HDMI/SDI Output

Nathan DuMoulin · April 9th, 2015, 02:54 AM

I've looked high and low for an answer to this, but have unfortunately come up dry.

I know the CX900 and AX100 record internal 4:2:0, but does the HDMI bypass the compression and output true 4:2:2, or is it also 4:2:0?

(I realize the X70's SDI output is 4:2:2)

Thanks!

Mark Watson · April 9th, 2015, 04:06 AM

I tried to find that out also, for the FDR-AX100. Contacted Sony and they said they won't give that info out.
The HDMI outputs a signal in all recording modes except 4K. I'm guessing that it's not any better than what gets written to the card, since they don't advertise this spec. It would be a good selling point if it was better quality.

Mark

Ron Evans · April 9th, 2015, 07:19 AM

[QUOTE=Mark Watson;1882627..... It would be a good selling point if it was better quality.
Mark[/QUOTE]

Why on earth would they do that ? The reason it is lower cost is because it is missing features that are on the more expensive products. That is why they cost more. If you want 4:2:2 4K buy the FS7 or the PXW-X100. You then get 50/60P as well as many other features. Companies go broke if they give too much away. I want Sony to stay around. Since the AX100 and the X70 are based on the same core there has to be some real differences.

Ron Evans

Jack Zhang · April 9th, 2015, 07:48 AM

You're forgetting the A7s. That outputs 4K HDMI and a Shogun or Odyssey 7Q+ will be able to capture that in what we presume is 4:2:2.

Ricky Sharp · April 9th, 2015, 08:10 AM

Unless manufacturer's give us details (which, IMO they really should), it's all guess work. I know I've had a terrible time gathering specs on occassion.

From what I can tell about the A7 mentioned, that would output 8-bit 4:2:2 over HDMI. The X70 of course outputs 10-bit 4:2:2.

If a manufacturer fails to provide specs, I think a good assumption to make is that the output bit-depth would be the same as the in-camera bit-depth. It's then a 50-50 chance that the subsampling would be better via HDMI as compared to in-camera.

Mark Watson · April 11th, 2015, 11:32 AM

I did some testing with the AX100 and BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle 2. Even though the camera outputs on the HDMI when in an HD recording mode, the output seen by the recorder is either 1080i or 720p.

Mark

Ron Evans · April 11th, 2015, 03:39 PM

The output format for HDMI can be set in the menu . Can be Auto, 2160p/1080p, 1080p, 1080i or 720p. I do not have a 4K TV but my TV/Monitor identifies the others as I set them in the FDR-AX100 menu so maybe the problem is with the BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle. HDMI needs a proper handshake to operate I think.

Ron Evans

Nathan DuMoulin · April 11th, 2015, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Watson

I did some testing with the AX100 and BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle 2. Even though the camera outputs on the HDMI when in an HD recording mode, the output seen by the recorder is either 1080i or 720p.

Mark

I've tested with the CX900 and Shuttle 2 without issue.

Mark Watson · April 11th, 2015, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

The output format for HDMI can be set in the menu . Can be Auto, 2160p/1080p, 1080p, 1080i or 720p. I do not have a 4K TV but my TV/Monitor identifies the others as I set them in the FDR-AX100 menu so maybe the problem is with the BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle. HDMI needs a proper handshake to operate I think.

Ron Evans

Did you try it with the camera in RECORDING mode? Many cameras don't output the same type of signal when recording as when they are in standby or playback mode.

Mark

Ron Evans · April 11th, 2015, 08:17 PM

Yes in record mode at least to my Viewsonic 23LED monitor which shows what it thinks the signal is that is coming over the HDMI. The camera was actually recording 1920x1080 60P XAVC-S and I then changed HDMI outputs to all the choices one after the other. As the change was made the Viewsonic reported the change. As a double check I switched the Monitor to another input and when switched back to the input from the AX100 it again confirmed what was the input choice for each of 1080i, 1080P or 720P . Of course I can only report what the Monitor says not what the actual stream is that is being measured.
Ron Evans

Edit: Just repeated the tests with my 7" MustHD monitor which reports exactly the same as the Viewsonic 23LED monitor so I think the issue is with your BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle.

