Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Darren Levine

how much time has to pass before you start to become irked by 4k remaining as vaporware?

Yes it's always a punt on just when these 'upgrades' will appear. If it happens next six months or so I will accept it as a bonus... a paid for bonus even.

I bought the camera on it's current HD performance which is pretty good considering the cameras small size profile etc. For flying interstate and shooting talking heads it fits the bill perfectly as I only need HD. HD in a nice small package that has a decent lowish noise image that runs on cheap media and has decent XLR pre-amps and that fits in a backpack. The upcoming QFHD upgrade wasn't a major factor in buying this camera but as I say I would most likely pay the dollars for the upgrade when it arrives.

I guess one of the main questions about the 4K is will it share the same specs as the FDR-AX1,

XAVC-S: MP4 (4:2:0, 150 Mbps, 4K 3840 x 2160/60p)
XAVC-S: MP4 (4:2:0, 150 Mbps, 4K 3840 x 2160/50p)

Or will it go the the MXF route of QHFD 4:2:2 10-bit @ 100 to 150-mbits.

We wait and see I guess!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Darren Levine

Not to stir the pot, just curious since one main reason i'm staying away for the time being is that they didn't give any idea of when that update will happen, no day, no month, not even a quarter mentioned, just the "future"...

I would never buy this camera because one day it would do 4K, I"d buy it for what it can do know and if 4K comes it's a bonus. It looks like Sony has rushed this camera out to get sales started but they should have given a clear delivertime as that is what a business needs when they invest in a camera as they might have future projects that would require shooting in 4K

[Gabor Heeres]

Darren, FYI Japanese Sony personnel on the IBC told me the 4K upgrade will be in the first quarter of 2015 and cost will be around 500, unsure if that are dollars, euros or pounds.

[Noa Put]

Sony just keeps contributing to the rumor mill, they inform random people about delivery schedules and prices yet fail to announce anything official.

[Ron Evans]

I would wait for the upgrade before buying if you really need 4K on the X70. I bought my FDR-AX1 a year ago and at the time was told the firmware upgrade to make the --data code button, USB host connector and SD card slot work with AVCHD would be in the summer of 2014. I bought it to get 60P so it has worked as intended for me. Last week Ver3 firmware came out with just AVCHD on the SD card slot !!! With the issue that the files can only be read from the SD card with Vegas, not from the USB port on the camera !!! The Z100 was also expected to get the upgrade for Long GOP at the same time. This was then promised for the end of Oct only 2 weeks ago and still has not appeared. Draw your own conclusions about when the X70 upgrade may appear. If you really need 4K on a small camera get the AX100 as I am sure it will end up being the same on the X70 with maybe MXf wrapper which is exactly what will appear for the Z100 ( essentially the AX1 8 bit 420 in a MXF wrapper rather than mp4). If you need 60P 3840x2160 get the FDR-AX1 they both work now.

Ron Evans

[Craig Seeman]

Spoke to Sony people at PhotoPlusExpo and they said varyingly March through May and reminded me these dates aren't solid. So it seems end of first quarter at the earliest.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

I guess one of the main questions about the 4K is will it share the same specs as the FDR-AX1,

XAVC-S: MP4 (4:2:0, 150 Mbps, 4K 3840 x 2160/60p)
XAVC-S: MP4 (4:2:0, 150 Mbps, 4K 3840 x 2160/50p)

Or will it go the the MXF route of QHFD 4:2:2 10-bit @ 100 to 150-mbits.

We wait and see I guess!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Even the new firmware for Long GOP for the PXW-Z100 will be 420 8 bit but with MXF rather than the mp4 of the AX1. I doubt the X70 will get 10bit 422 at 60P or even at 30P when it will all be 8bit 420 on the Z100. Why would they give it a better spec than the PXW-Z100 which is twice the cost .

As a power use example on my AX1 30P at 60Mbps or even 100Mbps will run for over 2 hours on the NP-F970 battery. At 60P 150 Mbps the battery will barely last 1 hour !! At that rate a NP-FV100 in a X70 might last less than 30 mins if one could cool the camera !!! The AX1 and Z100 both have fans. I still think 4K on the X70 will be 30P 8bit 420 with a MXF wrapper to stay MXF file format which is likely why the delay since a mp4 wrapper is already available in the AX100.

