film-like at DVinfo.net

Ali Husain · June 8th, 2007, 12:06 PM

is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the images out of the SI camera are the most outstandingly filmlike of any video camera on these boards and some other ones that are not here. even the amateur footage of cars and street shots looks great. maybe SI just has better software image processing tools and LUT's whose curves i'm biased towards? what is going on here? the difference to me is not small; it's huge.

Teodor Miljevic · June 8th, 2007, 01:24 PM

I totally agree with you Ali. I downloaded the Raw material and boy is it good. You could handle it the same way as a digital photo from a D-slr. TRy it for yourself. Download the rawclips just apply an s-curve and put on some unsharp mask and it's better that anything I've gotten out of my Hd100 whatever process I would have put it through (ok thats natural the thing I wanted to say is that it is so much easier to grade then hdv.)

Bob Grant · June 8th, 2007, 06:36 PM

Several factors come into play.
You can use real cine lenses.
The latitude of the digital raw 'negative'.
The resolution of the imager.
The size of the imager and top shelf cine style lenses gets you a shallow DOF without the image going through spinning ground glass.
On Set look management with non destructive LUTs.

We don't have our camera as yet to verify this first hand but I'd say you can make the image as film like or not as you desire. Not being locked into one look is a huge bonus.

Tim Polster · June 8th, 2007, 09:47 PM

I know this is a film-centric camera, but I am disappointed that it will not fit my needs coming from using broadcast style video cameras.

I would buy it over any other in its price range just to use it as an HD camera.

All of that dynamic range!

Most of what I shoot requires a zoom, which means ENG zoom servo lenses.

Upon calling the company, it was confirmed that there is no place to plug servo lenses into the body.

The price and look of this camera is a great value.

What a shame the inclusion of ENG HD lenses is not part of the mix.

Ari Presler · June 8th, 2007, 11:11 PM

There WILL now be a 12-pin Hirose to power the HD Zooms :-) !

Dont forget to order the B4 lens mount option...

Jason Rodriguez · June 9th, 2007, 12:06 AM

Hi Ali and everyone else,

Thanks for the kind comments!

Our goal is to also get some more content online in the coming weeks for both instruction and viewing. Stay tuned :)

Tim Polster · June 9th, 2007, 08:56 AM

Ari,

Thanks for the news.

Just to be clear, this lens in this link will work?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._20x_2_3_.html

I know it is the bottom of the HD lens barrel, but just thought I would check.

Thanks

Jason Rodriguez · June 9th, 2007, 05:55 PM

We've spec'd out the 12-pin hirose for the lens servo motor, but we haven't installed it yet, but it will be on the production model cameras. That said, saying it "will work" is in-theory right now, we will have to test and make sure that these lenses do work. Angenieux for instance has been very open with us about the pin-outs for their lenses, so I would assume since their HD servo's are designed to work on Sony, Panasonic, etc., that we should not have any problems with other manufacturer's lenses as well which are designed to work on the same camera. So you can be pretty assured that Angenieux lenses will work, but if someone else throws in some "secret sauce" into their lens, that that might take us a little more work to figure out, which would mean downtime for you.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is we are doing what we can to support these lenses, but don't run out and purchase anything just yet, and spend your hard-earned cash until we've done some tests and can tell you for sure what works and what doesn't. As noted, all these lenses *should* work since they are conforming to the same standard. But there's no rush . . . we'll do some tests and let everyone know what works and what doesn't. Then you can spend your money wisely :)

Tim Polster · June 10th, 2007, 07:48 AM

Thanks,

I look forward to the test results

Rohan Dadswell · June 10th, 2007, 04:29 PM

"There WILL now be a 12-pin Hirose to power the HD Zooms"

Excellent, I take it that this will be on the body of the SI-2k and not the mini head. (so I'll still have to make up a box to use a B4 zoom with the camera split - Oh well :-)

Jason Rodriguez · June 10th, 2007, 06:20 PM

Yes, this is on the body of the SI-2K, not the MINI head.

Bob Grant · June 11th, 2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohan Dadswell

"There WILL now be a 12-pin Hirose to power the HD Zooms"

Excellent, I take it that this will be on the body of the SI-2k and not the mini head. (so I'll still have to make up a box to use a B4 zoom with the camera split - Oh well :-)

I assume you want to be able to remote control the B4 lens on the mini on say a crane?

If so I'm pretty certain they're already boxes that do that, no doubt for a price of course.

