Sony FDR-AX100

Adriano Moroni · April 11th, 2014, 11:37 AM

Dear Mark, Ok, you are right but how the microphone of Sony AX100 can be effective if it is on the top of the handycam? I think I will need an additional mic. Is it right?

Piotr Wozniacki · April 11th, 2014, 01:26 PM

I downloaded one of those AX100 UHD clips from youtube to try it in Sony Vegas Pro 12. Mediainfo says it's an AVC format, but what is the wrapper (and so, filename extension)? When I set it to mp4 Vegas doesn't load it at all; when I rename it to avc (at which point Windows doesn't have a thumbnail for it and displays it as generic file so I cannot use Mediainfo any more) VP12 allows to put it on the TL, but doesn't show picture! What's even more strange when I allow VP12 to set project properties basing on that clip, the framerate is set to 100.000 in the project (Mediainfo says 23.976 fps).

It's possible that I got some edited clip, encoded with some strange settings - so please tell me what the properties of this camera's native 2160p files are? Isn't the X-AVCS in the mxf wrapper?

Ken Ross · April 11th, 2014, 01:46 PM

You never know how someone uploaded a clip. It could have been done as a raw clip from the camera or in some different format from their editing program. The files created from the camera are simple .mp4 files.

Ron Evans · April 11th, 2014, 01:47 PM

XAVC-S is a mp4 wrapper. XAVC is a MXF wrapper. Almost all the files you will see on the internet will have been edited and other than Vegas Pro 12 most NLE's will not export XAVC-S so they will all be transcoded to some other format. Some on Vimeo may be unedited but I have not checked.

So the original files should be XAVC-S in a mp4 wrapper from the FDR-AX1 or FDR-AX100. From the PXW-Z100 they will be XAVC in a mxf wrapper. If they are anything else they will definitely have been edited. Most NLE's would then export an AVC/h264 file in mp4 wrapper as the closest.

Vegas Pro 12 correctly identifies all frame rates from my FDR-AX1 in mp4 wrapper and will render in XAVC-S or XAVC.

Ron Evans

Ken Ross · April 11th, 2014, 01:56 PM

As you know Ron, Edius 7 will also import the XAVC-S and export as .mp4 too.

Ron Evans · April 11th, 2014, 03:24 PM

Edius is my main editor I mainly use Vegas for audio and yes Edius will edit XAVC-S and XAVC and will export mp4 just like Vegas but it will not export XAVC-S or even XAVC. Yet . mp4 is a wrapper so can use all sorts of encoding. There is a whole range of encoders in both Vegas and Edius for mp4 with various image sizes, frame rates and data rates.

Ron Evans

Steve Mullen · April 11th, 2014, 05:56 PM

"With all these little mics, beware of wind noise. If you will be working outside, your best choice is more likely to be the one that you can get the most effective wind muffler for, rather than the one with the very best sound quality in completely still air."

Totally, agree. I've had more audio ruined by wind than by bad mic audio quality. Foam doesn't work. You need a "dead cat" as provided with the Sony VG10.

The Sony ECM-XYST1M has the correct muffler. Only $180.

Stereo Microphone - Handycam Accessories Sony Store - Sony CA

Adriano Moroni · April 13th, 2014, 06:09 AM

Why Sony has has mounted a proprietary shoe? I have to put Sony mic only, no Rode, no Shure, etc. Why did Sony make it? Do some guys usea differet external mic? If you have mounted an external mic on AX100, which mic please?
Thanks

Ron Evans · April 13th, 2014, 06:17 AM

Remember this is a "consumer " camera and is set up for convenience. Not having any cable is better. If you want to use it in a professional manner you will have to allow for some adjustments. There is an XLR adapter you can buy and there is a new one being developed as well as another adapter for wireless product from Sony.

