PXW-X70 vs RX10-II

Cliff Totten · July 15th, 2015, 05:06 AM

Why do I compare them? My opening statement explains it.....because it's "fun".

I knew when I started the thread that some might be upset by the concept. Yes, the two are different cameras...very different cameras. But does that mean that it's a terrible thing to discuss the two together? Hehe...maybe!

For me, sometimes I like throw all of the ergonomic and convenience features of a camera and ask one simple thing:

What camera is going to give me the best image quality of my shot. The best dynamic range, detail and capture codec.

Look at the Zacuto camera shootout. They took several cameras those don't belong together and did image quality tests among them with blind tests! (yes.,..the even used an iPhone)

http://www.zacuto.com/great-camera-shootout-2011

The surprising result was that all these cameras in the rights hands were to that far away from each other.

Don't take it too seriously. It's all for fun.

I certainly hope that nobody finds the idea too horribly offensive. ;-)

CT

p.s...on the "no photo" thing about the X70. As we all know, the sister model, the AX100 DOES take pictures....I'm just sayin'. Photos on a camcorder have been done before....it's shocking, yes, I know.

Noa Put · July 15th, 2015, 05:21 AM

It's not offensive, just weird :) Like comparing a bike to a car, both will get you from point a to b and you also will find "winner" points on both of them if you would compare. But don't let me stop anyone from comparing the camera's, I"m all for fun. :)

Stephen Robinson · July 15th, 2015, 09:22 AM

As far as the no photo thing, I think Sony has drawn a line in the sand between what they consider professional vs. consumers. The X70 falls into the XDCAM line, and is considered professional so it has professional features. A professional generally uses a tool with a specific design to fit their need, therefore there would be no need for a picture function in a video camera. A consumer line camera has lots of "toy" features to compete against the competition and to help it stand out to a typical consumer.

Noa Put · July 15th, 2015, 10:05 AM

Yeah, like the build in projector the sony cx handycam line had in their lcd screens. Sony is briljant though in building in superhandy geekstuff, like my sony cx730 which has a build in videolight.

Rob Cantwell · July 15th, 2015, 04:15 PM

at a recent event during some down time, I was playing around with the projector on one of our small cams, we had quite an audience before too long, pity nobody could hear any worthwhile audio.

was there a comparison done between the PXW-70 and the FDR-AX100 ??

Cliff Totten · July 15th, 2015, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

It's not offensive, just weird :) Like comparing a bike to a car, both will get you from point a to b and you also will find "winner" points on both of them if you would compare. But don't let me stop anyone from comparing the camera's, I"m all for fun. :)

Well?...would it be a "weird" thing to decide this?

I'm going to Yellowstone. Do I take my X70 or my RX10-II? My goal is the best picture quality I can get. I want the best CODEC for color grading and I want the most dynamic range...all other features are secondary in priority.

I can look back at my original post and make my decision based on that criteria.

With this in mind,...is the concept of comparing these two cameras still "wierd" to you?

There is a guy that compares his A7s to his RED camera in low light. Yeah, the A7s destroys the RED. Is that a "wierd" comparison?

The Zacudo camera challenge took many cameras that don't normally get compared together just for the sole purpose of: "which cameras give the absolute best image quality...regardless of ergonomics, shape, features or cost" The blind test results are shocking.

Nah,..it's not "wierd" at all.

When people are watching my Yellowstone video, after all the footage is shot and edited, the ONLY thing that will matter to anyone is...How good does this video look and sound?

So yeah,...the X70 stays home and the RX10-II's SLOG-2 and 100Mbp/s trumps ANY other cool feature that the X70 has. If I'm shooting a long form show or interview, than the X70 is back in play. In that case, long battery life and no time limit will have priority over image quality.

Still sound "wierd"?

CT ;-)

Noa Put · July 15th, 2015, 04:51 PM

Yes, to me it does, but like I said, don't let me spoil the fun but to go further on your example; I"m going to shoot in a public place that might prevent me from using a camera but I want something that nobody notices and I still want to be able to shoot in 4K, if you would have added the gopro to your comparison list and it said it was a smallest camera that could do 4K then I"d know I would have to take that one with me, because otherwise I might have taken the x70 with me and maybe not be allowed to shoot at all, to me that sounds weird, but I can say that now because I wrote it :)

I have 8 different camera's here, a g6, gh3/4, rx10, ax100 cx730, xr520 and a gopro 4, I really don't need to have a list to know which camera to use in which situation, I exactly know which ones to use and when based on experience, not by using a winner speculation list... It's just my opinion so don't take it too seriously.

It's my experience that specification mean nothing without having used a camera yourself in the field, your list might say camera A is the clear winner based on specifications only and after you shoot with camera A and B it might turn out you prefer camera B. Your list is full of speculation so what does this teach us?

