The Mini Only?

Tyson Perkins · November 15th, 2006, 02:37 PM

What does that say about the possibility of a Macbook Pro then?

Jason Rodriguez · November 15th, 2006, 10:44 PM

BTW, just as a note, there's more than just speed involved in our certified systems . . . there's also parts compatibility and a consistency of platform between what we have and have tested, and what the end-user would use in the field.

This has nothing to-do with "cheap" or "expensive A-list" parts, and has everything to-do with a combination of motherboards, processors, chipsets, expansion cards, and drivers for those components that have been well tested and certified for integration at a full system level.

I can tell you that I've put together systems that "should" work and they haven't. Call it FUD or whatever you would like to call these gentle warnings, but there are simply too many variations out on the market to spend the time to support every possible system combination.

Furthermore the problem with Apple and the MacPro's is that there is no support for bootcamp. If something is not working correctly, there is no support from Apple like there would be from Dell. If something is incompatible with the drivers, etc., on the Mac systems, and you're running bootcamp, you're on your own as far as Apple is concerned. That means we become the end-of-the-line for computer system support, and we can't afford to take on that role of IT management should you need a replacement, driver fix, etc.

Ultimately we feel our job is to provide you with a system that you can purchase off-the-shelf and know it works. We are for open-standards though, and so we are allowing purchasers to use whatever computer they like, as long as it's within the minimum specs. But, please realize, we cannot guarantee the stability of your custom systems or pre-purchased systems that are not certified by us. Furthermore you cannot get full software support from us without a certified system. If for whatever reason your system turns out buggy with the software, or you're having difficulties, and we cannot reproduce those errors on our certified systems in-house, then we cannot help you. It will be up to you to re-purchase parts that do work, or get a certified system.

We do not feel this is unfair or overly harsh. Editing companies have been doing this for years, and that's in post where down-time can be bad, but no-where near as bad as the clock ticking on-set. How much more important is stability a requirement on the set when your entire day (or days) of shooting is at stake? Again, this might be termed FUD by some, but we simply can't hold ourselves responsible when non-certified systems are in-use and fail to perform to the high-standards you require as shooters.

Now even with an uncertified system, if the problem is with the camera head itself, you will naturally get full suport for the camera hardware. But we cannot support you at the complete system-level if you do not have a certified system.

Tyson Perkins · November 16th, 2006, 02:19 AM

Will you ever test the Macbook Pro, because after all the interest ive had in the purchase of this camera (there has been a hell of alot) but this in-compatibility with the Macbook Pro might deter me away from Silicon Imaging ultimately.

Steve Nordhauser · November 16th, 2006, 07:41 AM

Tyson,
Cineform is working feverishly to complete both Mac OS support and FCP support for their software. I would think that if most people bought the SI-2K full recording camera, the real issue is whether Macs are supported in post. Since the Mini is removable from the SI-2K and can still be used with the DVR body as the recording device, real-time recording should become less of an issue. By buying the full SI-2K, you have the most compatible, stable, upgradable solution we offer and still have the flexibility of using a Mini as a POV camera, fully battery operated.

I will concede that there will be times that a laptop will be useful. Most recently, with the close ties we will have to Iridas Speedgrade OnSet, you will want to be able to move single frames to a laptop for creating .look files in OnSet and have a way of uploading them back to the camera. We are working on incorporating wireless ethernet into the camera for such an operation. This would be 802.11g so it could not support live external recording (answering that question before it is asked).

We will consider the Macbook Pro in the future, I think. There is certainly demand for it but keep in mind that it would be at the expense of more R&D - new camera designs and added features.

By the way, I think the main reasons that Atomic used the Minis connected to workstations over the SI-2K configuration (with the Mini remoted) were:
- They only had one DVR - a prototype
- The DVR had a noisy fan in it (again, prototype)
- They already owned two Wafians

Regards,
Steve

Tyson Perkins · November 16th, 2006, 02:05 PM

Thank you very much Steve,

So I see from the reading these posts - that running with Macpro and a Macbook Pro only, the best option for me would be to wait another year or two when the software is stable and there are no compatibility issues.

