Motion Control at DVinfo.net

Joe Carney · October 16th, 2006, 10:34 AM

It's probably too late to get this in, but this camera could lend itself to motion control work (Star Wars..VFX stuff), using the camera head, ethernet and no body...not even needing sound...
What would be nice, is a simple option to play back just captured clips in reverse. Don't know how hard that would be to put into the software interface, so not expecting it first round.

Jason Rodriguez · October 16th, 2006, 12:32 PM

Unfortunately that won't make it to the first software release . . . while the feature may seem very "simple" on the surface, there's actually some deep codec-level adjustments that would have to be made first in order for this to even be possible.

Joe Carney · October 16th, 2006, 12:46 PM

Thanks, I didn't think it was simple, just don't know how hard it is.

Jason Rodriguez · October 17th, 2006, 05:55 AM

Yeh, it's a low-level issue . . . it's not so much getting and displaying frames in reverse (like uncompressed), but actually decoding the stream in reverse, and furthermore decoding it in real-time (given enough time, you can do anything, but the need to maintain normal playback rates puts limitations on what one can do on modern hardware), which is quite a different story, and will take some re-working at the codec-level.

Joe Carney · October 17th, 2006, 10:03 AM

I imagine the typical backwards effects shot, shouldn't last over 3 or 4 seconds.
I think even an SD rez rough might work.
Or possible, an option that records sequential files instead of Cineform, just for effects shots. Then send the good ones off to post.

Ari Presler · October 17th, 2006, 09:31 PM

Joe,

1.) Do you need the reverse playback to occur as you take each shot or can this be done in another application sitting on the recorders network?

2.) What is max time duration for such a shot?

Joe Carney · October 18th, 2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Presler

Joe,

1.) Do you need the reverse playback to occur as you take each shot or can this be done in another application sitting on the recorders network?

2.) What is max time duration for such a shot?

1. No, not as it occurs, just right after it's saved to disk, to check it to make sure it looks like what they want. I'm assuming they would have a powerful PC running the SI capture software (Like spoon did). After that they could choose to send it to the next stop in the pipeline. Also, many of the effects shots will be forward without need to check it in reverse, but export options will still be important.

2. Most effects and animation shots never go over 7 seconds but occasionally might go to 10 ,like a long closeup simulated dolly shot of a space ship. This should't be confused with a 'scene' which may contain several effects shots.

I'm hoping you can add output to Cineon, Dpx or OpenExr... so they could immediately be placed into the pipeline once approved. Create or provide a simple app to play the files forward or backward instead of trying to modify your capture app or codec. For modifying the image, the end users can provide their own software. They may even provide their own playback software, but it would be good customer service to offer one, even a good free one.

The same capture PC would probably have software to control the motion arm holding the camera and remote control software/hardware (maybe wireless) to adjust focus. If that could be integrated into the capture app at some later date, that would be awesome.

Check out the new open source media player from jahshaka.org for an example, they are claiming the ability to play back up to 4K.

I'm asking about this, because I don't think production companies want to be forced to have ProspectHD licenses all over the place, especially in widely dispersed locations around the world.

Thanks for responding to my ideas.

Ari Presler · October 18th, 2006, 01:39 PM

Joe,

Excellent input. We have discussed it internally. We will plan on offering a dedicated player with reverse capability. We will also have an ap with a full render engine for conversion to a variety of formats.

Today, you can already grab your short clip and export it as a sequnce of DNG's within the application. Develop them, colorize them and convert them today as you please and put into any player. We will just offer another product which will be more seamless.

We have a new strategic partnership in the works, which will enable these capabilities in a very short time. Look for some major announcements in the next two weeks :-) !

October 16th, 2006, 10:34 AM	#1
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Motion Control It's probably too late to get this in, but this camera could lend itself to motion control work (Star Wars..VFX stuff), using the camera head, ethernet and no body...not even needing sound... What would be nice, is a simple option to play back just captured clips in reverse. Don't know how hard that would be to put into the software interface, so not expecting it first round. __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

October 16th, 2006, 12:46 PM	#3
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Thanks, I didn't think it was simple, just don't know how hard it is. __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

October 17th, 2006, 10:03 AM	#5
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	I imagine the typical backwards effects shot, shouldn't last over 3 or 4 seconds. I think even an SD rez rough might work. Or possible, an option that records sequential files instead of Cineform, just for effects shots. Then send the good ones off to post. __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

October 17th, 2006, 09:31 PM	#6
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	Reverse Playback Joe, 1.) Do you need the reverse playback to occur as you take each shot or can this be done in another application sitting on the recorders network? 2.) What is max time duration for such a shot?

October 18th, 2006, 01:39 PM	#8
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	Player Ap Joe, Excellent input. We have discussed it internally. We will plan on offering a dedicated player with reverse capability. We will also have an ap with a full render engine for conversion to a variety of formats. Today, you can already grab your short clip and export it as a sequnce of DNG's within the application. Develop them, colorize them and convert them today as you please and put into any player. We will just offer another product which will be more seamless. We have a new strategic partnership in the works, which will enable these capabilities in a very short time. Look for some major announcements in the next two weeks :-) !

October 16th, 2006, 12:32 PM	#2
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Unfortunately that won't make it to the first software release . . . while the feature may seem very "simple" on the surface, there's actually some deep codec-level adjustments that would have to be made first in order for this to even be possible.

October 17th, 2006, 05:55 AM	#4
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Yeh, it's a low-level issue . . . it's not so much getting and displaying frames in reverse (like uncompressed), but actually decoding the stream in reverse, and furthermore decoding it in real-time (given enough time, you can do anything, but the need to maintain normal playback rates puts limitations on what one can do on modern hardware), which is quite a different story, and will take some re-working at the codec-level.