Problem with X70 handling skin tones

Christopher Young · June 17th, 2015, 07:56 AM

Oh lovely! Isn't it always the way. Will be interested in your findings Tim if you decide to give these settings a run.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Todd Mizomi · July 12th, 2015, 10:52 PM

I replaced my CanonXF100 with the Sony X70 and still trying to fine tune the picture profiles to find something satisfactory.

I shoot a lot of beach weddings, the majority of which are at sunset, so a lot of times the couple is backlit.

I'm currently using Chris Young's settings:

Default PP4 except for:

Black Level +4 (to de-crush the blacks a bit)
Gamma ITU709
Black Gamma/Range High +7 (further de-crushing)
Knee/Mode/Manual/Manual set Point 87.5, Slope -2 (to pull down highlights a little)
Color Mode ITU709
Saturation +2
Color Phase -3

I usually have my Zebras set at around 70.

Really don't like how the highlights blow out (or posterize) way too easily. Seems like a lot more than my XF100 did.

To get around it, I've been lowering the exposure down to keep some detail in the highlights (and then bringing them backup in post), but then the faces get so dark I can't see them on the LCD during the shoot.

Is there a flatter setting I can use to control the highlights and shadows?

David Dixon · July 13th, 2015, 12:02 AM

If you're going to be grading a bit in post, you could raise blacks even further, allowing you to underexpose the highlights a bit more but still retain the shadows. Black Level goes all the way to +15, and will give an image with no true blacks - which you can then lower to taste in post. In my experience this does not add noise.

(I also came to the X70 from an XF100 and boy do I miss the waveform and the ability to create a super flat look!)

I was reviewing some old Sony guides and found this interesting chart. For anyone new to this stuff it does a good job of visually explaining Point and Slope. It shows how Slope controls the exposure rolloff of highlights and how lower and higher Point values move the starting point of that rolloff left or right. It also shows that + values for Slope create a more gradual curve - which is different from the X70 manual! The X70 manual says the opposite: minus values are gentler and plus values are steeper. So is that different for the X70 or a mistake in the manual? Regardless, I'm finding that if I raise Slope to +2 or so it allows me to set the Point a lot lower before the weird posterization sets in. This idea may be total garbage, but it's at least another direction to experiment with.

I'll also post the example photos from Sony that show what the custom Knee settings are supposed to be able to accomplish.

June 17th, 2015, 07:56 AM	#16
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,571	Re: Problem with X70 handling skin tones Oh lovely! Isn't it always the way. Will be interested in your findings Tim if you decide to give these settings a run. Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney

July 12th, 2015, 10:52 PM	#17
Todd Mizomi Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Maui, Hawaii Posts: 141	Re: Problem with X70 handling skin tones I replaced my CanonXF100 with the Sony X70 and still trying to fine tune the picture profiles to find something satisfactory. I shoot a lot of beach weddings, the majority of which are at sunset, so a lot of times the couple is backlit. I'm currently using Chris Young's settings: Default PP4 except for: Black Level +4 (to de-crush the blacks a bit) Gamma ITU709 Black Gamma/Range High +7 (further de-crushing) Knee/Mode/Manual/Manual set Point 87.5, Slope -2 (to pull down highlights a little) Color Mode ITU709 Saturation +2 Color Phase -3 I usually have my Zebras set at around 70. Really don't like how the highlights blow out (or posterize) way too easily. Seems like a lot more than my XF100 did. To get around it, I've been lowering the exposure down to keep some detail in the highlights (and then bringing them backup in post), but then the faces get so dark I can't see them on the LCD during the shoot. Is there a flatter setting I can use to control the highlights and shadows? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Todd Mizomi Photographer/Videographer/Editor/Computer Guy Island Production Group Maui, Hawaii

July 13th, 2015, 12:02 AM	#18
David Dixon Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 495	Re: Problem with X70 handling skin tones If you're going to be grading a bit in post, you could raise blacks even further, allowing you to underexpose the highlights a bit more but still retain the shadows. Black Level goes all the way to +15, and will give an image with no true blacks - which you can then lower to taste in post. In my experience this does not add noise. (I also came to the X70 from an XF100 and boy do I miss the waveform and the ability to create a super flat look!) I was reviewing some old Sony guides and found this interesting chart. For anyone new to this stuff it does a good job of visually explaining Point and Slope. It shows how Slope controls the exposure rolloff of highlights and how lower and higher Point values move the starting point of that rolloff left or right. It also shows that + values for Slope create a more gradual curve - which is different from the X70 manual! The X70 manual says the opposite: minus values are gentler and plus values are steeper. So is that different for the X70 or a mistake in the manual? Regardless, I'm finding that if I raise Slope to +2 or so it allows me to set the Point a lot lower before the weird posterization sets in. This idea may be total garbage, but it's at least another direction to experiment with. I'll also post the example photos from Sony that show what the custom Knee settings are supposed to be able to accomplish. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images