Mark Watson · April 11th, 2015, 08:34 PM

The Shuttle should have been able to record the 1080p modes. Maybe mine's busted.

Mark

April 9th, 2015, 02:54 AM	#1
Nathan DuMoulin Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 101	HDMI/SDI Output - X70 vs AX100 vs CX900 I've looked high and low for an answer to this, but have unfortunately come up dry. I know the CX900 and AX100 record internal 4:2:0, but does the HDMI bypass the compression and output true 4:2:2, or is it also 4:2:0? (I realize the X70's SDI output is 4:2:2) Thanks!

April 9th, 2015, 04:06 AM	#2
Mark Watson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Whidbey Island Posts: 873	Re: HDMI/SDI Output - X70 vs AX100 vs CX900 I tried to find that out also, for the FDR-AX100. Contacted Sony and they said they won't give that info out. The HDMI outputs a signal in all recording modes except 4K. I'm guessing that it's not any better than what gets written to the card, since they don't advertise this spec. It would be a good selling point if it was better quality. Mark

April 9th, 2015, 07:19 AM	#3
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	Re: HDMI/SDI Output - X70 vs AX100 vs CX900 [QUOTE=Mark Watson;1882627..... It would be a good selling point if it was better quality. Mark[/QUOTE] Why on earth would they do that ? The reason it is lower cost is because it is missing features that are on the more expensive products. That is why they cost more. If you want 4:2:2 4K buy the FS7 or the PXW-X100. You then get 50/60P as well as many other features. Companies go broke if they give too much away. I want Sony to stay around. Since the AX100 and the X70 are based on the same core there has to be some real differences. Ron Evans

April 9th, 2015, 07:48 AM	#4
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: HDMI/SDI Output - X70 vs AX100 vs CX900 You're forgetting the A7s. That outputs 4K HDMI and a Shogun or Odyssey 7Q+ will be able to capture that in what we presume is 4:2:2.

April 9th, 2015, 08:10 AM	#5
Ricky Sharp Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Chicago, IL USA Posts: 180	Re: HDMI/SDI Output - X70 vs AX100 vs CX900 Unless manufacturer's give us details (which, IMO they really should), it's all guess work. I know I've had a terrible time gathering specs on occassion. From what I can tell about the A7 mentioned, that would output 8-bit 4:2:2 over HDMI. The X70 of course outputs 10-bit 4:2:2. If a manufacturer fails to provide specs, I think a good assumption to make is that the output bit-depth would be the same as the in-camera bit-depth. It's then a 50-50 chance that the subsampling would be better via HDMI as compared to in-camera.

April 11th, 2015, 03:39 PM	#7
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	Re: HDMI/SDI Output - X70 vs AX100 vs CX900 The output format for HDMI can be set in the menu . Can be Auto, 2160p/1080p, 1080p, 1080i or 720p. I do not have a 4K TV but my TV/Monitor identifies the others as I set them in the FDR-AX100 menu so maybe the problem is with the BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle. HDMI needs a proper handshake to operate I think. Ron Evans

April 11th, 2015, 08:17 PM	#10
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	Re: HDMI/SDI Output - X70 vs AX100 vs CX900 Yes in record mode at least to my Viewsonic 23LED monitor which shows what it thinks the signal is that is coming over the HDMI. The camera was actually recording 1920x1080 60P XAVC-S and I then changed HDMI outputs to all the choices one after the other. As the change was made the Viewsonic reported the change. As a double check I switched the Monitor to another input and when switched back to the input from the AX100 it again confirmed what was the input choice for each of 1080i, 1080P or 720P . Of course I can only report what the Monitor says not what the actual stream is that is being measured. Ron Evans Edit: Just repeated the tests with my 7" MustHD monitor which reports exactly the same as the Viewsonic 23LED monitor so I think the issue is with your BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle.

April 11th, 2015, 08:34 PM	#11
Mark Watson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Whidbey Island Posts: 873	Re: HDMI/SDI Output - X70 vs AX100 vs CX900 The Shuttle should have been able to record the 1080p modes. Maybe mine's busted. Mark