35mm 2k chips at DVinfo.net

Thomas English · November 17th, 2006, 08:07 AM

surely it s easier to develop a 2k 35mm sized chip with better lattitude and colour rendering rather than a 2/3inch 2k chip, trying to fit all those pixels into one place.

No one can handle the data rate s off 4k, for now there is no point in really entertaining it. If they can afford 4k then we may as well shoot on 35mm film and get a 4k scan and have all the lattitude, flexibility and ease of lighting that comes with film. Every time I do a Telecine it is to SD or HD (sometimes) and it looks fantastic and sharp. What is really desirable is dynamic range, this is where the magic comes when you give your colourist all the options in the grade.

So surely if you could get chunky 35mm chips with only 2000 pixels on there they would be better. Although I understand all the chip developers R&D is probably going on the more commercially viable 2/3rd in market.

So I would like to see a 2k 35mm chip that runs on the same ethernet 100mbs system as you have for this 2/3rd inch chip.

The annoyance as well with 2/3rd inch chip is its smaller than s16. It really hit me the other day as I did a tape job (varicam) and my widest lens was an 8mm. 8mm is wide on s16 but on 2/3rd inch... its really not a wide lens!

Anyway, that s my 2pence worth on the ways of the chips

N.B. great its going to have a run button

Solomon Chase · November 17th, 2006, 09:04 AM

There is no sensor R&D. They are using the altasens chip. (of course there might be for a NEW camera, but not the current SI-2k)

Custom fabricating and developing a 2k 35mm sensor would actually be more expensive, first because it would be custom, second because the sensor yield per silicon wafer would be smaller.

Doesn't mean I don't wish it was 35mm sized as well ;)
Or atleast that I could use some fast glass like a scheider-krueznach f0.95 c-mount. (Because of the microlenses on altasens sensor, you can only go down to about about f1.3 I believe) Larger the aperature, the shallower the DOF (though some lenses just suck fully open)

Thomas English · November 17th, 2006, 09:23 AM

sorry, I don t believe you read my post

"Although I understand all the chip developers R&D is probably going on the more commercially viable 2/3rd in market."

I do not believe silicon imaging is a chip developer as everyone knows they buy their chips in from altasens or other manufacturers.

"So surely if you could get chunky 35mm chips with only 2000 pixels on there they would be better."

does that say custom fabricate? why do people post responses on these forums without reading the threads.

My main intention with using 35mm sensor is to use all that funky glass, shift and tilts, lens babie etc etc

Yes a fast lens at f1 would be interesting but all the lenses available (except the leica which on;y works on range finders) however every time i ve tested anything like that it has been too soft.

they are pretty much all 50mm for a 35mm gate, i can not see it being a problem covering a 2/3rd inch chip at all, although you are left with a very fast 50mm lens. try it.

Solomon Chase · November 17th, 2006, 10:27 AM

not so much lack of reading as dyslexic tendencies. I read developer as "development". very sorry!

It still have to be a custom sensor though, no?

Silicon actually does have a camera called the SI-4000F that is 2k with almost 25mm x 25mm imaging area, and takes 35mm nikon f-mount. The only thing is it is monochrome, and they would have to custom order a color version (bayer pattern) Also I don't know how suitable it is for digital cinema in terms of dynamic range, blooming, etc.

And I think the major draw in using fast glass on a 2/3inch chip for me is simulating 35mm DOF. A large (f1.0) aperature on a 35mm chip is going to give you WAY too shallow DOF to manage in terms of focus pulling.

There are some really fast lenses for 2/3 c-mount.. f0.75, f0.85, f0.95, f1.0 etc. (a few of them aren't really suitable for cinema though)

Thomas English · November 17th, 2006, 11:11 AM

sorry for being narky solomon,

I am interested by what c-mount f1 lenses you find as effects lenses are often where some of the art is.

Are we going to be able to use any of silicon imagings heads on a dvr? am I going to be able to shoot infa red using a specialised infa red head? and high speed heads? can they work on the DVR?

I shot a sophie ellis bexter music video on a similar system provided by pirate TV in the UK. it looks cool at 1000fps and could shoot for around 8 seconds before filling the buffer. It s on my showreel on www.dustfx.com (the one with the breaking glass)

Will there be any options for using any of these other chips connected via ethernet. How much scope will there be.

Ari Presler · November 17th, 2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas English

Are we going to be able to use any of silicon imagings heads on a dvr? am I going to be able to shoot infa red using a specialised infa red head?.

We offer the SI-2K MINI with a monochrome sensor so you can get Near IR response on all pixles and even attach an image intensifier (just like they are used by several unmentionable clients protecting our homeland).