Ron Evans

Mark Rosenzweig · April 13th, 2014, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

I downloaded one of those AX100 UHD clips from youtube to try it in Sony Vegas Pro 12. Mediainfo says it's an AVC format, but what is the wrapper (and so, filename extension)? When I set it to mp4 Vegas doesn't load it at all; when I rename it to avc (at which point Windows doesn't have a thumbnail for it and displays it as generic file so I cannot use Mediainfo any more) VP12 allows to put it on the TL, but doesn't show picture! What's even more strange when I allow VP12 to set project properties basing on that clip, the framerate is set to 100.000 in the project (Mediainfo says 23.976 fps).

It's possible that I got some edited clip, encoded with some strange settings - so please tell me what the properties of this camera's native 2160p files are? Isn't the X-AVCS in the mxf wrapper?

This video can be downloaded and it is in the original format from the camera (straight from the camera). You have to be a (free) member of Vimeo.

The camera shoot XAVC S in an MP4 wrapper. It is just a high profile version of H.264. It also uses uncompressed PCM audio, but the Vimeo video has AAC to conform to the MP4 standard.

Cliff Totten · April 13th, 2014, 08:49 AM

Has anybody out there chroma key'd anything in 4k with their AX100?

I would imagine that the results would be extremely accurate. Especially if it were key'd in 4k with the intention of 1080 delivery.

Any thoughts?

Pat Reddy · April 13th, 2014, 09:22 AM

Another nice video, Mark. What frame rate?

Darren Levine · April 13th, 2014, 10:52 AM

finally got to go shoot a little bit with it.

i have to say, i didn't enjoy it much. Yes it's a consumer camera, but it's a bit too consumer if you can make sense of that.

The image it puts out IS very nice, rolling shutter while pretty strong still doesn't affect a good majority of shooting situations.

Both screens are nice... 3 NDs are nice... a proper flip out screen is nice... looks nice and sharp

But i just don't like how it's set up, probably because of the touch screen. and where's the image control? seriously just preset scenes and a general cinematone on or off?

It's odd to me that this seems to be a definitively consumer orientated camera, with just a bare few pro-ish details, and still cost 2 grand. That, and the image stabilization is just peculiar:

For standard stabilizer, it tells you that's for shooting in "stable" conditions. ok... and the active one is of course digital and says it turns on CIZ. But i've had what seems to be a bug: i was using digital zoom turned on (different from CIZ or so it seems?) and then i turned on active stabilizer, ok it modified the digital zoom, but then for some reason it now won't do any digital zoom with active stabilizer turned on. i've tried turning them both on and off and for some reason it won't give back any digital zoom with active stabilizer turned on.

And while the standard stablizer is an improvement over the RX10, at longer focal lenghts it really shows a struggle, and don't even try it with any digital zoom in, for some reason it degrades exponentially. quite odd. and why did they put in an utterly pointless amount of digital zoom? up to 160x, needless to say it looks terrible, and considering that along with the nightshot mode, it seems this thing was designed by peeping toms.

Looking through the footage though is indeed impressive, no doubt about that. sharp and pretty, but really not much way to get a flatter image out of it

Peter Siamidis · April 13th, 2014, 05:48 PM

Hey guys a semi noob question, because the sensor is 14mp and presumably some of it used for digital image stabilization, does that mean that the minute you start using any zoom you are basically not filming 4k anymore since you are cropping the sensor more and more as you zoom? I ask because I was doing some tests with the camera today trying to extract as much shallow dof as I can with it which meant re-framing at different zoom levels and comparing, and I definitely noticed the image getting softer as I got further out on the zoom range. I wasn't sure if what I was seeing was the result of hitting limits on the camera's optics or if it was because at the longer range I wasn't really filming 4k anymore because of the sensor crop.

Ken Ross · April 13th, 2014, 09:24 PM

Darren, I never ever use any digital zoom on any camera. That's just asking for trouble. Now the clear image zoom that's engaged with Active IS is clearly (pun intended) better than the pure digital zoom.

