When will the mini be available? at DVinfo.net

Andy Walton · August 4th, 2006, 03:37 AM

Hi, when will a production unit be on sale, I am interested in adapting it to use on a Polecam ( www.polecam.com )?

John Benton · August 24th, 2006, 08:42 AM

Yes I am also interested in the Mini.
I was talking to someone associated with the upcoming film CRANK and they were discribing the director using a stripped down camera (recording to a seperate system) to do some amazing stuff.
Mini (teathered to a laptop) will give you amazing flexability.
I would be tempted to forgo more res (rumors, I know) for this form factor
but...
---Then the only monitor is the laptop screen?
---Pricing/ availability
--- what type of lens mounts (no PL & no B4 ----I think I recall David Newman saying he bought an older 16mm on eBay)
---What are the other drawbacks of the mini V. full production model?

Thanks Jason,
-J

Dean Harrington · August 28th, 2006, 07:56 PM

My understanding is that the censor and lens on the full kit is the mini and can be detached.
Is that correct?

Jason Rodriguez · August 29th, 2006, 06:28 AM

Quote:

---Then the only monitor is the laptop screen?

No, you can also have a touchscreen monitor, external LCD monitor, etc., and we're working on a viewfinder . . . all of those can be attatched to the video output of the laptop and just use a two-screen mode on the graphics chipset (like if you were using a video projector, etc.)

Quote:

---Pricing/ availability

We're working on finalizing all that (since there are a lot of different configurations and packages you can get), but at NAB we mentioned $12.5K

Quote:

--- what type of lens mounts (no PL & no B4 ----I think I recall David Newman saying he bought an older 16mm on eBay)

You choice really . . . just no B4-mount since those lenses aren't designed for single-sensors. But so far we have a cheaper c-mount and PL-mount (David was using older, inexpensive c-mounts)

Quote:

---What are the other drawbacks of the mini V. full production model?

Mainly form-factor and the useability of that form-factor. While being tethered to a laptop via a gig-e cable is pretty cool, you're not as portable as with a fully mobile configuration like the full production body. But the mini head is removeable from the larger unit, so you're not loosing anything, just gaining.

John Benton · August 29th, 2006, 09:08 AM

Jason, that's great!
Will you be at NAB NY in Oct?
And the Full body that was shown at this past NAB was not the finalized one correct?
I wonder about the weight of it (for my glidecam set up...)

Sorry to pester you with so many questions, but I can't wait to see this and get my hands on it !

Thanks,
John

Jason Rodriguez · August 29th, 2006, 02:02 PM

No, that wasn't the final body design at all, just a prototype . . . we're doing a complete re-design of that, and it's going to be a very sturdy/industrial-strength plastic construction (at least that's the plan right now, and we're not talking chinsy toy plastic, but Mil-spec stuff), so it should be very light.

Rohan Dadswell · August 29th, 2006, 03:15 PM

So Jason, when do we get to see the new production design (and specs) ? and when does it become avalible for purchase - I know Sept was mentioned but as that is only a few days away I'm guessing that may not hapen.

cheers
Rohan

Warren Jobe · August 30th, 2006, 11:55 PM

Can someone help me understand the lens issues involved here? I don't quite understand how a lens can be "not designed for single sensors" instead of for imaging in general. It would seem that in order to focus an image, the lens must converge the image to a single plane, either the film plane/focusing screen/sensor or the plane of the prism block, which then separates the colors.

Vignetting aside, how can a lens not be designed for single sensors?

Bob Grant · August 31st, 2006, 03:12 AM

I'm certainly no expert on lens design however a lens for a 3CCD camera does not focus on the prism, it has to focus through the prism and onto the CCDs.
Also from my vague understanding of lens design issues, lenses designed to work through a prism make some correction for what happens to the light as it passes through the prism.
Hopefully someone better versed in the dark science of lens design will give a better and more detailed explaination.

Warren Jobe · August 31st, 2006, 12:20 PM

Yes, focusing "through" the prism makes sense. Thanks.

Rohan Dadswell · September 4th, 2006, 02:19 AM

I have been using a Canon B4 zoom lens with a Optex B4 to PL adapter on an Anton A-Minima super 16 camera with good results. Have not noticed any focus or CA problems, although the image is not as sharp as using a prime lens.

Brian Drysdale · September 4th, 2006, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohan Dadswell

I have been using a Canon B4 zoom lens with a Optex B4 to PL adapter on an Anton A-Minima super 16 camera with good results. Have not noticed any focus or CA problems, although the image is not as sharp as using a prime lens.

Is this the Abakus adapter? They used to make them for Optex.

http://www.abakus-scientific.com/Format_Converters.htm

There's some optics in their adapter.

Jason Rodriguez · September 4th, 2006, 06:39 PM

Yes, the Abakus adapter should work very nicely, and you will need something like that (with compesation optics), if you want to use 3-CCD lenses on film-style single-sensor cameras.

Rohan Dadswell · September 5th, 2006, 03:36 AM

The Abakus adapter looks the same as the Optex that I have used although the Optex only seemed to have one lens and not "a system of high quality optics". The Optex lens widens out the image so it will cover the larger size of the super 16 frame, something that would not be needed with the SI camera - It may have done other things to the image as well, I don't know.