Just another tool in our bag of tricks ;-) !

November 17th, 2006, 08:07 AM	#1
Thomas English New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 24	35mm 2k chips surely it s easier to develop a 2k 35mm sized chip with better lattitude and colour rendering rather than a 2/3inch 2k chip, trying to fit all those pixels into one place. No one can handle the data rate s off 4k, for now there is no point in really entertaining it. If they can afford 4k then we may as well shoot on 35mm film and get a 4k scan and have all the lattitude, flexibility and ease of lighting that comes with film. Every time I do a Telecine it is to SD or HD (sometimes) and it looks fantastic and sharp. What is really desirable is dynamic range, this is where the magic comes when you give your colourist all the options in the grade. So surely if you could get chunky 35mm chips with only 2000 pixels on there they would be better. Although I understand all the chip developers R&D is probably going on the more commercially viable 2/3rd in market. So I would like to see a 2k 35mm chip that runs on the same ethernet 100mbs system as you have for this 2/3rd inch chip. The annoyance as well with 2/3rd inch chip is its smaller than s16. It really hit me the other day as I did a tape job (varicam) and my widest lens was an 8mm. 8mm is wide on s16 but on 2/3rd inch... its really not a wide lens! Anyway, that s my 2pence worth on the ways of the chips N.B. great its going to have a run button __________________ thomas english www.thomasenglish.co.uk

November 17th, 2006, 09:23 AM	#3
Thomas English New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 24	sorry, I don t believe you read my post "Although I understand all the chip developers R&D is probably going on the more commercially viable 2/3rd in market." I do not believe silicon imaging is a chip developer as everyone knows they buy their chips in from altasens or other manufacturers. "So surely if you could get chunky 35mm chips with only 2000 pixels on there they would be better." does that say custom fabricate? why do people post responses on these forums without reading the threads. My main intention with using 35mm sensor is to use all that funky glass, shift and tilts, lens babie etc etc Yes a fast lens at f1 would be interesting but all the lenses available (except the leica which on;y works on range finders) however every time i ve tested anything like that it has been too soft. they are pretty much all 50mm for a 35mm gate, i can not see it being a problem covering a 2/3rd inch chip at all, although you are left with a very fast 50mm lens. try it. __________________ thomas english www.thomasenglish.co.uk

November 17th, 2006, 11:11 AM	#5
Thomas English New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 24	sorry for being narky solomon, I am interested by what c-mount f1 lenses you find as effects lenses are often where some of the art is. Are we going to be able to use any of silicon imagings heads on a dvr? am I going to be able to shoot infa red using a specialised infa red head? and high speed heads? can they work on the DVR? I shot a sophie ellis bexter music video on a similar system provided by pirate TV in the UK. it looks cool at 1000fps and could shoot for around 8 seconds before filling the buffer. It s on my showreel on www.dustfx.com (the one with the breaking glass) Will there be any options for using any of these other chips connected via ethernet. How much scope will there be. __________________ thomas english www.thomasenglish.co.uk

November 17th, 2006, 09:04 AM	#2
Solomon Chase Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Woodstock, Georgia Posts: 154	There is no sensor R&D. They are using the altasens chip. (of course there might be for a NEW camera, but not the current SI-2k) Custom fabricating and developing a 2k 35mm sensor would actually be more expensive, first because it would be custom, second because the sensor yield per silicon wafer would be smaller. Doesn't mean I don't wish it was 35mm sized as well ;) Or atleast that I could use some fast glass like a scheider-krueznach f0.95 c-mount. (Because of the microlenses on altasens sensor, you can only go down to about about f1.3 I believe) Larger the aperature, the shallower the DOF (though some lenses just suck fully open)

November 17th, 2006, 10:27 AM	#4
Solomon Chase Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Woodstock, Georgia Posts: 154	not so much lack of reading as dyslexic tendencies. I read developer as "development". very sorry! It still have to be a custom sensor though, no? Silicon actually does have a camera called the SI-4000F that is 2k with almost 25mm x 25mm imaging area, and takes 35mm nikon f-mount. The only thing is it is monochrome, and they would have to custom order a color version (bayer pattern) Also I don't know how suitable it is for digital cinema in terms of dynamic range, blooming, etc. And I think the major draw in using fast glass on a 2/3inch chip for me is simulating 35mm DOF. A large (f1.0) aperature on a 35mm chip is going to give you WAY too shallow DOF to manage in terms of focus pulling. There are some really fast lenses for 2/3 c-mount.. f0.75, f0.85, f0.95, f1.0 etc. (a few of them aren't really suitable for cinema though)