Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100

[Josh Bass]

Yes, I have seen those posts. Both of those strong opinions are from a single person each (different folks). I think they can safely be ignored.

[Gabe Strong]

Originally Posted by David Dixon

Wow - thanks for the kind words. My next subject is totally different - a nephew in a state swim meet - again, weird mixed lighting. Looking forward to trying the Clear Image zoom a bit but will probably use a monopod as well.

Meanwhile that "other" forum has now switched from saying the X70 can't get any detail in the images to saying that it doesn't even really shoot 10-bit 4:2:2 because someone can't see any difference between the 50mps XAVC and the AVCHD. Yep, supposedly Sony is lying and ripping us all off. Sheesh - I think I'll just go shoot.

That same poster is trying to claim that you can't shoot run and gun interviews using
manual controls on a camera because there 'isn't time to change iris and focus' and
that the X70 with its face detection is what you need to use. I think it's safe to say that
you may want to take what he says with a grain of salt.

[Josh Bass]

I was trying to be less specific and more diplomatic, but. . .yeah.

So I was looking at the manual. . .do I understand correctly iris can be assigned to that little dial and focus controlled at the lens? So the only thing not on a "ring" is zoom? I can live with that.

[Gabe Strong]

Josh,

Yeah, I probably should have been more diplomatic. I get annoyed too easily
when some people start making claims like 'somehow I doubt you have any
experience' or 'you obviously don't shoot sports' to me, when they have no clue
what I do. Just because someone isn't fast enough to use manual controls
on a run and gun interview doesn't mean no one else can do it either....
sports shooters have been doing it for years. Sure face detection
can be handy to have sometimes, and I've used it on my FS700 before.
But I certainly can and do use all manual on most of my interviews, even run
and gun sports interviews despite the fact that some people think it can't be done.
And I would tend to doubt the claim that Sony is not giving you 50 mps XAVC as well.
Just because someone can't see the difference is NOT proof that the camera doesn't do it.
I'd certainly need a lot more proof than 'it doesn't look any better than AVCHD' before
I'd start calling Sony a liar on that one.

[David Dixon]

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

I was trying to be less specific and more diplomatic, but. . .yeah.

So I was looking at the manual. . .do I understand correctly iris can be assigned to that little dial and focus controlled at the lens? So the only thing not on a "ring" is zoom? I can live with that.

Actually, the lens ring can be set to either Zoom or Focus and there is a manual/auto focus toggle button right below the switch.

The little dial below that toggle can control Iris, Gain, or Shutter by just selecting from those three buttons. And, on the screen it shows the settings on all three and highlights the currently selected one. This all assumes you're in manual.

My biggest exposure thing is that I'm really accustomed to the waveform on my Canon XF100, and the X70 only has a histogram - I'm still adjusting to that.

[Josh Bass]

to Gabe: I know, I know. But just like with Craigslist ads, you learn to read between the lines and judge whether the information is worth even considering given where it's coming from.

I wish there were more anecdotal evidence about this cam, and reviews. I've found a few but they seem very. . .uh. . .sterile? More like "here the features this cam has" vs "this is what's good about it, this is what's not so good."

To Dave: thanks for the info. In a typical scenario (for me at least) you touch gain and shutter hardly at all, it's zoom/focus/iris that get the most frequent tweaking throughout a day. So probably leaving dial on iris and lens ring on focus would get me through most situations.

I have to ask, though I feel I shouldn't. . .does "iris" actually control exposure/f stop like any other camera? I say this because there is a prosumer Sony cam I've used a few times (NEX 30 maybe?), which has a separate control for aperture/iris/fstop vs exposure. I still have not figured out how it works exactly. . .iris seems to change actual image brightness not a bit, manual says it is for "controlling depth of field" (a really weird way to describe an iris, in my opinion. . .I would consider that more of a side effect with primary function being to allow more or less light in), while the exposure control actually changes image brightness. Very strange way of working, to me. So does the X70's iris work like it's supposed to?

[David Dixon]

Josh, yes, the Iris is just lens aperture. It does control exposure (and of course depth of field). In fact, the Iris readout on the lcd and viewfinder actually shows the aperture and it even updates on the fly as you zoom.

[Josh Bass]

Great! Thanks.

[Tom Grushka]

Huh? Codec fraud??? LOL!

So far I've had incredible, almost one-click green screen results with the X70 on Premiere/Ultra Key plugin. And this with a pop-up green screen and only two "cheap" 300 W CFL bulbs from Home Depot. XAVC-L 50 works great for me in Premiere Pro. It's worlds better than my old Canon DSLR's codec, which made green screen impossible (block artifacts!). It certainly must be 10-bit 4:2:2 50mbps. If not, someone will surely find out and blow the whistle with proof.

Some people (mainly on other forums) who claim that XAVC-L "just doesn't work" seem to be a bit confused, and perhaps experiencing "new adopter woes." XAVC-L is a professional level codec and won't work in iMovie, etc. This codec is set to become a new industry standard ... but the facts that Sony hasn't (a) made this codec more accessible to developers on Mac/Windows, or (b) added the X70 to its XAVC Workflow Guide yet (http://www.sony.ru/res/attachment/fi...7492960962.pdf), are a bit bewildering, though.