Unless you already own a Hi Def B4 lens I would just spend my hard earned cash on a good Super 16 zoom lens (or even a set of primes) as these adapters aren't that cheap.

To get back to the original post - I would love to see a SI camera on a Polecam - it would be an awesome story telling combination.

Jason Rodriguez · September 5th, 2006, 07:14 AM

The Polecam should be easy to adapt to . . . simply run the head from the Polecam with gig-e to a recording box that you can sling over your shoulder like an audio recorder . . . that way you don't end up with a lot of weight on the end of the pole (the small heads are really light, like around 1lbs.)

The recording box can be really small too . . . like using a Mini-ITX with Merom or something of that nature.

A laptop could work nicely as well, although I'm not sure if there are issues when you close the lid on the laptop with it going to sleep.

August 4th, 2006, 03:37 AM	#1
Andy Walton New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 21	When will the mini be available? Hi, when will a production unit be on sale, I am interested in adapting it to use on a Polecam ( www.polecam.com )?

August 28th, 2006, 07:56 PM	#3
Dean Harrington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 898	the full kit ... My understanding is that the censor and lens on the full kit is the mini and can be detached. Is that correct?

August 30th, 2006, 11:55 PM	#8
Warren Jobe New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 12	Can a B4 not be for? Can someone help me understand the lens issues involved here? I don't quite understand how a lens can be "not designed for single sensors" instead of for imaging in general. It would seem that in order to focus an image, the lens must converge the image to a single plane, either the film plane/focusing screen/sensor or the plane of the prism block, which then separates the colors. Vignetting aside, how can a lens not be designed for single sensors?

August 31st, 2006, 12:20 PM	#10
Warren Jobe New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 12	:-o Yes, focusing "through" the prism makes sense. Thanks.

September 4th, 2006, 02:19 AM	#11
Rohan Dadswell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canberra Australia Posts: 228	B4 Lens I have been using a Canon B4 zoom lens with a Optex B4 to PL adapter on an Anton A-Minima super 16 camera with good results. Have not noticed any focus or CA problems, although the image is not as sharp as using a prime lens.

August 24th, 2006, 08:42 AM	#2
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	Yes I am also interested in the Mini. I was talking to someone associated with the upcoming film CRANK and they were discribing the director using a stripped down camera (recording to a seperate system) to do some amazing stuff. Mini (teathered to a laptop) will give you amazing flexability. I would be tempted to forgo more res (rumors, I know) for this form factor but... ---Then the only monitor is the laptop screen? ---Pricing/ availability --- what type of lens mounts (no PL & no B4 ----I think I recall David Newman saying he bought an older 16mm on eBay) ---What are the other drawbacks of the mini V. full production model? Thanks Jason, -J

August 29th, 2006, 09:08 AM	#5
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	Jason, that's great! Will you be at NAB NY in Oct? And the Full body that was shown at this past NAB was not the finalized one correct? I wonder about the weight of it (for my glidecam set up...) Sorry to pester you with so many questions, but I can't wait to see this and get my hands on it ! Thanks, John

August 29th, 2006, 02:02 PM	#6
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	No, that wasn't the final body design at all, just a prototype . . . we're doing a complete re-design of that, and it's going to be a very sturdy/industrial-strength plastic construction (at least that's the plan right now, and we're not talking chinsy toy plastic, but Mil-spec stuff), so it should be very light.

August 29th, 2006, 03:15 PM	#7
Rohan Dadswell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canberra Australia Posts: 228	So Jason, when do we get to see the new production design (and specs) ? and when does it become avalible for purchase - I know Sept was mentioned but as that is only a few days away I'm guessing that may not hapen. cheers Rohan

August 31st, 2006, 03:12 AM	#9
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	I'm certainly no expert on lens design however a lens for a 3CCD camera does not focus on the prism, it has to focus through the prism and onto the CCDs. Also from my vague understanding of lens design issues, lenses designed to work through a prism make some correction for what happens to the light as it passes through the prism. Hopefully someone better versed in the dark science of lens design will give a better and more detailed explaination.

September 4th, 2006, 06:39 PM	#13
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Yes, the Abakus adapter should work very nicely, and you will need something like that (with compesation optics), if you want to use 3-CCD lenses on film-style single-sensor cameras.

September 5th, 2006, 03:36 AM	#14
Rohan Dadswell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canberra Australia Posts: 228	The Abakus adapter looks the same as the Optex that I have used although the Optex only seemed to have one lens and not "a system of high quality optics". The Optex lens widens out the image so it will cover the larger size of the super 16 frame, something that would not be needed with the SI camera - It may have done other things to the image as well, I don't know. Unless you already own a Hi Def B4 lens I would just spend my hard earned cash on a good Super 16 zoom lens (or even a set of primes) as these adapters aren't that cheap. To get back to the original post - I would love to see a SI camera on a Polecam - it would be an awesome story telling combination.

September 5th, 2006, 07:14 AM	#15
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	The Polecam should be easy to adapt to . . . simply run the head from the Polecam with gig-e to a recording box that you can sling over your shoulder like an audio recorder . . . that way you don't end up with a lot of weight on the end of the pole (the small heads are really light, like around 1lbs.) The recording box can be really small too . . . like using a Mini-ITX with Merom or something of that nature. A laptop could work nicely as well, although I'm not sure if there are issues when you close the lid on the laptop with it going to sleep.