x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news

Christopher Young · April 8th, 2015, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monday Isa

Yes both HD and 4k xavc-L I placed on the timeline. Works. HD is very smooth no problems. 4k is too processor heavy for my current setup. I was getting 2fps playback 4k in the draft preview. Need to upgrade my PC :/

Good to hear. Monday I reported your success back to SCS so they are now aware that it's not all XAVC-L cameras that are having these import issues with the files not being recognized. At the present time it appears to be the X70 only that's run aground with this issue.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Monday Isa · April 8th, 2015, 06:23 AM

Christopher, Priotr from this forum also experienced poor preview playback with xavc-L 4k. Here's a link to a clip.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9fh938rikhkghg/0339.MXF?dl=0

Are you seeing the same poor performance? Is this an issue as well with fs7 4k xavc-L?

Christopher Young · April 9th, 2015, 02:55 AM

Well I just downloaded this clip and it appears to be 100-mbit 8-bit 4:2:0 Intra frame. Interestingly it also displays the Transfer characteristic as IEC 61966-2-4 like the X70. It also shows a different codec ID. Playback wise? V13 build 444 opens it no problem but struggling to get better than 3-5 fps playback? Plays back in MPHC build 178 64-bit no problems whatsoever at the full 24p with only about 2% GPU load. In Vegas though... I couldn't work with it that's for sure.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Piotr Wozniacki · April 9th, 2015, 03:17 AM

I agree completely about the Vegas payback problems, but why do you say it's intraframe? Catalyst Browse reports it as AVC Long...

Christopher Young · April 9th, 2015, 03:49 AM

Sorry Piotr. You are right it is Long GOP with a GOP structure of M=3, N=6 whereas if it were I-Frame it should read N=1. I had a number of info files open at the time trying to compare the inner workings of these various codecs and one of the m was from an F55 I-Frame clip. In my haste I have obviously looked at the wrong file info list... Doh!

Still wonder why the playback is so screwed. I guess it's going to take a lot more CPU power in my case, meaning a new powerhouse PC. It's either that or work in proxy mode then render out in full res.

All very interesting but frustrating!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Piotr Wozniacki · April 9th, 2015, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

Still wonder why the playback is so screwed. I guess it's going to take a lot more CPU power in my case, meaning a new powerhouse PC.

Yeah... Interesting enough - while we're at CPU power - is that at VP 13 444 playback, the CPU is only loaded up to some 40%, and GPU - even less (apart perhaps from Best/Full mode, which is useless anyway). This clearly shows how inefficient SCS's implementation of the codec is - plenty of room for optimization. When (if?) it's ever done by Sony, it might turn out that our CPUs are up to the task, after all (as I said in another post, other 4k clips - the XAVC-S in particular, and those are also just 8 bit, 420 - my current PC can play full fps at Full/Best)...

Piotr

Jay Allen · April 14th, 2015, 07:45 AM

Chris,
Looking at the news from NAB it appears that Sony plans to replace Vegas with Catalyst when all the features get added much like final cut X. Do you have any insight on this?

Christopher Young · April 15th, 2015, 07:36 AM

Jay ~

Seriously I can't say too much. My contact is out of the office because he is at NAB. I will quiz him some more on his return. The last I heard from him was just prior to NAB and he said "Appreciate it if this were kept confidential for now." This relates to a number of things so all I can say is that there is movement at the station. Sorry I can't be more helpful but as soon as I hear anything and am able to talk about it I will post.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Jim Stamos · April 15th, 2015, 01:29 PM

Jay,they aren't replacing Vegas at all,talked to guy at nab for awhile,it's a very easy program for quick edits to convert,export

Marc Salvatore · April 25th, 2015, 01:17 PM

I'm having no luck using Sony X-70 files in the latest Vegas (444). I see them in Vegas explorer but cannot bring them to the timeline. I shot in XAVC-L 1080 60p. As a workaround I'm using Catalyst Browse to convert them from XAVC to XAVC which not only takes forever and doubles the files size but the clips have raised black levels when brought into Vegas.

Come on Sony... this is your own codec and other software programs are already working with it.

Paul Anderegg · April 25th, 2015, 11:30 PM

Marc, the levels issue is one that presents itself only under BATCH transcode method. If you do one clip at a time, the levels will be the same as the original clip. :-)

PITA Sony!

Paul

Marc Salvatore · April 26th, 2015, 07:22 PM

Thanks for the info Paul. I ended up downloading the trial version of Catalyst Prepare which does not suffer from the levels issue when batch transcoding. Hopefully Sony will solve this issue soon.

Marc Salvatore · April 27th, 2015, 10:28 AM

I just had a chat with Sony Tech Support concerning the ongoing compatibility issues with Sony X70 and Vegas. They told me it's high priority but could not give me a fix date.

They suggested I use Catalyst Browse. I explained to them that Browse screws up the black levels on clips when batch converting. They did not know this but confirmed it once I sent them images.

Next they suggested I convert each clip one at a time to solve this issue since they have no idea when this will be fixed. I explained this is not practical and suggested they give me a copy of Catalyst Prepare which does not screw up levels until this is fixed. They declined.

So let me get this straight... I bought a Sony Camera and use Sony Editing Software but I have to either buy another Sony product I do not need as a workaround or switch to programs like Adobe CC, Edius etc. that actually work with files created by SONY?

I'm really disappointed with this company. They do not back up their products.