Cliff Totten · July 15th, 2015, 06:25 PM

In posting this topic, people can agree with me and that is fine but I'm far more interested in reading about people that disagree with me. I want to hear things like;

"No, I don't like 100Mbp/s anyway. I prefer 60Mbp/s because it looks good enough for my needs and I like the smaller file sizes."

"No, I don't like SLOG-2. I don't ever want to grade it. I don't care about it's dynamic range and REC 709 is all I really want"

"A constant F2.8 aperture lens is not for me. I'd rather have a longer lens and I don't care if it's slower"

"Ergonomics and convenience features are by far the most important thing I'm looking for, that's mostly the only thing I care about".

Stuff like that is what I want to read.

In short, I will sum it up by asking this new question:

If you have a couple of thousand dollars to spend...which camera suits YOUR needs the best? (And please tell me why)

That's all...it's easy. A valid case can be made for both and it's not "weird" or "strange" to compare the two's features if you could only choose one camera to own.

Stephen Robinson · July 16th, 2015, 07:01 AM

For the majority of shooting that I do, I require a zoom lens that can be operated by LANC. All other cameras are out of the question. Now, if it wasn't for that requirement, it would be the Sony A7s hands down.

Noa Put · July 16th, 2015, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

If you have a couple of thousand dollars to spend...which camera suits YOUR needs the best? (And please tell me why)

Are we talking any camera in general now or still only the x70 or rx10?

Brian Murphy · July 16th, 2015, 08:55 AM

Well to answer the question: Which camera suits my particular needs? Both. As a result of your posting the comparison, I have pretty well decided to buy both. The flexibility of RX10 II for discreet or covert shooting in HD is a big plus as well as the 4k, slo mo still mode etc. It is lightweight and I am tired of carrying around a bunch of lenses for my NEX7 and an adapter etc.
And the X70 because it is a great little video camera that will work well with my PMW 300K1 as a B cam in HD. Most of my work and my clients use HD and though the 4K is a nice added feature it will allow me to get great audio as well as broadcast quality HD video.
So for under $4K I end up with a nice package that is lightweight and travels well.
One question: Has anyone read whether the RX10 II has manual audio control or is it ALC only?
EDIT: Found answer- Automatic or 32-step manual audio level control
Thanks
Look for my lenses and follow focus NEX7 and a bunch of other stuff soon to be posted in the classifieds.

Ricky Sharp · July 16th, 2015, 10:35 AM

For me, hands down the X70. It's my first professional-level cam and I am loving it.

Preface: I'm not a professional photographer, videographer, etc. I love doing creative projects as well as capturing family moments either at home or on vacations. I started with a Canon T4i for photos and a Canon HF G20 for video a few years back. There were several instances where what I wanted to do was beyond the limits of the equipment. My audio always sounded awful too.

One example of limits... I was in locations where no flash was allowed. The fastest my still camera lens could go at the focal length I needed was around f/3.5. So I had two choices: blurry images or noisy images. While I could put the HF G20 into manual mode, it was insanely clunky. Several trips in and out of menus to adjust things. Just impractical for many things I was shooting.

Fast forward a bit... I now have a full-frame DSLR with a fast 50mm lens (I found that 90%+ of past photos I shot were all around 50mm with my zoom lens). Between the lens and better ISO performance, I get 5 to 6 stops worth of improvement over my last camera. So while I don't always shoot at f/1.2, it's there when I need it.

For video, the more I dived in technically, the more sad I was as to the marketing hype. I know I thus wanted to move to a professional-grade video system to get the best possible HD at a price point of between 3 and 4K USD. Note: I have zero interest in 4K, so none of my decisions were affected by that.

When comparing cams, I focused on two primary things. First, video and audio quality. I am loving the HD footage of this unit! For audio, I now use a Audio Technica BP4025 stereo mic. Do I absolutely need 24-bit audio? Or 10-bit video? No, but it does sometimes really help when making certain adjustments in post.

Second, convenience. The entire set of dedicated buttons and dials allows me to make very fast adjustments without going into menus.

Other things that I love about the X70 that really pushed my hand towards that unit:

* dual memory card slots that used SDXC cards (no desire to get something with CFast or other expensive storage).
* Three ND filter settings
* two different zoom rockers. I set the smaller on one the handle to be a fixed zoom at a very slow rate. The main rocker does variable zoom. Again, it's things like this that really allow you to immediately do what you need without reconfiguring settings.

Once I got the unit, I found that I also really loved the handle. Very convenient to carry around!

Cliff Totten · July 16th, 2015, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Are we talking any camera in general now or still only the x70 or rx10?