Thank you for all your help.

Steve Nordhauser · November 16th, 2006, 04:14 PM

OK guys, we had a meeting based on your input. In the near future we will get one model Mac and do a certification on it.

Again, what we do is dependent on your input. This camera has its foundation on DVInfo.
Thanks for the discussion on this.
-Steve

John Benton · November 16th, 2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Nordhauser

OK guys, we had a meeting based on your input. In the near future we will get one model Mac and do a certification on it.
-Steve

Yay !
Thanks you guys,
I know you rather not sell the Mini (as opposed to the Major) but it means a lot when you listen...
hopefull it will be shown at an east coast Abel Cinetek demo!
Ha!

Thomas English · November 16th, 2006, 06:25 PM

This is good news. As much mac support as possible.

80% of my clients edit on FCP
20% Avid

none on premier

So as many mac s hanging out in your office the better.

I have got a vested interest any as I have a macbook pro anyway. It would be nice to be able to stream straight off the head onto my laptop. However I would not like to see your dept. get bogged down in guaranteeing compatibility and support of an entirely new and unfriendly system from the ground up and would rather see resources concentrated on researching new chips, ensuring there s a run button, getting a view finder, improving the UI and making sure everything is grip proof and real shoot work flow compatible. Let s face it nobodies going to turn up on a paid job with a head and a laptop.

N.B. Please make sure there is a run button

Ari Presler · November 16th, 2006, 11:41 PM

We are actively pursuing a run button solution for direct connection to the MINI!

Tyson Perkins · November 17th, 2006, 01:31 AM

That is great news guys. I think it is a credit to you that you take so much input from the members of this forum - this what sets you apart from other companies, your ability to listen and comment, instead of taking it as rubbish.
I thought I was getting on your nerves, I know I would have gotten on mine, with my incessant questioning and yet you actually took my questions and discussed them seriously, and subsequently answered them - this gives me alot of confidence coming into a likely future with this company.

You are a credit to the film industry.

Ari Presler · November 17th, 2006, 07:50 AM

Tyson,

Thank you for the compliments!

As you can see from the thread, many of our discussions are held in an open forum for all to see, not behind closed doors. This means you may see differing opinions from our team and know what goes into making our decisions which effect the priorities, timelines and features of the product. We have commited to begin delivering MINI's in December. If some want to have Christmikah gifts before New Years we have to be very prudent in this process.

Just remember, one of the most valuable aspect of our product is that it is easily upgradable :-) !

Karina Nemuhina · December 2nd, 2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Rodriguez

Sure, Dan Dianconau has alread done this!

Pls Jason, could you pls tell us more about how to get the Fujinons geared for a follow focus mechanism by Dan Dianconau.
Thanks

Thomas English · December 3rd, 2006, 05:12 AM

an easy option would be to send your lens to PStechniks in germany or RP lens company

You can buy loads of cheap rings from dive photography shops, find one of them that fits and simply put it on and tighten the screw.

Jason Rodriguez · December 3rd, 2006, 01:24 PM

I'm not sure of the state of Dan's company . . . supposedly there's some licensing issues, etc. that need to be sorted out at his company internally.

You should probably contact him directly. I don't have his email address, but I think you can search for him over at DVXuser.com. Or maybe Ari has his email address and can post it here.

Larry Gebhardt · December 4th, 2006, 10:03 AM

Hello everyone.

I just joined your "club" after lurking around for a year or two...Great Forum!

I have been shooting film for more years than I care to admit, and have a ton of 35mm and 16mm gear. Several lens tech guys I have worked with in the past have added follow focus gears to a number of my lenses. Paul Duclose (Duclose Lenses in No. Hollywood...just down the street from Clairmont Camera where he was once their head lens guy) has done most of them. He custom machines and attaches to the lens a delrin 32 pitch (I think...or what ever the standard pitch is) gear for about $100.00 US. His number is 818-763-6844. I hope that helps...he is a very good technician.

