Lens included in package? at DVinfo.net

Carlos Osterling · November 8th, 2006, 11:04 PM

Do you have plans to include any PL mount lens with your package? I have been trying to find some lenses online but no luck... does anybody know where could I find some new PL mount lens? Thanks in advance guys.

Paul Nordin · November 9th, 2006, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos Osterling

does anybody know where could I find some new PL mount lens?

If you are looking to find inexpensive deals on lenses, you probably would be better off looking for C-Mount lenses. But if you are really wanting PL-Mount lenses, Zeiss or Cooke are the best out there. I'm guessing that one of the best matches for the SI-2K with a PL-Mount will be the Zeiss DigiPrimes which are designed from the ground up for HD on 2/3" cameras. They ain't cheap though.

Valeriu Campan · November 9th, 2006, 02:11 AM

Aren't the 'digiprimes' designed to work with the prism separation systems for the 3 chips?
And they are not cheap.
Good quality lenses for 16mm should be good.

Rohan Dadswell · November 9th, 2006, 02:12 AM

The Zeiss DigiPrimes are designed for 3 CCD prism cameras with a B4 mount so they wont really work without an (expensive) adapter. Zeiss make some great primes with PL mount for film cameras – the good news is that they are cheaper than the Digiprimes, the bad news is that a set will still cost more than the SI camera. Illumina make a set (6) of super 16 PL prime lenses for about $16,500 and Canon make a couple of good super 16 zoom lenses.
C-mount lenses are cheaper – the Fijinons will cost about $2,000 for four. They are industrial lenses so aren’t the friendliest to work with but the image quality should be alright.
Good glass costs

Rohan

Paul Nordin · November 9th, 2006, 10:06 AM

Indeed, I stand corrected on the digiprimes: B4 mount (though I have seen a set converted to PL), and designed for 2/3" w/beam-splitting prism.

Stuart Brontman · November 9th, 2006, 11:14 AM

Speaking of lenses for the camera, does anyone have a suggestion for a zoom lens that would approximate the range of a typical ENG lens (ie. 19x6.7)?

Thanks.

Joe Carney · November 9th, 2006, 11:27 AM

BandPro has stated the Zeiss DigiPrimes and DigiZooms will not work with the SI2k. They are designed to work with 3chip cameras with Prisms.

An excellent quality set of prime lenses for a lot less money than Zeiss are
the Optar Illumina. They are s16mm and will work with the SI2K with PL mount adaptor.

I've read good things about them at various forums.
Here is the web site for the only 'authorized' distributor in the world. they are manufactured in Russia. I believe the site is run/owned by the actual developer of the lenses who lives in FL.

http://www.optarillumina.info/optar.html He offers them in Arri or PL mount. If you are going to buy a complete set and soon, ask him about his ebay price.

If you see something on KievCamera, they haven't updated their site. They do not sell them.

Some 16mm lenses for Bolex are designed to work with a prism for some of their newer cameras, I don't think those would work with the SI2K either, but not sure.

Carlos Osterling · November 9th, 2006, 09:37 PM

I can tell there's still some degree of misinformation. It would be nice to hear from the SI people about this. Thanks.

Valeriu Campan · November 10th, 2006, 05:30 AM

Carlos,
I don't think that there is any missinformation, but more missunderstanding.

As stated in many posts on this site and elswhere, the B4 mount lenses or any other lens designed for 3 CCD/prisms combo are not suited for single chip cameras. They could possible be used with expensive adaptors and many strings attached, but the simple truth is to try to look at lenses designed to project an image on a similar sized window/gate with a diameter around or just above 11mm that the 2/3 chip has. Lenses for 35mm motion picture cameras or 35mm stills cameras could be used, BUT their are designed to deliver a larger image with a different 'circle of confusion' for different magnification factors. The 'inexpensive' stills camera lenses are not the focus puller's best friend: they tend to breath more, their focus scale is between 90 - 120 degrees, while cine lenses rarely have the scale under 300 degrees. Also, most of the stills lenses have between 5-7 aperture blades, which do not necessarily make a nice 'bokeh' and turn strong highlights in strange geometrical shapes (must admit that the worse offender is one of the Zeiss cine (series I or II) lenses that have only three blades - sharp & YUKKK!).

