Sony FDR-AX100

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Peter Siamidis

... or I can say how driver support on OSX is terrible compared to Windows 8.1 from our experience on the same laptop, etc, etc, but what's the point. My experience with OSX is quite frankly that's it's limited and less stable than Windows 8.1 which works like a champ.

I'll admit I have stayed at 10.7.5 because it is super stable. (But, I have no actual data that says 10.9.2 isn' fine.) And, it's true that most of the hate for 8/8.1 comes from Metro. But, even if one can go directly to the Start menu, all that extra code and the hooks from Metro to/from Windows are still inside Windows. And, it looks likes MS now wants to make Metro apps run under Windows. They just won't give-up the notion that devices for Metro don't sell -- and folks don't want it in Windows.

But even if Windows were rock solid it has two huge problems for me: viruses that kill my friends computers on a regular basis and a 1990's GUI. It's butt ugly. And, MS has spread this ugly to Office. To me, MS products just scream "we don't give a damn because we make a ton of money because our OS must be on every computer not sold by Apple."

Moreover, Apple OS is free. I'd have to spend money to buy 8.1 just before 9 arrives. It's a no win game. Oh -- and there's not a single bit of Windows-only software that I would ever want or use. The big video guys are on the Mac.

[Mark Watson]

Originally Posted by Derek McCabe

I have to jump in here and make a simple observation...

Editing 4K video.. on ANY laptop? Seriously? A laptop is the wrong tool for editing video.
Sure, go ahead.. tell us which apps and on which OS work and don't work... but if you are editing 4K video, it should be on a fast workstation with a 30" screen.

I could go on and on about what makes a good workstation... SSD drives, tons or RAM, etc....

Laptop users please note.. you can't put 2 video cards in a laptop!

I got a Sager laptop way back in 2008 that came with dual video cards, in SLI configuration. They do exist. Also, SSD drives can be installed in any laptop (well, not sure about Apple Products), just take out the HDD and install the SDD, same fit, etc. That 2008 laptop had 3 HDDs and now I've got it running with one HDD and two SDD in RAID. About the RAM thing... I have 16GB in my newer 2011 Sager laptop, but I believe you can get them with up to 64GB now. I only edit on laptops since I got the Sager. I just don't agree with your form-factor limitation for 4K. The camera under discussion doesn't even have that high of a data rate. I sometimes shoot to Prores 422 or uncompressed. I use Adobe PP to edit those, on my laptop.

Mark

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

there's not a single bit of Windows-only software that I would ever want or use. The big video guys are on the Mac.

I"m trying to understand what this has to do with the Sony FDR-AX100? Not trying to be smart but Mac/windows discussions are getting a bit old now.

Now about editing 4k on a laptop, another windows based solution would be Edius which can use proxy files as well, I can edit anything I"d like in that way on my I5 lenovo business laptop that has just minimal specs, it is only too slow to do the converting part which I do on a more powerfull desktop pc and then just export my edit to the laptop; once I have done my editing with the laptop in the field I can just reimport those changes to my desktop pc for more critical adjustments like colorcorrecting or checking for any focus issues on a big screen, and finally to export the whole thing to web, dvd, blu-ray and so on.


the only thing I would ask myself is if this would be a good solution to edit 4K files, for reviewing purpose I would like to have a 4K screen connected as well if needed, I would find it difficult judging 4K focus for instance on a 15 inch laptopscreen.

[Al Gardner]

Steve, that's quite a tale you tell. I have 8 windows laptops and 3 windows desktops and 1 Mac. Half of them have windows 8 and the other half windows 7 They all run beautifully and I haven't had a virus since 2003.

As far as metro you don't have to use it if you don't want o. Just resort back to the old start menu. It takes about a good hour to learn windows 8 and it's rock solid.

Every problem that you have on a PC you can bet you have on a Mac. And if you don't believe that just google it. A good for instance would be to google "macbook overheating". And from there you can google any problem you find on a PC and it shows up on Macs in large numbers.

This Mac Vs PC has got to be the silliest argument in the world.

[Derek McCabe]

Originally Posted by Peter Siamidis

but for general video work I can't be chained to a desk, I need to be able to work wherever.

so you do all your "general editing"... inside a car using a laptop in the parking lot at Wal-Mart? Hey whatever works for you... my projects allow me to do all my editing... after we are done shooting... in a comfortable room.. with a workstation and calibrated monitor and speakers. Nice leather chair too. Much easier than any laptop configuration.

