Any word on XAVC-L plugin for FCP X?

[Anders Mildestveit]

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

A Sony representative posted this elsewhere regards plugin support for XAVC-L for FCPX.

"I will have a concrete update on this within the next week or two once we get done with the latest AMA plugin release."

Anyone have any inside info now that Sony have released their new 3.40 AMA plugin for Avid?

Divergent media writes this in an article about xavc-L which might explain why it takes so long: "... It turns out that the Mac OS X video framework has one set of codecs for intraframe H.264, and a separate set for interframe H.264. The intraframe codecs can’t do interframe, and the interframe codecs can’t do 10bit 4:2:2..."

EditReady supports XAVC-L (PXW-X70, PXW-FS7) on the Mac

[Craig Seeman]

Latest word I've got from Sony person visiting forums is.

"Not yet. I have a loose target but we are still working out release timing with Apple."

Not that there's anything but tealeaves for me but I'd guess either with the next FCPX update (10.1.5) or otherwise around the camera's 4K update or maybe NABish.

Why do I say that? Because somehow the timing has to be coordinated with Apple.

[David Dixon]

There's actually some precedent for this. Some things seem to just get added by Apple, while others require a plugin. But sometimes even the plugin gets coordinated with Apple.

I've seen Panasonic consumer-cam AVCHD 60fps clips suddenly import as native as an undocumented inclusion in a FPCX update. And the Canon XF series cameras required a plugin, but once the plugin became available Apple actually removed the option to transcode to ProRes and to this day we are required to import native. At the time I had an older Mac Pro and would have welcomed the option to edit in ProRes.

But, I'm glad to hear that Apple is involved in this upcoming native import plugin or feature. After all, NAB is now less than 8 weeks away.

While I'm at it, here's the wish list I've posted elsewhere on dvinfo for firmware updates for the X70 - preferably as part of the 4K upgrade:

-some kind of S-log Picture Profile, but, failing that, tweaking of the Knee settings to work better so I can create my own
-waveform monitor in addition to histogram
-120fps @ 1080p - but I'd even take it @ 720p rather than nothing

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by David Dixon

While I'm at it, here's the wish list I've posted elsewhere on dvinfo for firmware updates for the X70 - preferably as part of the 4K upgrade:

-some kind of S-log Picture Profile, but, failing that, tweaking of the Knee settings to work better so I can create my own
-waveform monitor in addition to histogram
-120fps @ 1080p - but I'd even take it @ 720p rather than nothing

yes, three important things, I agree. But for now I'd be happy to see a real 10bit 4:2:2 useable with (say) Vegas? that would be super as I'm curious how a good 50mbps 10-4:2:2 looks like out of my camera. (can't see any of it yet): only the good old 28mbps avchd.
:)

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Anthony Lelli

yes, three important things, I agree. But for now I'd be happy to see a real 10bit 4:2:2 useable with (say) Vegas? that would be super as I'm curious how a good 50mbps 10-4:2:2 looks like out of my camera. (can't see any of it yet): only the good old 28mbps avchd.
:)

Well using Catalyst you can convert to XAVC iFrame ( bigger file but full 10 bit ) and edit in Vegas. Or try Edius trial and edit in native XAVC-L.

Ron Evans

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

Well using Catalyst you can convert to XAVC iFrame ( bigger file but full 10 bit ) and edit in Vegas. Or try Edius trial and edit in native XAVC-L.

Ron Evans

nah, I don't wanna do that : this is 2015 and I don't want to convert, transcode anything. how 'bout I open the footage from a real editor like every other camera does? I feel like I'm back to the tapes era here... transcoding in order to edit? come on....

[Rob Hargreaves]

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

Well using Catalyst you can convert to XAVC iFrame ( bigger file but full 10 bit ) and edit in Vegas. Or try Edius trial and edit in native XAVC-L.

Ron Evans

I am guessing you mean XAVC Long GOP rather than iFrame, since neither the AX100 or X70 record in iFrame?

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by Rob Hargreaves

I am guessing you mean XAVC Long GOP rather than iFrame, since neither the AX100 or X70 record in iFrame?

yes but that's irrelevant, at least to me. Sony can call it whatever they want, but it has to work as expected: where is the 10bit 4:2:2 50mbps advertised? I don't see any difference with the avchd : granted there is no way to know since those are just "transcoders" after the fact and by the way I seriously doubt that edius or catalyst actually transform the "unknown" mxf to a "real" mxf 10bit 4:2:2. the bitrate can be manipulated at will, so in the end I'm still waiting for the so-called XAVC (unknown so far) to come to play with us. Until then this X70 is just avchd 28mbps.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Rob Hargreaves

I am guessing you mean XAVC Long GOP rather than iFrame, since neither the AX100 or X70 record in iFrame?

NO I mean iFrame. Catalyst converts the XAVC-L from the X70 back to XAVC iFrame so that most of the NLE's can edit for Windows and to Prores for Mac. Downside is the files are of course now larger.

Ron Evans

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Anthony Lelli

nah, I don't wanna do that : this is 2015 and I don't want to convert, transcode anything. how 'bout I open the footage from a real editor like every other camera does? I feel like I'm back to the tapes era here... transcoding in order to edit? come on....