Any and all cameras really. For me, the RX10-II have the best overall "image quality" at the $1300-$2500 price range. Of course, I'm a Sony tool and this certainly highly debatable and subjective. ;-)

Dave Contreras · July 16th, 2015, 11:08 AM

Interesting comparison! I'm considering an RX10 as a back up camera for sure! All things considered, the X-70 is the right camera for me. The things that sealed the deal for me were the size, XLR inputs, 10 bit video, IS, and SDI output. It just works better for my style of shooting. Would be nice to get SLOG and 100mbs 4k video in the future though!

Jon Robertson · July 17th, 2015, 01:14 AM

Probably stating the obvious but as a video cam, you can't really beat the, er, video cam here. I have both the X70 and the RX10 and the RX10 was quickly relegated to camera 3 behind the X70 and CX900. So much fiddling about with the RX10 that is just makes it a nuisance for me Not to say that it isn't a good camera because it is. Just not the right tool for the job, for me anyway.

July 15th, 2015, 05:06 AM	#16
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II Why do I compare them? My opening statement explains it.....because it's "fun". I knew when I started the thread that some might be upset by the concept. Yes, the two are different cameras...very different cameras. But does that mean that it's a terrible thing to discuss the two together? Hehe...maybe! For me, sometimes I like throw all of the ergonomic and convenience features of a camera and ask one simple thing: What camera is going to give me the best image quality of my shot. The best dynamic range, detail and capture codec. Look at the Zacuto camera shootout. They took several cameras those don't belong together and did image quality tests among them with blind tests! (yes.,..the even used an iPhone) http://www.zacuto.com/great-camera-shootout-2011 The surprising result was that all these cameras in the rights hands were to that far away from each other. Don't take it too seriously. It's all for fun. I certainly hope that nobody finds the idea too horribly offensive. ;-) CT p.s...on the "no photo" thing about the X70. As we all know, the sister model, the AX100 DOES take pictures....I'm just sayin'. Photos on a camcorder have been done before....it's shocking, yes, I know.

July 15th, 2015, 05:21 AM	#17
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II It's not offensive, just weird :) Like comparing a bike to a car, both will get you from point a to b and you also will find "winner" points on both of them if you would compare. But don't let me stop anyone from comparing the camera's, I"m all for fun. :)

July 15th, 2015, 09:22 AM	#18
Stephen Robinson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 69	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II As far as the no photo thing, I think Sony has drawn a line in the sand between what they consider professional vs. consumers. The X70 falls into the XDCAM line, and is considered professional so it has professional features. A professional generally uses a tool with a specific design to fit their need, therefore there would be no need for a picture function in a video camera. A consumer line camera has lots of "toy" features to compete against the competition and to help it stand out to a typical consumer.

July 15th, 2015, 10:05 AM	#19
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II Yeah, like the build in projector the sony cx handycam line had in their lcd screens. Sony is briljant though in building in superhandy geekstuff, like my sony cx730 which has a build in videolight.

July 15th, 2015, 04:15 PM	#20
Rob Cantwell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tipperary, Ireland Posts: 624	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II at a recent event during some down time, I was playing around with the projector on one of our small cams, we had quite an audience before too long, pity nobody could hear any worthwhile audio. was there a comparison done between the PXW-70 and the FDR-AX100 ?? __________________ http://www.robertcantwell.com

July 15th, 2015, 04:51 PM	#22
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II Yes, to me it does, but like I said, don't let me spoil the fun but to go further on your example; I"m going to shoot in a public place that might prevent me from using a camera but I want something that nobody notices and I still want to be able to shoot in 4K, if you would have added the gopro to your comparison list and it said it was a smallest camera that could do 4K then I"d know I would have to take that one with me, because otherwise I might have taken the x70 with me and maybe not be allowed to shoot at all, to me that sounds weird, but I can say that now because I wrote it :) I have 8 different camera's here, a g6, gh3/4, rx10, ax100 cx730, xr520 and a gopro 4, I really don't need to have a list to know which camera to use in which situation, I exactly know which ones to use and when based on experience, not by using a winner speculation list... It's just my opinion so don't take it too seriously. It's my experience that specification mean nothing without having used a camera yourself in the field, your list might say camera A is the clear winner based on specifications only and after you shoot with camera A and B it might turn out you prefer camera B. Your list is full of speculation so what does this teach us?

July 15th, 2015, 06:25 PM	#23
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II In posting this topic, people can agree with me and that is fine but I'm far more interested in reading about people that disagree with me. I want to hear things like; "No, I don't like 100Mbp/s anyway. I prefer 60Mbp/s because it looks good enough for my needs and I like the smaller file sizes." "No, I don't like SLOG-2. I don't ever want to grade it. I don't care about it's dynamic range and REC 709 is all I really want" "A constant F2.8 aperture lens is not for me. I'd rather have a longer lens and I don't care if it's slower" "Ergonomics and convenience features are by far the most important thing I'm looking for, that's mostly the only thing I care about". Stuff like that is what I want to read. In short, I will sum it up by asking this new question: If you have a couple of thousand dollars to spend...which camera suits YOUR needs the best? (And please tell me why) That's all...it's easy. A valid case can be made for both and it's not "weird" or "strange" to compare the two's features if you could only choose one camera to own. Last edited by Cliff Totten; July 15th, 2015 at 07:03 PM.

