

Y'all's thoughts??

CT

[John Nantz]

Cliff - That’s an excellent comparison list.

"Y'all's thoughts??" Can this idea be expanded?

We’ve all got the deal-breaker items, and some nearly so, and one of mine is ND filters. I really need something for use in bright light and a ND64 would be nice - not a must have but nice, a screw-in filter being a fall-back.

One item that nearly everyone wants is dual XLR inputs but for me an add-on pre amp with dual XLR inputs, while not the ideal situation, would be considered. Just because there are XLR inputs doesn’t mean the camera circuitry is quiet. I’ve been using a JuicedLink pre and it’s circuitry is really quiet, plus it has phantom power capability and a number of other useful settings and control features.

IS image stabilization wold be a plus. (I do a lot of hand-held). For my cam selection I’ve got some more spec items but they aren’t handy right now so this is just to give an idea.

Everybody has deal-breaker list so "your mileage may vary", as they say.

What would be very helpful is a spreadsheet for doing camera comparisons. If DVinfo could “sponsor” a crowd-sourced” spreadsheet or data base that would be helpful.

An example of how this could look is at MacBook Pro "Core 2 Duo" 2.53 15" (Unibody) Specs (Late 2008, MB471LL/A, MacBookPro5,1, A1286, 2255) @ EveryMac.com. This site has three columns for comparisons and one can compare up to three items. All it would take is a data base for starters and this could be crowd-sourced aka Wikipedia. In the case of camcorders and DSLRs, it would be helpful to have some sort of a short user comment list for items or issues that the specs don’t cover.

[Jeff Harper]

You know, if the RX10-II had an articulating screen I would be tempted, but Sony has chosen to keep the same design.

I love my RX10, but one camera with no touch screen and no articulating screen is enough for me. I also hate that there is no auto setting for the audio, another issue I'm not pleased with.

Oh, yes, and if they have not made the zoom to move any faster then I would have three reasons not to buy.

Great camera, but it just misses the mark for me.

In my opinion, it's easier to buy a camera from B&H, try it out, and return it if necessary rather than spend months researching it and comparing features online.

In ten years I've only returned one camera, but I love having that option. Nothing tells you if a camera will work for you like actually using it. Just my 2 cents.

[James E. Thomas]

How does purchasing a new camera, try it out and return it if you don't like it work anyway? So I could purchase a new camera from B&H and possibly get the one you have played with, not a new camera IMO. I always thought they would require a reason to return a camera other than I just don't like it.

[Mike Buckhout]

Let's also consider 8-bit vs. 10-bit color space. X70 wins here.

[Jeff Harper]

James: You can return cameras to virtually any place you buy them, online or in a store. You do not need a reason. It's like anything you buy most places nowadays. You did not know this?

The idea is not to abuse the policy, but to not be afraid of trying out a new camera. I have purchased a fair number of cameras over the years and like I said I have only returned one, but the option takes the fear away. Same with accesories, etc..

IMO, you do your research, make a decision, then buy something. I see a lot of people agonize for months over a single camera purchase, which I understand, of course. But when possible it's just easier to buy something. After awhile the prolonged decision making process just becomes mental masturbation and you see members who seem to rehash over the same things over, in multiple threads, in multiple forums, and you'd think they'd never bought a camera before. I know it's hard sometimes but at some point you just need to make a decision.

It's like online dating, until you actually meet someone in person you won't know if it will work out.

[Noa Put]

You can return cameras to virtually any place you buy them, online or in a store. You do not need a reason. It's like anything you buy most places nowadays. You did not know this?

Will you get your money in return when they see you have used the camera? Where I live you have the right to send back anything you buy online within 14 days without giving a reason, but only online, it doesn't apply if you buy in the store. But when they see you have used the product you are not allowed to send it back anymore and you have to keep it, so here you can't use that return policy to test the camera's.

[James E. Thomas]

I did know that cameras could be returned but never understood what they would do with the returned camera, just send it out as a new unopened camera to the next person that purchases one? Seems it would have to be sold as an open box with a reduced price, I think that there is adaquate info on cameras for one to know if it would fit the need. That's just my opinion. I just hate the thought of ordering a new camera and someone has already messed with it.

[Jeff Harper]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Will you get your money in return when they see you have used the camera?

Of course. A buyer needs to read the store return policy, but yes, you get all of your money back as long as it's returned in like new condition with all packaging materials. Yes, you can have used it.

It's just the way it's done here in the U.S.. If it's beat up, scratched, etc., it would be foolish and dishonest to try and return it.