A lot of the future users of RED ONE or SI camera will have to swallow the bitter pill of reality. To buy a lens kit for a camera with this resolution is in the same price range as the camera body itself if not more and I am talking about a sharp enough lens kit - not a very good lens kit, although the 16mm lenses are much more affordable and easier to find.

As cinematographer I choose a lens or a lens kit because:
- it delivers a specific look, with a certain sharpness/softness/contrast combination suited for a certain project
- I need an extra stop, two more hours a day to shoot a scene and the lighting and crew budget outstrips by a huge margin the cost of hiring THAT lens
- a.s.o...

Professional photographers use top of the range glass and change the DSLR bodies almost every 2 years when technology moves on and/or the clients and their specific market require the extra quality.

So, keep an eye for good glass and hang to it if you can find it.

Joe Carney · November 10th, 2006, 09:56 AM

Valeriu, excellent point which is why I mentioned the Optars. You get a set of 6 very fast new primes for under 13K. The guy who owns the distribution rights is willing to deal too. Good used Zeiss MKII would be great if you can find them for a good price.

I read on another forum that buying can actually be cheaper than renting.
If you take care of the set, they hold their value when you decide to sell. Just a higher cost of entry.

Something to think about.

Ernest Kwok · November 10th, 2006, 01:26 PM

u can get the optar lenses at below 8k with some dealers like kievcamera.com ...cheers

Valeriu Campan · November 10th, 2006, 04:21 PM

Welcome to the forum Ernest and thank you for a good pointer.

Joe Carney · November 10th, 2006, 08:45 PM

Ernest, Kiev no longer sells them and is not an authorized distributer. I called their office in Atlanta and got that info straight from the salesman.

Ernest Kwok · November 11th, 2006, 03:29 PM

Thanks for the warm welcome,Valeriu and the update on lens, joe... juz happen to browse thru k*evcamera..was looking at those t/s medium format lenses..i think there's a couple of resellers going for under 8k if u do a go*gle on it...(* they don't pay me so no full names)

Jason Rodriguez · November 11th, 2006, 11:10 PM

B4-lenses, as has been listed here on this list and in our FAQ on the website, are not a good idea . . . not without the Abekas adapter.

November 8th, 2006, 11:04 PM	#1
Carlos Osterling Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Weston, Florida Posts: 34	Lens included in package? Do you have plans to include any PL mount lens with your package? I have been trying to find some lenses online but no luck... does anybody know where could I find some new PL mount lens? Thanks in advance guys.

November 9th, 2006, 10:06 AM	#5
Paul Nordin New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 20	Indeed, I stand corrected on the digiprimes: B4 mount (though I have seen a set converted to PL), and designed for 2/3" w/beam-splitting prism. __________________ ____________________ El Mundo Bueno Studios "a world of good music" San Francisco, CA www.EMBStudios.com ____________________

November 9th, 2006, 11:27 AM	#7
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	BandPro has stated the Zeiss DigiPrimes and DigiZooms will not work with the SI2k. They are designed to work with 3chip cameras with Prisms. An excellent quality set of prime lenses for a lot less money than Zeiss are the Optar Illumina. They are s16mm and will work with the SI2K with PL mount adaptor. I've read good things about them at various forums. Here is the web site for the only 'authorized' distributor in the world. they are manufactured in Russia. I believe the site is run/owned by the actual developer of the lenses who lives in FL. http://www.optarillumina.info/optar.html He offers them in Arri or PL mount. If you are going to buy a complete set and soon, ask him about his ebay price. If you see something on KievCamera, they haven't updated their site. They do not sell them. Some 16mm lenses for Bolex are designed to work with a prism for some of their newer cameras, I don't think those would work with the SI2K either, but not sure. __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