[Derek McCabe]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

the only thing I would ask myself is if this would be a good solution to edit 4K files, for reviewing purpose I would like to have a 4K screen connected as well if needed, I would find it difficult judging 4K focus for instance on a 15 inch laptopscreen.

I think the ones posting about their fantastic laptop editing solutions... like the small monitors.

[Derek McCabe]

Originally Posted by Mark Watson

I got a Sager laptop...

Look at real world 4K video tests... go ahead and put 50 layers of 4K video and tell me how fast is plays on any laptop.

Pushing Apple's new Mac Pro and Final Cut Pro X to their limits - fcp.co

I didn't mean to hijack this thread about the Sony FDR-AX100 camcorder... editing 4K video is a totally different topic, maybe this should be a new thread.

[Derek McCabe]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Not trying to be smart but Mac/windows discussions are getting a bit old now.

One needs to be careful when looking at video cards specs. Many cards are geared towards "gaming"... and work wonderful for those applications.

When Apple created the new Mac Pro, it had ONE market really in mind, and that was 4K video editing. If you are NOT editing video, there is really no reason the buy the newest MacPro. It actually does not get very good benchmarks on "games". It is the COMBINATION of working with Final Cut Pro and the new dual FirePro D700 GPU cards that make the workstation scream.

So if you want to compare "apples and oranges"... oh I couldn't resist.

A new workstation for editing is just like any other tool. I don't let a brand name determine which gear I use, I use the best tool for the price. The new MacPro needs to be seen as a hardware AND a software solution. If you don't like using Final Cut Pro, then no reason to get the new MacPro. But if you do like the software, then there really is one best choice right now for running Final Cut Pro — and that is the new Mac Pro. Maybe there might be a laptop with dual FirePro D700 coming soon, but right now it doesn't exist.

[Noa Put]

One needs to be careful when looking at video cards specs

I don't even need a dedicated videocard with edius pro as it utilizes the onboard gpu to render blur-ray format out twice realtime and it handles all native 1080p 50p files in realtime, even several layers of multicam without any conversion, the reason why I commented about these Mac/windows discussions is that they quickly turn into bashing eachother which is starting to happen here, they don't contribute to anything.

With my current pc set up I know I could handle about anything I trow at it, even high bitrate 4k files, only not in it's native format, for that I would have to convert to a intermediate file, the only downside to that would be the extra disc space needed.

This looks about the same when Hdv started to appear, a lot of pc systems at that time where choking on it and you needed expensive rendercards to save some export times, pc hardware development goes so fast soon 4k will be dealt with as easy as you would handle avchd now.

so you do all your "general editing"... inside a car using a laptop in the parking lot at Wal-Mart? Hey whatever works for you...

You have to respect the fact Derek that not everyone can work from inside a cozy office, many need portable solutions that work in the field, I am curious though about userfeedback on different workable laptop/software solutions that make 4K editing possible in reraltime. Is it not that the sony ax100 has a lower bitrate 4K codec? Should that not make editing easier?

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

The big video guys are on the Mac.

I guess Edius Professional, used by a number of network affiliates, are not one of 'the big guys'. There are others but I find these generalizations a bit overdone. The main video editor used on the Mac is FCP. Period.

Most others simply don't run on a Mac and they are, of course, dismissed out of hand by Mac fans as not being as good. If it doesn't run on a Mac it's not worth considering. This is kind of silly.

I'd like to get back to the AX100 which I think was the topic of this thread. But let me end with this, years ago it WAS true, Mac was the only game in town for stable video editing and FC was the only good editing program. For those that still believe this, it's time to come out of your cave, it is simply untrue. Living in the past is unproductive.

Choices abound on the windows platform (unlike the Mac) and not just choices, excellent choices. Both the Mac and the PC are, IMO, equally adept at video editing and it comes down to which program do you prefer and what will it run on.

Back to the AX100, please.

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Derek McCabe

so you do all your "general editing"... inside a car using a laptop in the parking lot at Wal-Mart? Hey whatever works for you... my projects allow me to do all my editing... after we are done shooting... in a comfortable room.. with a workstation and calibrated monitor and speakers. Nice leather chair too. Much easier than any laptop configuration.

Guess you've never heard of a hotel room. Some people shoot and travel. You really need to understand that not everyone shoots like you or has your preferences.

Oh, and not everyone puts '50 layers of 4K video' in their editor.