Yes, James, as common sense tells us, returned items are sold as open box, and the store loses money in that way, but having a generous return policy encourages sales and in the end I suppose they hope to make up for the returns by more sales.

I have purchased several open box cameras and a lot of open box accessories, and they too are returnable, at least where I buy, which is either B&H, Adorama, or Amazon.

Items sold as used are also often returnable.

B&H and Adorama, and even Amazon are very good online retailers who have a long established reputation of trustworthiness. I have bought and returned many items (new and used) from all three places and have NEVER had a hassle. The main thing is to repack the item perfectly, and to be considerate of the store, at least that's what I like to do.

Actually, I had a small issue with Adorama once, years ago. It was very minor, but their customer service (The lovely Helen) reached out to me and more than made things right. Great company.

[John Nantz]

Return policy? It varies by seller. Check with the seller and find out what their return policy is. Some don't allow returns, some might have a "restocking charge, some have rentals where the rental cost can be applied to the purchase, and so forth.

A cam is a big purchase and from the seller standpoint, getting a new box has been opened, the plastic bags opened, owners manual gone through, stuff stored on the cam ...... hey, it's a USED cam now. How can they possibly sell it as "New"? They can't. The seller has to take a loss if it's used.

Talk the return policy over with the seller, better still, get the agreement in writing, then go for it. It's not a good idea to assume every business will accept a return, especially the small and mom-and-pop stores because they can't afford to take the hit. In fact, For what it's worth, I don't know of any retailer that would take back a new expensive camera or camcorder.

[Jeff Harper]

John, the three retailers I listed can and do accept returns on cameras, lenses, and pretty much anything. Adorama and B&G are all brick and mortar stores who happen to have an online presence and I guarantee they accept returns on cameras. Some VERY expenive cameras might not be returnable, but I don't spend 10-50K on cameras so I wouldn't know about that.

Yes the smaller stores vary, of course, but I would never purchase from a smaller store, it just doesn't make sense. I like supporting local, but for the gear I buy it's just not practical from a business point of view.

[James E. Thomas]

I didn't have a problem with returns as long as they are sold as open box. I would personally never return any item unless it was defective or appeared used. I have read on the forums for years about I ordered this item, didn't like it and returned it, Sounds like a female at a apperall store!!

[Brian Murphy]

Originally Posted by Mike Buckhout

Let's also consider 8-bit vs. 10-bit color space. X70 wins here.

It is my understanding that the PXW-X70 records UHD @4:2:0- 8 bit. Or that is what I read on the BH site. I am and have been considering the X70 for quite a while and though the RX10-II is a remarkable camera for the money it is a still camera with video features. This does not work for me and many others. My needs are for a complimentary camera for my PMW-300 as many of clients now want a two camera shoot with one locked off. The 29 minute record limit is an issue, the DSLR issues with things attached to get XLR into it, the on camera monitoring, the lens as mentioned. Though the X70 has more than its share of bad press and posts on the 60Mbp/s there would appear to be evidence that it will eventually be upped to a higher rate.
I would certainly like to own an RX10-II for all its other features as a C camera and it will probably be the one that will replace my NEX7 down the road.
What surprises me is that I have not been able to find one comment from Sony on the upgrade or the 60Mbp/s. Has anyone seen anything from Sony?
All of that to say Thanks for an excellent post comparing the two.

[Noa Put]

All of that to say Thanks for an excellent post comparing the two.

Am I the only one that questions what the point of comparing them is? They are 2 totally different camera's serving 2 totally different purposes. You might as well trow in a gopro, mine can do 2.7k at 50(!) fps, can I say it is a clear winner in this case? Then it's size and we have another big winner!

I"m just being sarcastic here but if you want to compare the rx10 with another camera you need to use another bridge camera, like the panasonic fz1000 and for the x70 a Canon xa25 alike camera would be more appropriate.

[Paul Hardy]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Am I the only one that questions what the point of comparing them is? They are 2 totally different camera's serving 2 totally different purposes. You might as well trow in a gopro, mine can do 2.7k at 50(!) fps, can I say it is a clear winner in this case? Then it's size and we have another big winner!

I"m just being sarcastic here but if you want to compare the rx10 with another camera you need to use another bridge camera, like the panasonic fz1000 and for the x70 a Canon xa25 alike camera would be more appropriate.

I agree with Noa, The X70 should be compared to dedicated video camera - the fact that it doesn't have a photo mode is the clue!!! (Sorry Cliff, I genuinely don't want to sound like an arse - and I do get why you've compared the two)

The Canon XC10 would probably be a far closer comparison for the RX10-II, no XLR's on either, both use a bridge camera layout, both have a single (useable) card slot, both can be used for stills & video etc.