Well if you used a real editor like Premiere or Edius you could edit native X70 files. Changing Long GOP to iFrame in Catalyst is in my mind no different than capturing tape and a lot quicker. Your NLE is going to convert the Long GOP files to iFrame to edit anyway.

Ron Evans

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Anthony Lelli

yes but that's irrelevant, at least to me. Sony can call it whatever they want, but it has to work as expected: where is the 10bit 4:2:2 50mbps advertised? I don't see any difference with the avchd : granted there is no way to know since those are just "transcoders" after the fact and by the way I seriously doubt that edius or catalyst actually transform the "unknown" mxf to a "real" mxf 10bit 4:2:2. the bitrate can be manipulated at will, so in the end I'm still waiting for the so-called XAVC (unknown so far) to come to play with us. Until then this X70 is just avchd 28mbps.

It is not unknown mxf, it is mxf 10bit 4:2:2 XAVC-L. For instance I have a small clip of 10sec 30frames, 60P file. Catalyst shows all the clip details. Name of camera, even serial number, exposure and focus settings, data rate etc etc. Clip is 66,982KB , data rate is shown as 45Mbps ( is effectively a still image of some flowers ). Converted to XAVC file is now 306,062KB, data rate is shown as 100Mbps. Both files are shown as 10bit 4:2:2. As with AVCHD your NLE will have to convert from long GOP to edit other than on an iFrame so there is no difference to converting to iFrame outside or inside your NLE other than the quality of the converter. I think Sony knows how their own codec works !!!

Ron Evans

[David Dixon]

I thought I had found a solution, but no. Until Sony gives us a native import plugin, in addition to Catalyst Browse there is EditReady ($49) on the Mac side which does transcode to ProRes and several other formats. It's divergent media - same company that does ClipWrap.

Anyway, one of the options is Passthrough - which is supposedly just rewrapping the clips to QuickTime, not transcoding. Takes only a moment and the files don't enlarge. But, in testing it, the rewrapped clips from my X70 will not play in the Finder, nor will FCPX import them.

I've emailed the company to see if I'm just missing something or if this can't be done.

[Craig Seeman]

I can't help but wonder what's happening at Sony that a camera that was released closing in on 5 months ago still doesn't have a plugin for FCPX or support in Vegas. Add to that the long (and possibly lengthening) time frame for the 4k upgrade.

Are they in more serious financial trouble than they're letting on?
Sorry for venting but I can't help but think theres a serious problem afoot.

[Atticus Lake]

Originally Posted by David Dixon

I thought I had found a solution, but no...

I don't expect this to be helpful to many people, unfortunately, but I'll tell you what I'm using...

I have Cygwin (Linux command line tools, basically) with perl and ffmpeg installed on Windows. With this, it's just a simple command to re-wrap an MXF file from the X70:

ffmpeg -loglevel error -y -i "Clip0001.MXF" -map 0:0 -filter_complex "[0:1] [0:2] amerge" -acodec aac -b:a 256k -strict -2 -vcodec copy -metadata "date=2014-11-17 00:24:47" "Clip0001.mp4"

That looks pretty scary, but basically "-map 0:0" says copy stream 0 (the video); "-filter_complex "[0:1] [0:2] amerge" -acodec aac -b:a 256k -strict -2" says merge stream 1 and stream 2 into a single stereo audio stream and encode as AAC at 256 kb/s; "-vcodec copy" means copy the (H.264) video without re-encoding it. The output is an MP4 file with the camera's video output completely unaltered; this loads into PP CS6 (at least) with no problems at all. I would expect it would work in any NLE.

If you want samples of the output, check the link here: Sony PXW-X70 Tests: Cliffs on Vimeo

I have a perl script which automates this to do an entire card. If it would be helpful, I'll be happy to share it.

Though this may not work for most folks, it at least demonstrates that the video in the XAVC files isn't a problem, it's just the way Sony have wrapped it. So really, a simple converter should not be a problem. I keep hoping that the Handbrake folks will get this working. Ffmpeg's code is available in library form, so if some Windows programmer wants to have a go, a GUI converter should be fairly simple.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

I can't help but wonder what's happening at Sony that a camera that was released closing in on 5 months ago still doesn't have a plugin for FCPX or support in Vegas. Add to that the long (and possibly lengthening) time frame for the 4k upgrade.

Are they in more serious financial trouble than they're letting on?
Sorry for venting but I can't help but think theres a serious problem afoot.

They are clearly in a constrained mode as after over a year I am still waiting for all the buttons and features on my FDR-AX1 to work !!! Data code button doesn't work as well as the host USB port. It now records AVCHD ( why when it records XAVC-S just fine in UHD as well as HD ) Why they don't have Vegas working is a puzzle. I can see that Apple may have to do something for plugin for FCPX to work. Also the PXW-Z100 has the UHD Long GOP option already working which by the way is not 10bit but just like the FDR-AX1 is 8bit 4:2:0 which is what I expect the X70 will also get.

Ron Evans