The image degradation that occurs as you increasingly move into the full reach of the zoom, is very minor. Visible, but minor. Couple that with the fact that less resolution is needed when you're fully zoomed, and the impact of CIZ is not very significant. The nice benefit is that you now have a nicely detailed 18x zoom.

But true digital zoom? Stay away! :)

As for your glitch, did you try removing the battery and then reinserting?

April 11th, 2014, 11:37 AM	#961
Adriano Moroni Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome Italy Posts: 676	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Dear Mark, Ok, you are right but how the microphone of Sony AX100 can be effective if it is on the top of the handycam? I think I will need an additional mic. Is it right? __________________ A lonesome traveler looking for lost tribes around the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdv...DrZCaaw/videos

April 11th, 2014, 01:26 PM	#962
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 I downloaded one of those AX100 UHD clips from youtube to try it in Sony Vegas Pro 12. Mediainfo says it's an AVC format, but what is the wrapper (and so, filename extension)? When I set it to mp4 Vegas doesn't load it at all; when I rename it to avc (at which point Windows doesn't have a thumbnail for it and displays it as generic file so I cannot use Mediainfo any more) VP12 allows to put it on the TL, but doesn't show picture! What's even more strange when I allow VP12 to set project properties basing on that clip, the framerate is set to 100.000 in the project (Mediainfo says 23.976 fps). It's possible that I got some edited clip, encoded with some strange settings - so please tell me what the properties of this camera's native 2160p files are? Isn't the X-AVCS in the mxf wrapper? __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

April 11th, 2014, 01:46 PM	#963
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 You never know how someone uploaded a clip. It could have been done as a raw clip from the camera or in some different format from their editing program. The files created from the camera are simple .mp4 files.

April 11th, 2014, 01:47 PM	#964
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 XAVC-S is a mp4 wrapper. XAVC is a MXF wrapper. Almost all the files you will see on the internet will have been edited and other than Vegas Pro 12 most NLE's will not export XAVC-S so they will all be transcoded to some other format. Some on Vimeo may be unedited but I have not checked. So the original files should be XAVC-S in a mp4 wrapper from the FDR-AX1 or FDR-AX100. From the PXW-Z100 they will be XAVC in a mxf wrapper. If they are anything else they will definitely have been edited. Most NLE's would then export an AVC/h264 file in mp4 wrapper as the closest. Vegas Pro 12 correctly identifies all frame rates from my FDR-AX1 in mp4 wrapper and will render in XAVC-S or XAVC. Ron Evans

April 11th, 2014, 01:56 PM	#965
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 As you know Ron, Edius 7 will also import the XAVC-S and export as .mp4 too.

April 11th, 2014, 03:24 PM	#966
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Edius is my main editor I mainly use Vegas for audio and yes Edius will edit XAVC-S and XAVC and will export mp4 just like Vegas but it will not export XAVC-S or even XAVC. Yet . mp4 is a wrapper so can use all sorts of encoding. There is a whole range of encoders in both Vegas and Edius for mp4 with various image sizes, frame rates and data rates. Ron Evans

April 11th, 2014, 05:56 PM	#967
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 "With all these little mics, beware of wind noise. If you will be working outside, your best choice is more likely to be the one that you can get the most effective wind muffler for, rather than the one with the very best sound quality in completely still air." Totally, agree. I've had more audio ruined by wind than by bad mic audio quality. Foam doesn't work. You need a "dead cat" as provided with the Sony VG10. The Sony ECM-XYST1M has the correct muffler. Only $180. Stereo Microphone - Handycam Accessories Sony Store - Sony CA __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c Last edited by Steve Mullen; April 11th, 2014 at 08:44 PM.