But consistent with the other (firmware) loose ends that need to be tied up on this cam!!

Josh, I totally agree with you:

I wish there were more anecdotal evidence about this cam, and reviews. I've found a few but they seem very. . .uh. . .sterile? More like "here the features this cam has" vs "this is what's good about it, this is what's not so good."

[Josh Bass]

Let me ask you guys this: I am used to shooting and have done quite a bit of post with the EX1. Including green screen (had some trouble on some shoots, most of the time it's fine). I don't do broadcast work at all (thus far) and have only DP'd one green screen shoot ever (that stuff above is stuff I edited but didn't shoot). Also don't do aggressive grading except MAYBE on my own shorts (which I have not been doing lately). Do you think I would have a reason to touch that codec vs the less robust/smaller file size/easier to deal with ones?

Another thing that would be great to see is a "higher end" shoot with this cam. . .a well lit interview or something along those lines, instead of the more ENG/available light type shoots.

[Tom Grushka]

Josh,

I'm willing to do a side-by-side XAVC vs. AVCHD green screen comparison with the X70 and post it here if that would be helpful. (For instance, keeping the exact same lighting, plugin settings, and camera settings except the codec.) In fact, I'm curious about that myself.

One point of note is that (forgot where I read it -- in the XAVC Workflow Guide?) XAVC-Long GOP is optimized for editing -- that is, unlike other Long GOP codecs like AVCHD, XAVC-L is designed to have similar performance in the editor to All-I codecs such as ProRes, so if your editor is compatible, it shouldn't be "harder to deal with." (OTOH, you have lots of camera choices in this class if you're willing to compromise on the codec, like the HXR-NX30, etc.) May I ask which NLE you're using?

On the "higher end" interview side, have you checked out Joe Caneen? http://thevideowhisperer.wordpress.com

In fact, he has written an entire book, Run 'n' Gun Videography, that includes lots of his experience shooting corporate interviews using his HXR-NX30 and PXW-X70 camcorders. I'm still reading it, but IMHO he has a great philosophy vis-a-vis "going in with a six-shooter and getting the job done" with these small cameras. He has commented about the slightly shallower DOF with the X70's 1-inch sensor and that it's great for interviews. You might consider checking out his YouTube channel and/or posting on his blog and asking if he would be willing to post more of his X70 interview footage?

[Josh Bass]

Will take a look at that site. You can do that comparison if you like, not a big deal to me since I, again, have only ever done one single green screen shoot in 13-ish years.

I was wondering about that though. . .I keep reading how tiny the cam is. Has anyone received any flack on jobs where people/clients are like "is that a toy? Are you kidding me? We're paying you xxx thousands of dollars for this job!"?

I know camcorders have been on the small side for years and people are probably used to it but you still hear about that kinda stuff (or used to). Big camera = professional, etc.

[Josh Bass]

Ok, looked at a large chunk of his cam review. NOW I see the softness (I think?) that at least one person has harped about repeatedly.

Can't tell if it was 'cause it was actually a little lacking in detail (early foliage shots outside the castle or whatever, those indoor shots including interviews), Youtube compression, the fact that it was 720p and I was viewing on a 27" Imac monitor, or some combination.

Anyone have any opinions on overall image sharpness vs (sorry, again) the EX1? That cam is almost painfully sharp on its default settings, but I'm used to that.

I would swear some shots (hunting footage) looked sharper than others, supposed that could be working at the lens's sweet spot vs wide open, although if wide open IS 5.6 in some cases. . .wouldn't it already be at the sweet spot?

I dunno. It does seem like a nice cam but I noticed when looking at NEX30 footage right next to EX1 footage recently (had a 3-cam shoot, two EXs shooting CUs on interviewer and interviewwee and the NEX doing wide) that the NEX was quite a bit softer. Wondering if X70 is the same issue?

[David Dixon]

Can't comment on the EX1 - never been around one. I think the sharpness is good, especially for other competitors at its price point. The future 4K upgrade should add even more detail to the equation. I guess you saw my sample video on the previous page - I'm happy with that, and it's sharper than my Canon XF100 - and those excerpts were ALL shot with the lens wide open for shallowest DOF (2.8-4 depending on how much you are zoomed in). It would almost certainly be better stopped down a stop or two.

On your small size question, it all depends on the setting I guess. With more and more people doing video on DSLRs (not me, though) it's actually not the smallest camera around. But in certain more traditional pro settings it might seem like a handicam. I mainly deal in amateur scenarios where it's actually considered a large, serious, pro-looking camera, especially if I have extra gear on - handle, wired xlrs, dual wireless receivers, on-camera shotgun, etc. But I also love the fact that I can take off the handle and almost pass it off as a tourist handicam.

[Josh Bass]

I definitely don't deal with clients who even know enough about production gear to worry about it (mostly), but was still vaguely concerned.

I was talking about the Joe Caneen video review of the X70. Sorry if that wasn't clear.