X70 Full PP Color Correction settings

[Kyle Root]

I spent about 20 minutes at Best Buy today looking into this, and I didn't see anything in the menus that indicated that it allows the same level of fine control over picture looks like the X70...

[Paul Anderegg]

The AX100 should operate inn this respect like my old CX900. It has a white balance adjustment mode, where each WB selection can be altered. You can shove the colors on the Magenta/Green skew, as well as like Cyan/Red. This is more useful for adapting to lighting hue, like green florescent lights or magenta cast you get with some LED's, and should not be confused with a color correction menu. The X70 has the same feature buries WITHIN each of it's custom PP's. So basically, the entirety of the CX900/AX100 color correction capability is but a tiny deep menu selection in an X70. :)

Paul

[Kyle Root]

Yeah, I found that in the white balance menu today when I was playing around with it.

Looks like if the x70 gets a 4K upgrade, I'll probably go that route instead.

[Andy Wilkinson]

Sony Pro Europe tweeted a promo film about the PXW-X70 yesterday - perhaps as a beginning to new marketing campaign for this camera. I immediately replied to the tweet asking when the details of the 4K upgrade will be announced and suggesting that at BVE (Broadcast Video Expo) in London next week might be a good time ;-)

Just got a standard reply - that they'll "let me know when it's ready".

I certainly do hope Sony announce it at BVE - they normally have a huge stand there, and for sure I'll be on the stand to have a really good look at the FS7 and X70 in particular.

[Paul Anderegg]

I am playing around with the Color Depth adjustments. Currently I am experimenting with all Color Depth settings cranked to their maximum +7 values, with saturation turned down to -10. The intense colors "pop", but by turning down the saturation level, things like green grass doesn't glow in the dark. Will update further on these, but so far, liking the "effect". Looks similar to the "Cinema Vivid" color matrix settings in my JVC ProHD cameras.

Paul

[Stephen Watts]

Paul,
With these setting what do you set type to, e.g. revision or extract.
Regards Steve

[Stephen Watts]

Sorry Paul,
I reread the thread and found the answer. But just to make sure I have it right.
Black level 0
Gamma ITU709
Color Mode Cinematone 1
Color Phase +3
Color Correction as per your figures.

I have changed PP3 as a trial and will take it out for a test tomorrow. But looking at it in the house it does look very realistic. Also if I put the same figures into PP4 would it look identical to PP3.

Regards

Steve

[Paul Anderegg]

You can put any settings into any PP number. The only time the number means anything, is if you do a "reset" of that PP, in which case, the camera will revive the original color mode profile for that number, say 709 for PP4.

An easy "test" of the color correction settings is to use that revision/extract menu, and simply toggle between off and revision while pointed at something with green or red in it. When I toggle on and off pointed at my DSC chart, not only do the vectorscope arms move, but you can see the red go from an orange color to a more red red. :)

I would recommend just entering ALL of the PP color correction changes into each profile. You can always set them to "off" in the menu, but at least you would be able to toggle to them presaved if ever you wanted to play around.

Paul

[Stephen Watts]

Thanks Paul, it does look heaps better and I have reset all the PP settings to the original and put the new settings in memory 2. Just to double check though with the gamma are they all meant to be set to ITU 709 or would it still work if I put them back to the default setting. It seems that the ITU709 takes out the contrast.

Regards

Steve

[Vincent Jurgens]

I dialed in the updated ITU709 settings, and they seem to help in daylight.
But when I recorded a concert recently, there is a distinct green tint in a certain range of skin tones. See attached (capture from Sony Catalyst Browse, unretouched). I had to correct this in Premiere with Three-way Color Corrector with a Secondary Color Correction mask applied.
Lighting was wonky theater, probably two different gelled 3200k lights, but none green. X70 was on manual, white balance was "A" push-to-set off a grey set piece. Gain was about +9db. 1080p, 35Mbps, xavc.
Thoughts?

Vincent

[Paul Anderegg]

In the PP settings, you will find a G-M adjustment under white balance, as well as a R and B adjustment. I find for my gelled LED lighting, that I need a slight +2 magenta shift. Were you shooting under 3200k INCADESCENT lighting? The white balance and color shifts of the X70 are so bad, I recommended NEVER to use push to white for anything other than getting a KELVIN to put into the manual white setting.

The PP's were aligned with 3200k incandescent lighting. I shoot with them using a gelled 3200k LED with a +2 Magenta white balance shift.

Paul

[Vincent Jurgens]

They were tungsten. Probably the push-to-set WB was the issue. Looking back at a previous concert, where I manually set WB K, looks better.

Vincent

[Paul Anderegg]

Yeah, most likely the culprit. Any slight "magenta" being emitted by the source light, whether it be reflected, or a gel attribute, would cause a GREEN SHIFT to be added to the X70 if you white balanced off of it. All of the PP's were done on 3200k incandescent. If you want to use them with LED, the recommendation would be to get the kelvin, set manual W/B to that kelvin, then go into the PP white balance menu and shift the green/magenta until you are pleased with the image. The good thing about the W/B PP menu is that there is a PAIR of them. m If you leave the R-B options empty, then you can in effect toggle your W/B shift modifications on and off by switching from LL-BC to R-B.

Paul

[Paul Anderegg]

Originally Posted by Stephen Watts

Thanks Paul, it does look heaps better and I have reset all the PP settings to the original and put the new settings in memory 2. Just to double check though with the gamma are they all meant to be set to ITU 709 or would it still work if I put them back to the default setting. It seems that the ITU709 takes out the contrast.

Regards

Steve

Changing the gamma modes and the color modes affect the colorimetry of the picture.......meaning the color correction settings would not be fully valid if altered. Then again, the color correction settings are merely to attempt to fix the worst 2 colors in each color mode, so nothing will ever look perfect. If you want to test colors by eye, use the EVF and not the LCD. The LCD is a bit green/yellow tint.

As for taking out the contrast, if you turn gamma off, you are basically crunching your blacks. If you are shooting a night scene, you will have almost all black everywhere. Maybe try leaving that gamma setting and adjusting the master black and black gamma settings to produce the effect you are after while retaining the color correction settings? :)

Paul

[Tom Grushka]

Paul,

Have you had the chance to play around more with your +7 Color Depth with -10 Saturation settings? What do you think? Are colors more accurate?

I'm shooting a classical voice recital on Sunday in a piano store recital hall (probably incandescent lighting). I'm thinking Cinematone 1 with your corrections and ITU709 gamma, and the +7/-10 Depth/Saturation trick, and indoor or manual Kelvin white balance. If I under expose 0.5 EV, should I get decent color out of the camera in this scenario?

Thanks,
Tom