Ricky Sharp · April 27th, 2015, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Salvatore

INext they suggested I convert each clip one at a time to solve this issue since they have no idea when this will be fixed. I explained this is not practical and suggested they give me a copy of Catalyst Prepare which does not screw up levels until this is fixed. They declined.

For me (Catalyst Browse on a Mac and working with XAVC-L from a PXW-X70), I get the levels issue no matter how I import (batch vs individual).

This weekend I ran through every permutation of imports using Browse, Prepare (trial) and EditReady (trial). Both Prepare and EditReady didn't have any levels issue.

As a software engineer, I can only guess at how messed up Sony's code base is. Both Browse and Prepare should share the same exact code base for features included in both (e.g. transcoding).

Marc Salvatore · April 27th, 2015, 11:28 AM

The tech person told me they added batch transcoding to Browse as a bandaid until XAVC-L support was added to other programs. Based on the history of Sony Vegas support and long lingering bugs I won't be holding my breath for a fix.

April 8th, 2015, 06:23 AM	#32
Monday Isa Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 913	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news Christopher, Priotr from this forum also experienced poor preview playback with xavc-L 4k. Here's a link to a clip. https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9fh938rikhkghg/0339.MXF?dl=0 Are you seeing the same poor performance? Is this an issue as well with fs7 4k xavc-L?

April 9th, 2015, 02:55 AM	#33
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,572	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news Well I just downloaded this clip and it appears to be 100-mbit 8-bit 4:2:0 Intra frame. Interestingly it also displays the Transfer characteristic as IEC 61966-2-4 like the X70. It also shows a different codec ID. Playback wise? V13 build 444 opens it no problem but struggling to get better than 3-5 fps playback? Plays back in MPHC build 178 64-bit no problems whatsoever at the full 24p with only about 2% GPU load. In Vegas though... I couldn't work with it that's for sure. Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney

April 9th, 2015, 03:17 AM	#34
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news I agree completely about the Vegas payback problems, but why do you say it's intraframe? Catalyst Browse reports it as AVC Long... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

April 9th, 2015, 03:49 AM	#35
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,572	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news Sorry Piotr. You are right it is Long GOP with a GOP structure of M=3, N=6 whereas if it were I-Frame it should read N=1. I had a number of info files open at the time trying to compare the inner workings of these various codecs and one of the m was from an F55 I-Frame clip. In my haste I have obviously looked at the wrong file info list... Doh! Still wonder why the playback is so screwed. I guess it's going to take a lot more CPU power in my case, meaning a new powerhouse PC. It's either that or work in proxy mode then render out in full res. All very interesting but frustrating! Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney

April 14th, 2015, 07:45 AM	#37
Jay Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 66	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news Chris, Looking at the news from NAB it appears that Sony plans to replace Vegas with Catalyst when all the features get added much like final cut X. Do you have any insight on this?

April 15th, 2015, 07:36 AM	#38
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,572	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news Jay ~ Seriously I can't say too much. My contact is out of the office because he is at NAB. I will quiz him some more on his return. The last I heard from him was just prior to NAB and he said "Appreciate it if this were kept confidential for now." This relates to a number of things so all I can say is that there is movement at the station. Sorry I can't be more helpful but as soon as I hear anything and am able to talk about it I will post. Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney

April 15th, 2015, 01:29 PM	#39
Jim Stamos Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 565	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news Jay,they aren't replacing Vegas at all,talked to guy at nab for awhile,it's a very easy program for quick edits to convert,export

April 25th, 2015, 01:17 PM	#40
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news I'm having no luck using Sony X-70 files in the latest Vegas (444). I see them in Vegas explorer but cannot bring them to the timeline. I shot in XAVC-L 1080 60p. As a workaround I'm using Catalyst Browse to convert them from XAVC to XAVC which not only takes forever and doubles the files size but the clips have raised black levels when brought into Vegas. Come on Sony... this is your own codec and other software programs are already working with it.

April 25th, 2015, 11:30 PM	#41
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news Marc, the levels issue is one that presents itself only under BATCH transcode method. If you do one clip at a time, the levels will be the same as the original clip. :-) PITA Sony! Paul

April 26th, 2015, 07:22 PM	#42
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news Thanks for the info Paul. I ended up downloading the trial version of Catalyst Prepare which does not suffer from the levels issue when batch transcoding. Hopefully Sony will solve this issue soon.

April 27th, 2015, 10:28 AM	#43
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news I just had a chat with Sony Tech Support concerning the ongoing compatibility issues with Sony X70 and Vegas. They told me it's high priority but could not give me a fix date. They suggested I use Catalyst Browse. I explained to them that Browse screws up the black levels on clips when batch converting. They did not know this but confirmed it once I sent them images. Next they suggested I convert each clip one at a time to solve this issue since they have no idea when this will be fixed. I explained this is not practical and suggested they give me a copy of Catalyst Prepare which does not screw up levels until this is fixed. They declined. So let me get this straight... I bought a Sony Camera and use Sony Editing Software but I have to either buy another Sony product I do not need as a workaround or switch to programs like Adobe CC, Edius etc. that actually work with files created by SONY? I'm really disappointed with this company. They do not back up their products.

April 27th, 2015, 11:28 AM	#45
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Re: x70 XAVC-L codec and Vegas Pro 13 news The tech person told me they added batch transcoding to Browse as a bandaid until XAVC-L support was added to other programs. Based on the history of Sony Vegas support and long lingering bugs I won't be holding my breath for a fix.