X70 wedding screen grab vs XA20 at DVinfo.net

Tim Akin · November 3rd, 2014, 07:13 AM

X70 - AVCHD with picture profile off, AGC set to 18db and it was there, max zoom with clear view on, WB 3200K

XA max zoom, Gain on auto with AGC at 21db (don't know where it was at, wife on it in balcony) WB 3200K

Has anyone using AX100 for weddings noticed more grain/noise over other cameras you might be using?

Noa Put · November 3rd, 2014, 09:23 AM

My cx730 is cleaner at it's highest iso compared to my ax100, because I always shoot in 4K on the ax100 and downscale in post the noise becomes less apparent as it gets downscaled as well and becomes much finer, my ax100 though has much more detail in the image after downscaling so if I might need to apply neat video to it would look much better then my cx730 as that one gets a bit soft at high iso's which is probably because of a more aggressive in camera noise reduction.

Tim Akin · November 3rd, 2014, 09:33 AM

Thanks Noa. I'm on the fence as to whether to keep the X70. I really liked working with the camera but it's going to cost me more time in post to remove the grain. Probably only in the long zoom shots though, I haven't looked at anything else yet. What reception footage I looked at looked decent but I kept gain at 12db or under.

Jon Robertson · November 8th, 2014, 02:43 AM

Thanks for posting that. Been really interested in the X70 but from that comparison not so much anymore. Looks like the big sensor makes no difference in sensitivity when you factor in that super slow lens. Can't believe there is more noise than the other cam although I find it hard to tell from a still.

Tim Akin · November 8th, 2014, 05:56 AM

Yeah Jon if Sony had used a fast lens in this camera it would be killer. I have been playing around with the picture profiles and think I have a better, brighter, less noisy setting that's better than standard/off. It looks a lot closer to the XA at same gain.

The reception footage from the X70 looks really good though. I tried to keep the gain below 12db by using dimmed and reflection lighting. Blacks and shadows look good with very punchy reds and blues.

What kills it is when zoomed in, especially if using clear view, which I was and will continue to do. If you can get by with 12x zoom the noise is not as bad.

I'm keeping the X70 but that was our last wedding for the year so it's gonna be several months before I get to try it out again.

Tim Akin · November 8th, 2014, 11:09 AM

Got to thinking as to why the X70 looked so good at the reception compared to the ceremony footage, so I did a few more test and for sure clear view zoom adds noise, a bunch. With clear view off, compared to the XA20, the X70 has less noise than the XA at same gain levels, way less in whites and about the same in dark areas.

That's why it looked better at the reception, I wasn't using clear view zoom.

Jon Robertson · November 10th, 2014, 03:22 AM

Yeah, my NX3 goes into a similar zoom mode once you exhaust the 20x optical zoom. Gets very messy at the tail end of the clear zoom especially if gain is switched in. Have to say, companies continue to annoy me with new cam releases. I was excited for this one until I saw the amount of pixels on the sensor. Could easily have halved the pixel count and made it really sensitive but no.

November 3rd, 2014, 07:13 AM	#1
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	X70 wedding screen grab vs XA20 X70 - AVCHD with picture profile off, AGC set to 18db and it was there, max zoom with clear view on, WB 3200K XA max zoom, Gain on auto with AGC at 21db (don't know where it was at, wife on it in balcony) WB 3200K Has anyone using AX100 for weddings noticed more grain/noise over other cameras you might be using? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Tim Last edited by Tim Akin; November 3rd, 2014 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Added question

November 3rd, 2014, 09:23 AM	#2
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: X70 wedding screen grab vs XA20 My cx730 is cleaner at it's highest iso compared to my ax100, because I always shoot in 4K on the ax100 and downscale in post the noise becomes less apparent as it gets downscaled as well and becomes much finer, my ax100 though has much more detail in the image after downscaling so if I might need to apply neat video to it would look much better then my cx730 as that one gets a bit soft at high iso's which is probably because of a more aggressive in camera noise reduction.

November 3rd, 2014, 09:33 AM	#3
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	Re: X70 wedding screen grab vs XA20 Thanks Noa. I'm on the fence as to whether to keep the X70. I really liked working with the camera but it's going to cost me more time in post to remove the grain. Probably only in the long zoom shots though, I haven't looked at anything else yet. What reception footage I looked at looked decent but I kept gain at 12db or under. __________________ Tim

November 8th, 2014, 02:43 AM	#4
Jon Robertson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Edinburgh Scotland Posts: 58	Re: X70 wedding screen grab vs XA20 Thanks for posting that. Been really interested in the X70 but from that comparison not so much anymore. Looks like the big sensor makes no difference in sensitivity when you factor in that super slow lens. Can't believe there is more noise than the other cam although I find it hard to tell from a still.

November 8th, 2014, 05:56 AM	#5
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	Re: X70 wedding screen grab vs XA20 Yeah Jon if Sony had used a fast lens in this camera it would be killer. I have been playing around with the picture profiles and think I have a better, brighter, less noisy setting that's better than standard/off. It looks a lot closer to the XA at same gain. The reception footage from the X70 looks really good though. I tried to keep the gain below 12db by using dimmed and reflection lighting. Blacks and shadows look good with very punchy reds and blues. What kills it is when zoomed in, especially if using clear view, which I was and will continue to do. If you can get by with 12x zoom the noise is not as bad. I'm keeping the X70 but that was our last wedding for the year so it's gonna be several months before I get to try it out again. __________________ Tim

November 8th, 2014, 11:09 AM	#6
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	Re: X70 wedding screen grab vs XA20 Got to thinking as to why the X70 looked so good at the reception compared to the ceremony footage, so I did a few more test and for sure clear view zoom adds noise, a bunch. With clear view off, compared to the XA20, the X70 has less noise than the XA at same gain levels, way less in whites and about the same in dark areas. That's why it looked better at the reception, I wasn't using clear view zoom. __________________ Tim

November 10th, 2014, 03:22 AM	#7
Jon Robertson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Edinburgh Scotland Posts: 58	Re: X70 wedding screen grab vs XA20 Yeah, my NX3 goes into a similar zoom mode once you exhaust the 20x optical zoom. Gets very messy at the tail end of the clear zoom especially if gain is switched in. Have to say, companies continue to annoy me with new cam releases. I was excited for this one until I saw the amount of pixels on the sensor. Could easily have halved the pixel count and made it really sensitive but no.