April 13th, 2014, 06:09 AM	#968
Adriano Moroni Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome Italy Posts: 676	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Why Sony has has mounted a proprietary shoe? I have to put Sony mic only, no Rode, no Shure, etc. Why did Sony make it? Do some guys usea differet external mic? If you have mounted an external mic on AX100, which mic please? Thanks __________________ A lonesome traveler looking for lost tribes around the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdv...DrZCaaw/videos

April 13th, 2014, 06:17 AM	#969
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Remember this is a "consumer " camera and is set up for convenience. Not having any cable is better. If you want to use it in a professional manner you will have to allow for some adjustments. There is an XLR adapter you can buy and there is a new one being developed as well as another adapter for wireless product from Sony. Ron Evans

April 13th, 2014, 08:49 AM	#971
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Has anybody out there chroma key'd anything in 4k with their AX100? I would imagine that the results would be extremely accurate. Especially if it were key'd in 4k with the intention of 1080 delivery. Any thoughts?

April 13th, 2014, 09:22 AM	#972
Pat Reddy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 288	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Another nice video, Mark. What frame rate?

April 13th, 2014, 10:52 AM	#973
Darren Levine Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: NJ/NYC Posts: 563	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 finally got to go shoot a little bit with it. i have to say, i didn't enjoy it much. Yes it's a consumer camera, but it's a bit too consumer if you can make sense of that. The image it puts out IS very nice, rolling shutter while pretty strong still doesn't affect a good majority of shooting situations. Both screens are nice... 3 NDs are nice... a proper flip out screen is nice... looks nice and sharp But i just don't like how it's set up, probably because of the touch screen. and where's the image control? seriously just preset scenes and a general cinematone on or off? It's odd to me that this seems to be a definitively consumer orientated camera, with just a bare few pro-ish details, and still cost 2 grand. That, and the image stabilization is just peculiar: For standard stabilizer, it tells you that's for shooting in "stable" conditions. ok... and the active one is of course digital and says it turns on CIZ. But i've had what seems to be a bug: i was using digital zoom turned on (different from CIZ or so it seems?) and then i turned on active stabilizer, ok it modified the digital zoom, but then for some reason it now won't do any digital zoom with active stabilizer turned on. i've tried turning them both on and off and for some reason it won't give back any digital zoom with active stabilizer turned on. And while the standard stablizer is an improvement over the RX10, at longer focal lenghts it really shows a struggle, and don't even try it with any digital zoom in, for some reason it degrades exponentially. quite odd. and why did they put in an utterly pointless amount of digital zoom? up to 160x, needless to say it looks terrible, and considering that along with the nightshot mode, it seems this thing was designed by peeping toms. Looking through the footage though is indeed impressive, no doubt about that. sharp and pretty, but really not much way to get a flatter image out of it __________________ C100 - GH4 - NYC Shooter www.DarrenLevine.com

April 13th, 2014, 05:48 PM	#974
Peter Siamidis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA Posts: 148	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Hey guys a semi noob question, because the sensor is 14mp and presumably some of it used for digital image stabilization, does that mean that the minute you start using any zoom you are basically not filming 4k anymore since you are cropping the sensor more and more as you zoom? I ask because I was doing some tests with the camera today trying to extract as much shallow dof as I can with it which meant re-framing at different zoom levels and comparing, and I definitely noticed the image getting softer as I got further out on the zoom range. I wasn't sure if what I was seeing was the result of hitting limits on the camera's optics or if it was because at the longer range I wasn't really filming 4k anymore because of the sensor crop.

April 13th, 2014, 09:24 PM	#975
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Darren, I never ever use any digital zoom on any camera. That's just asking for trouble. Now the clear image zoom that's engaged with Active IS is clearly (pun intended) better than the pure digital zoom. The image degradation that occurs as you increasingly move into the full reach of the zoom, is very minor. Visible, but minor. Couple that with the fact that less resolution is needed when you're fully zoomed, and the impact of CIZ is not very significant. The nice benefit is that you now have a nicely detailed 18x zoom. But true digital zoom? Stay away! :) As for your glitch, did you try removing the battery and then reinserting?