Larry Gebhardt

November 16th, 2006, 07:41 AM	#49
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	Tyson, Cineform is working feverishly to complete both Mac OS support and FCP support for their software. I would think that if most people bought the SI-2K full recording camera, the real issue is whether Macs are supported in post. Since the Mini is removable from the SI-2K and can still be used with the DVR body as the recording device, real-time recording should become less of an issue. By buying the full SI-2K, you have the most compatible, stable, upgradable solution we offer and still have the flexibility of using a Mini as a POV camera, fully battery operated. I will concede that there will be times that a laptop will be useful. Most recently, with the close ties we will have to Iridas Speedgrade OnSet, you will want to be able to move single frames to a laptop for creating .look files in OnSet and have a way of uploading them back to the camera. We are working on incorporating wireless ethernet into the camera for such an operation. This would be 802.11g so it could not support live external recording (answering that question before it is asked). We will consider the Macbook Pro in the future, I think. There is certainly demand for it but keep in mind that it would be at the expense of more R&D - new camera designs and added features. By the way, I think the main reasons that Atomic used the Minis connected to workstations over the SI-2K configuration (with the Mini remoted) were: - They only had one DVR - a prototype - The DVR had a noisy fan in it (again, prototype) - They already owned two Wafians Regards, Steve __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com

November 16th, 2006, 04:14 PM	#51
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	OK guys, we had a meeting based on your input. In the near future we will get one model Mac and do a certification on it. Again, what we do is dependent on your input. This camera has its foundation on DVInfo. Thanks for the discussion on this. -Steve __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com Last edited by Steve Nordhauser; November 17th, 2006 at 04:31 AM.

November 16th, 2006, 06:25 PM	#53
Thomas English New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 24	This is good news. As much mac support as possible. 80% of my clients edit on FCP 20% Avid none on premier So as many mac s hanging out in your office the better. I have got a vested interest any as I have a macbook pro anyway. It would be nice to be able to stream straight off the head onto my laptop. However I would not like to see your dept. get bogged down in guaranteeing compatibility and support of an entirely new and unfriendly system from the ground up and would rather see resources concentrated on researching new chips, ensuring there s a run button, getting a view finder, improving the UI and making sure everything is grip proof and real shoot work flow compatible. Let s face it nobodies going to turn up on a paid job with a head and a laptop. N.B. Please make sure there is a run button __________________ thomas english www.thomasenglish.co.uk

November 16th, 2006, 11:41 PM	#54
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	Run Button We are actively pursuing a run button solution for direct connection to the MINI!

December 3rd, 2006, 05:12 AM	#58
Thomas English New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 24	an easy option would be to send your lens to PStechniks in germany or RP lens company You can buy loads of cheap rings from dive photography shops, find one of them that fits and simply put it on and tighten the screw. __________________ thomas english www.thomasenglish.co.uk

November 15th, 2006, 02:37 PM	#46
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	What does that say about the possibility of a Macbook Pro then?