Rohan Dadswell · June 11th, 2007, 04:27 PM

Hi Bob

Yes you are right, it is for some crane work. I like the idea of being able to just put the mini head & lens at the end of a jib arm. A lot less weight to carry around & set up. There are control boxes around to do the job but as you say they do cost and I've already got the zoom control & cable.
I'll just have to make a power box for the lens, it's only 5 volts - I think ;-)

June 8th, 2007, 12:06 PM	#1
Ali Husain Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 141	film-like is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the images out of the SI camera are the most outstandingly filmlike of any video camera on these boards and some other ones that are not here. even the amateur footage of cars and street shots looks great. maybe SI just has better software image processing tools and LUT's whose curves i'm biased towards? what is going on here? the difference to me is not small; it's huge.

June 8th, 2007, 01:24 PM	#2
Teodor Miljevic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 77	I totally agree with you Ali. I downloaded the Raw material and boy is it good. You could handle it the same way as a digital photo from a D-slr. TRy it for yourself. Download the rawclips just apply an s-curve and put on some unsharp mask and it's better that anything I've gotten out of my Hd100 whatever process I would have put it through (ok thats natural the thing I wanted to say is that it is so much easier to grade then hdv.)

June 8th, 2007, 06:36 PM	#3
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Several factors come into play. You can use real cine lenses. The latitude of the digital raw 'negative'. The resolution of the imager. The size of the imager and top shelf cine style lenses gets you a shallow DOF without the image going through spinning ground glass. On Set look management with non destructive LUTs. We don't have our camera as yet to verify this first hand but I'd say you can make the image as film like or not as you desire. Not being locked into one look is a huge bonus.

June 8th, 2007, 09:47 PM	#4
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I know this is a film-centric camera, but I am disappointed that it will not fit my needs coming from using broadcast style video cameras. I would buy it over any other in its price range just to use it as an HD camera. All of that dynamic range! Most of what I shoot requires a zoom, which means ENG zoom servo lenses. Upon calling the company, it was confirmed that there is no place to plug servo lenses into the body. The price and look of this camera is a great value. What a shame the inclusion of ENG HD lenses is not part of the mix.

June 8th, 2007, 11:11 PM	#5
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	There WILL now be a 12-pin Hirose to power the HD Zooms :-) ! Dont forget to order the B4 lens mount option...

June 9th, 2007, 12:06 AM	#6
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Hi Ali and everyone else, Thanks for the kind comments! Our goal is to also get some more content online in the coming weeks for both instruction and viewing. Stay tuned :)

June 9th, 2007, 08:56 AM	#7
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Ari, Thanks for the news. Just to be clear, this lens in this link will work? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._20x_2_3_.html I know it is the bottom of the HD lens barrel, but just thought I would check. Thanks

June 9th, 2007, 05:55 PM	#8
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	We've spec'd out the 12-pin hirose for the lens servo motor, but we haven't installed it yet, but it will be on the production model cameras. That said, saying it "will work" is in-theory right now, we will have to test and make sure that these lenses do work. Angenieux for instance has been very open with us about the pin-outs for their lenses, so I would assume since their HD servo's are designed to work on Sony, Panasonic, etc., that we should not have any problems with other manufacturer's lenses as well which are designed to work on the same camera. So you can be pretty assured that Angenieux lenses will work, but if someone else throws in some "secret sauce" into their lens, that that might take us a little more work to figure out, which would mean downtime for you. I guess the point I'm trying to make is we are doing what we can to support these lenses, but don't run out and purchase anything just yet, and spend your hard-earned cash until we've done some tests and can tell you for sure what works and what doesn't. As noted, all these lenses should work since they are conforming to the same standard. But there's no rush . . . we'll do some tests and let everyone know what works and what doesn't. Then you can spend your money wisely :)

June 10th, 2007, 07:48 AM	#9
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Thanks, I look forward to the test results

June 10th, 2007, 04:29 PM	#10
Rohan Dadswell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canberra Australia Posts: 228	"There WILL now be a 12-pin Hirose to power the HD Zooms" Excellent, I take it that this will be on the body of the SI-2k and not the mini head. (so I'll still have to make up a box to use a B4 zoom with the camera split - Oh well :-)

June 10th, 2007, 06:20 PM	#11
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Yes, this is on the body of the SI-2K, not the MINI head.

June 11th, 2007, 04:27 PM	#13
Rohan Dadswell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canberra Australia Posts: 228	Hi Bob Yes you are right, it is for some crane work. I like the idea of being able to just put the mini head & lens at the end of a jib arm. A lot less weight to carry around & set up. There are control boxes around to do the job but as you say they do cost and I've already got the zoom control & cable. I'll just have to make a power box for the lens, it's only 5 volts - I think ;-)