We shall see.
Ron Evans

[Craig Seeman]

Speaking to someone at Sony at PhotoExpoPlus, they confirmed that the X70 4K/UHD codec will be the same as the AX100 so 4:2:0 8 bit is what to expect.

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Sony just keeps contributing to the rumor mill, they inform random people about delivery schedules and prices yet fail to announce anything official.

Noa

Sony have it printed on the X70 brochures that the upgrade will be available in the first six months of 2015. Which one of those six months? Anybodies guess I would imagine.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Noa Put]

If it's the within the first six months Sony personal should not say the first quarter, it's also still a guessing game what kind of 4 flavour the camera will be getting, guess we can ask the sony personal again :)

[David Dixon]

Well, we've had recent info that predicted a March to May timeframe, or 2nd quarter 2015. But we've also heard under-the-table word that the 4K is going to be the same as the AX100. As good as that is, it's now almost one year old technology. May 2015 would make it almost 1 1/2 years since the AX100 was announced. I just can't believe that in 1 1/2 years Sony can't improve on the 4K, at least in data rate.

Or, if they never planned to improve on it, why not include it from the first release? Maybe they really wanted that $2300 entry price...it sure is getting my attention.

But then why would they wait so long to add the 4K if it's not something new?

I've been really looking forward to this camera as an upgrade to my 2011 Canon XF100, but I'm increasingly cautious. I still haven't seen footage with tweaked picture settings and some grading in post, so I'm still hoping this camera has more potential than we've seen.

I may end up getting the camera to see how it fits my needs (with a return option), but I'm eyeing the Panasonic X1000 as well now. Three rings, 20x zoom, 60p 4K, etc., but I really cannot make my peace with buying another (essentially) 1/3 inch single chip camcorder. By the time we pay for 4K on the X70, the cost will not be that different, I'm thinking. My problem is budget - as an advanced amateur who does promo and interview videos for some local school groups and non-profits, I don't buy a camera every year or two - this will need to last me for 3-4 years, so I feel like it needs 4K (or I'd find a way to get a C100 mk2).

Back to the X70/X1000/XF100 thoughts - I've been told that a 1 inch chip @ 2.8-4.5 (X70) has shallower depth of field than a 1/3 inch @ 1.8-3.6, but I'm going to have to test that for myself.

Well, thanks for reading my ramblings.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

Noa

Sony have it printed on the X70 brochures that the upgrade will be available in the first six months of 2015. Which one of those six months? Anybodies guess I would imagine.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

As I mentioned, they promised that the AX1 and Z100 would have the firmware upgrade to make all the controls, interfaces work and also provide AVCHD by the summer of 2014 !!! Ver3 for the AX1 gives AVCHD but interfaces and buttons still do not work and the promised firmware for the Z100 for Long GOP still isn`t available. By the same token 4k for the X70 could be sometime in 2016 !!!

Ron Evans

[Christopher Young]

Sounds promising... not! But there again every update they have promised for the pro XDCam family has always taken place and on or about the scheduled release date. If it happens I will have a look at what the 4K offering is but whether I go for it, well that's still up in the air.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Christopher Young]

I had to cover a presser today shooting on PDW XDCam. Then I did a dangerous thing. The dangerous thing was I gave the journo I was working with the X70. He is totally not a cameraman. I said "Here, try and grab some overlay footage with this. I think a lot of you call it 'B' roll. Anyhow as the journo was a complete beginner I put the X70 on full auto running my modified PP4. The footage he shot was 1920 50i AVCHD as it had to go straight to the network after the shoot.

The venue was a total mixed light nightmare. Tungsten light with big picture windows with bright daylight and sunlight streaming in. Now bear in mind the the camera was in full auto mode with a totally inexperienced operator. The dangerous thing is that the footage he came back with was totally usable in most instances. Could do myself out of work if I'm not careful.

100MB download here if anyone wants to see how easy it is becoming for a neophyte to get reasonable footage.

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/7m4ikj

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney.

[Josh Bass]

some folks on "another forum" are complaining about the picture being "mushy" in many cases (i.e codec gets overwhelmed by complex things in the image like leaves on a tree etc. and pixellates). can anyone comment on that?

also complaints about the artificial sharpening being a little overt/"halos" around things, but image too soft when off. anyone have comments on that?

has anyone used both this cam and an ex1/3 extensively and can generally compare image quality between the two (colors, lens/sharpness, etc. )?

thanks