November 15th, 2006, 10:44 PM	#47
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	BTW, just as a note, there's more than just speed involved in our certified systems . . . there's also parts compatibility and a consistency of platform between what we have and have tested, and what the end-user would use in the field. This has nothing to-do with "cheap" or "expensive A-list" parts, and has everything to-do with a combination of motherboards, processors, chipsets, expansion cards, and drivers for those components that have been well tested and certified for integration at a full system level. I can tell you that I've put together systems that "should" work and they haven't. Call it FUD or whatever you would like to call these gentle warnings, but there are simply too many variations out on the market to spend the time to support every possible system combination. Furthermore the problem with Apple and the MacPro's is that there is no support for bootcamp. If something is not working correctly, there is no support from Apple like there would be from Dell. If something is incompatible with the drivers, etc., on the Mac systems, and you're running bootcamp, you're on your own as far as Apple is concerned. That means we become the end-of-the-line for computer system support, and we can't afford to take on that role of IT management should you need a replacement, driver fix, etc. Ultimately we feel our job is to provide you with a system that you can purchase off-the-shelf and know it works. We are for open-standards though, and so we are allowing purchasers to use whatever computer they like, as long as it's within the minimum specs. But, please realize, *we cannot guarantee the stability of your custom systems or pre-purchased systems that are not certified by us. Furthermore you cannot get full software support from us without a certified system*. If for whatever reason your system turns out buggy with the software, or you're having difficulties, and we cannot reproduce those errors on our certified systems in-house, then we cannot help you. It will be up to you to re-purchase parts that do work, or get a certified system. We do not feel this is unfair or overly harsh. Editing companies have been doing this for years, and that's in post where down-time can be bad, but no-where near as bad as the clock ticking on-set. How much more important is stability a requirement on the set when your entire day (or days) of shooting is at stake? Again, this might be termed FUD by some, but we simply can't hold ourselves responsible when non-certified systems are in-use and fail to perform to the high-standards you require as shooters. Now even with an uncertified system, if the problem is with the camera head itself, you will naturally get full suport for the camera hardware. But we cannot support you at the complete system-level if you do not have a certified system.

November 16th, 2006, 02:19 AM	#48
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	Will you ever test the Macbook Pro, because after all the interest ive had in the purchase of this camera (there has been a hell of alot) but this in-compatibility with the Macbook Pro might deter me away from Silicon Imaging ultimately.

November 16th, 2006, 02:05 PM	#50
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	Thank you very much Steve, So I see from the reading these posts - that running with Macpro and a Macbook Pro only, the best option for me would be to wait another year or two when the software is stable and there are no compatibility issues. Thank you for all your help.

November 17th, 2006, 01:31 AM	#55
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	That is great news guys. I think it is a credit to you that you take so much input from the members of this forum - this what sets you apart from other companies, your ability to listen and comment, instead of taking it as rubbish. I thought I was getting on your nerves, I know I would have gotten on mine, with my incessant questioning and yet you actually took my questions and discussed them seriously, and subsequently answered them - this gives me alot of confidence coming into a likely future with this company. You are a credit to the film industry.

November 17th, 2006, 07:50 AM	#56
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	Tyson, Thank you for the compliments! As you can see from the thread, many of our discussions are held in an open forum for all to see, not behind closed doors. This means you may see differing opinions from our team and know what goes into making our decisions which effect the priorities, timelines and features of the product. We have commited to begin delivering MINI's in December. If some want to have Christmikah gifts before New Years we have to be very prudent in this process. Just remember, one of the most valuable aspect of our product is that it is easily upgradable :-) !

December 3rd, 2006, 01:24 PM	#59
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	I'm not sure of the state of Dan's company . . . supposedly there's some licensing issues, etc. that need to be sorted out at his company internally. You should probably contact him directly. I don't have his email address, but I think you can search for him over at DVXuser.com. Or maybe Ari has his email address and can post it here.

December 4th, 2006, 10:03 AM	#60
Larry Gebhardt Tourist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Marina del Rey, CA Posts: 2	Follow Focus gears Hello everyone. I just joined your "club" after lurking around for a year or two...Great Forum! I have been shooting film for more years than I care to admit, and have a ton of 35mm and 16mm gear. Several lens tech guys I have worked with in the past have added follow focus gears to a number of my lenses. Paul Duclose (Duclose Lenses in No. Hollywood...just down the street from Clairmont Camera where he was once their head lens guy) has done most of them. He custom machines and attaches to the lens a delrin 32 pitch (I think...or what ever the standard pitch is) gear for about $100.00 US. His number is 818-763-6844. I hope that helps...he is a very good technician. Larry Gebhardt