July 16th, 2015, 07:01 AM	#24
Stephen Robinson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 69	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II For the majority of shooting that I do, I require a zoom lens that can be operated by LANC. All other cameras are out of the question. Now, if it wasn't for that requirement, it would be the Sony A7s hands down.

July 16th, 2015, 08:55 AM	#26
Brian Murphy Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Monreal, Quebec,Canada Posts: 249	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II Well to answer the question: Which camera suits my particular needs? Both. As a result of your posting the comparison, I have pretty well decided to buy both. The flexibility of RX10 II for discreet or covert shooting in HD is a big plus as well as the 4k, slo mo still mode etc. It is lightweight and I am tired of carrying around a bunch of lenses for my NEX7 and an adapter etc. And the X70 because it is a great little video camera that will work well with my PMW 300K1 as a B cam in HD. Most of my work and my clients use HD and though the 4K is a nice added feature it will allow me to get great audio as well as broadcast quality HD video. So for under $4K I end up with a nice package that is lightweight and travels well. One question: Has anyone read whether the RX10 II has manual audio control or is it ALC only? EDIT: Found answer- Automatic or 32-step manual audio level control Thanks Look for my lenses and follow focus NEX7 and a bunch of other stuff soon to be posted in the classifieds. __________________ Brian Murphy Director-Editor-DoP Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto Last edited by Brian Murphy; July 16th, 2015 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Found answer to audio question

July 16th, 2015, 10:35 AM	#27
Ricky Sharp Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Chicago, IL USA Posts: 180	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II For me, hands down the X70. It's my first professional-level cam and I am loving it. Preface: I'm not a professional photographer, videographer, etc. I love doing creative projects as well as capturing family moments either at home or on vacations. I started with a Canon T4i for photos and a Canon HF G20 for video a few years back. There were several instances where what I wanted to do was beyond the limits of the equipment. My audio always sounded awful too. One example of limits... I was in locations where no flash was allowed. The fastest my still camera lens could go at the focal length I needed was around f/3.5. So I had two choices: blurry images or noisy images. While I could put the HF G20 into manual mode, it was insanely clunky. Several trips in and out of menus to adjust things. Just impractical for many things I was shooting. Fast forward a bit... I now have a full-frame DSLR with a fast 50mm lens (I found that 90%+ of past photos I shot were all around 50mm with my zoom lens). Between the lens and better ISO performance, I get 5 to 6 stops worth of improvement over my last camera. So while I don't always shoot at f/1.2, it's there when I need it. For video, the more I dived in technically, the more sad I was as to the marketing hype. I know I thus wanted to move to a professional-grade video system to get the best possible HD at a price point of between 3 and 4K USD. Note: I have zero interest in 4K, so none of my decisions were affected by that. When comparing cams, I focused on two primary things. First, video and audio quality. I am loving the HD footage of this unit! For audio, I now use a Audio Technica BP4025 stereo mic. Do I absolutely need 24-bit audio? Or 10-bit video? No, but it does sometimes really help when making certain adjustments in post. Second, convenience. The entire set of dedicated buttons and dials allows me to make very fast adjustments without going into menus. Other things that I love about the X70 that really pushed my hand towards that unit: * dual memory card slots that used SDXC cards (no desire to get something with CFast or other expensive storage). * Three ND filter settings * two different zoom rockers. I set the smaller on one the handle to be a fixed zoom at a very slow rate. The main rocker does variable zoom. Again, it's things like this that really allow you to immediately do what you need without reconfiguring settings. Once I got the unit, I found that I also really loved the handle. Very convenient to carry around!

July 16th, 2015, 11:08 AM	#29
Dave Contreras Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 33	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II Interesting comparison! I'm considering an RX10 as a back up camera for sure! All things considered, the X-70 is the right camera for me. The things that sealed the deal for me were the size, XLR inputs, 10 bit video, IS, and SDI output. It just works better for my style of shooting. Would be nice to get SLOG and 100mbs 4k video in the future though!

July 17th, 2015, 01:14 AM	#30
Jon Robertson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Edinburgh Scotland Posts: 58	Re: PXW-X70 vs RX10-II Probably stating the obvious but as a video cam, you can't really beat the, er, video cam here. I have both the X70 and the RX10 and the RX10 was quickly relegated to camera 3 behind the X70 and CX900. So much fiddling about with the RX10 that is just makes it a nuisance for me Not to say that it isn't a good camera because it is. Just not the right tool for the job, for me anyway.