November 10th, 2006, 05:30 AM	#9
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Keep an eye for good glass and hang to it if you can find it Carlos, I don't think that there is any missinformation, but more missunderstanding. As stated in many posts on this site and elswhere, the B4 mount lenses or any other lens designed for 3 CCD/prisms combo are not suited for single chip cameras. They could possible be used with expensive adaptors and many strings attached, but the simple truth is to try to look at lenses designed to project an image on a similar sized window/gate with a diameter around or just above 11mm that the 2/3 chip has. Lenses for 35mm motion picture cameras or 35mm stills cameras could be used, BUT their are designed to deliver a larger image with a different 'circle of confusion' for different magnification factors. The 'inexpensive' stills camera lenses are not the focus puller's best friend: they tend to breath more, their focus scale is between 90 - 120 degrees, while cine lenses rarely have the scale under 300 degrees. Also, most of the stills lenses have between 5-7 aperture blades, which do not necessarily make a nice 'bokeh' and turn strong highlights in strange geometrical shapes (must admit that the worse offender is one of the Zeiss cine (series I or II) lenses that have only three blades - sharp & YUKKK!). A lot of the future users of RED ONE or SI camera will have to swallow the bitter pill of reality. To buy a lens kit for a camera with this resolution is in the same price range as the camera body itself if not more and I am talking about a sharp enough lens kit - not a very good lens kit, although the 16mm lenses are much more affordable and easier to find. As cinematographer I choose a lens or a lens kit because: - it delivers a specific look, with a certain sharpness/softness/contrast combination suited for a certain project - I need an extra stop, two more hours a day to shoot a scene and the lighting and crew budget outstrips by a huge margin the cost of hiring THAT lens - a.s.o... Professional photographers use top of the range glass and change the DSLR bodies almost every 2 years when technology moves on and/or the clients and their specific market require the extra quality. So, keep an eye for good glass and hang to it if you can find it.

November 10th, 2006, 09:56 AM	#10
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Valeriu, excellent point which is why I mentioned the Optars. You get a set of 6 very fast new primes for under 13K. The guy who owns the distribution rights is willing to deal too. Good used Zeiss MKII would be great if you can find them for a good price. I read on another forum that buying can actually be cheaper than renting. If you take care of the set, they hold their value when you decide to sell. Just a higher cost of entry. Something to think about. __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

November 9th, 2006, 02:11 AM	#3
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Aren't the 'digiprimes' designed to work with the prism separation systems for the 3 chips? And they are not cheap. Good quality lenses for 16mm should be good.

November 9th, 2006, 02:12 AM	#4
Rohan Dadswell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canberra Australia Posts: 228	The Zeiss DigiPrimes are designed for 3 CCD prism cameras with a B4 mount so they wont really work without an (expensive) adapter. Zeiss make some great primes with PL mount for film cameras – the good news is that they are cheaper than the Digiprimes, the bad news is that a set will still cost more than the SI camera. Illumina make a set (6) of super 16 PL prime lenses for about $16,500 and Canon make a couple of good super 16 zoom lenses. C-mount lenses are cheaper – the Fijinons will cost about $2,000 for four. They are industrial lenses so aren’t the friendliest to work with but the image quality should be alright. Good glass costs Rohan

November 9th, 2006, 11:14 AM	#6
Stuart Brontman Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 228	Speaking of lenses for the camera, does anyone have a suggestion for a zoom lens that would approximate the range of a typical ENG lens (ie. 19x6.7)? Thanks.

November 9th, 2006, 09:37 PM	#8
Carlos Osterling Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Weston, Florida Posts: 34	I can tell there's still some degree of misinformation. It would be nice to hear from the SI people about this. Thanks.

November 10th, 2006, 01:26 PM	#11
Ernest Kwok New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 6	u can get the optar lenses at below 8k with some dealers like kievcamera.com ...cheers

November 10th, 2006, 04:21 PM	#12
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Welcome to the forum Ernest and thank you for a good pointer.

November 10th, 2006, 08:45 PM	#13
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Ernest, Kiev no longer sells them and is not an authorized distributer. I called their office in Atlanta and got that info straight from the salesman. __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

November 11th, 2006, 03:29 PM	#14
Ernest Kwok New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 6	Thanks for the warm welcome,Valeriu and the update on lens, joe... juz happen to browse thru kevcamera..was looking at those t/s medium format lenses..i think there's a couple of resellers going for under 8k if u do a gogle on it...(* they don't pay me so no full names)

November 11th, 2006, 11:10 PM	#15
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	B4-lenses, as has been listed here on this list and in our FAQ on the website, are not a good idea . . . not without the Abekas adapter.