[Ron Evans]

One last comment about the PC/Mac. At the moment they are all Intel PC's. Stability depends on what software is running and how up to date the drivers are loaded. I like making my own PC's so my choice of course is the PC. I usually make to the best price point in the cycle and my current PC started as an i7 2600K and now has a i7 3770K it has been running stable for several years with NO problems. As a PC with only editing software loaded it only goes to the internet for program updates I have a totally separate PC for mail and WEB browsing loaded with virus protection and Malware programs etc.

I have loaded Adobe Production Suite CS6, Vegas 11 and 12, Edius Pro7 as well as several other programs like TMPGenc, Sound Forge, Spectral Layers. All work happily together without crashing. Vegas and Edius will use the Intel QUicksync for fast encoding. For Edius this means a BLuray compliant AVC file from the timeline in about half the realtime. A 2 hour timeline in under 1 hour output on my PC.



Back to 4K editing. I have had my FDR-AX1 for about 4 months and have found the following. I shoot 60P XAVC-S 150Mbps.

Pros:
Beautiful picture when viewed at 1920x1080 from the camera or downscaled in software.
Dynamic range appears larger.
Crop re-framing works as I wanted it to in good light. My only reason for getting the camera.

Cons:
Low light performance is not good, a stop or two slower than my other cameras.
Focusing is even more critical than HD.
Compute requirements are large. Vegas will playback with reduced preview resolution at full frame rate. Edius will playback at close to full frame rate with buffer hovering at 2.
Converting to intermediate file also takes a long time , just like it did when HDV and AVCHD appeared !!
Decoding the LongGOP takes cores so I think a new 8 core or dual Xeon is my next build !!

Ron Evans

[Dennis Freeman]

Has anyone tried an SDXC card with a capacity greater than 64 gig? Perhaps 128 gig? If so, do they work as reliably as the 64 gig cards do?
Thanks,
Denny

[Peter Siamidis]

Originally Posted by Derek McCabe

so you do all your "general editing"... inside a car using a laptop in the parking lot at Wal-Mart? Hey whatever works for you... my projects allow me to do all my editing... after we are done shooting... in a comfortable room.. with a workstation and calibrated monitor and speakers. Nice leather chair too. Much easier than any laptop configuration.

No silly not in a car, I edit right at a video shoot at whatever location I happen to be. I've used various homes here in LA for filming, but I also own a second property as well that I use as my film house and I will do editing right there while waiting for the next girls to arrive, and also since the footage is fresh in my mind after a shoot it's often easiest and fastest to edit the footage immediately after a shoot wherever I may be. It's also a way for others to see the footage right then and there on my laptop if they are curious. When I come home I toss the edited footage to my gaming pc which renders all my projects overnight automatically via my Vegas Pro scripts in all the formats I need in the directory structure I need. Yes I love Vegas Pro, it saves me so much time :)

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Back to the AX100, please.

I've still been playing around with the camera, overall the image is just gorgeous! I do wish it's low light performance was better though, it doesn't feel like it's significantly better in that regard to my NX30. I tried the small Sony stereo add on mic as well which I happen to have, this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BJSYV4S

...and it works well with this camera. I also just orderded the Zunow WCX-08 wide conversion lens which has a 62mm thread and hence can fit the AX100. I always need a wide conversion lens for situations that are really tight, hopefully this one wont degrade the 4k image too much.

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Peter Siamidis

I use as my film house and I will do editing right there while waiting for the next girls to arrive.....

Not touching that one!!! ;)

Originally Posted by Peter Siamidis

I've still been playing around with the camera, overall the image is just gorgeous! I do wish it's low light performance was better though, it doesn't feel like it's significantly better in that regard to my NX30. I tried the small Sony stereo add on mic as well which I happen to have, this one:

Amazon.com: Sony ECM-XYST1M Stereo Microphone (Black): Camera & Photo

...and it works well with this camera. I also just orderded the Zunow WCX-08 wide conversion lens which has a 62mm thread and hence can fit the AX100. I always need a wide conversion lens for situations that are really tight, hopefully this one wont degrade the 4k image too much.

I agree, it is a gorgeous image. But I suspect 4K is light hungry and the low light imagery is not the cleanest I've seen. Still good, but not class-leading. I need to do an A/B with my RX10 again and see how they compare with what is essentially the same sensor.

Pete, it seems that people that are using that mike do like it.