How will the SI-1920HDVR compete against RED

Don Donatello · June 7th, 2006, 09:45 AM

i think SI is doing good getting the word out on the SI camera since NAB and at the same time i'm not sure if there's a marketing plan in place ?????? but that could be just waiting for the Q3 release ... i've yet to see any ad on any web site or in print ????

will the SI camera remain HD (1920x1080) for Q3 release or will it move to 2k , HD, & 720p ... though 2k is just a slight bump IMO it has a totally different appeal/advertise/ or should i say i've been hearing about HD for over 15 years and when i see/hear HD i think TV ....
i've seen Ari post over at DVXuser with the possible S hd logo and the S 2k logo - IMO S2K attracks attention ... it puts it above many of the current HD camera's out there ...

also IMO the QT & FCP will also be a huge help for the SI market .. IMO a Producer/company always checks in with the DP and Editor on shooting and workflow -either one of those can put the "NO" on shooting a camera..
the SI may have the BEST post workflow this/that with premiere BUT IMO you are going to find editor after editor that will say NO to premiere ...

Tim Holtermann · June 7th, 2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathieu Kassovitz

What's this? Advertisement? With the due respect, including reporting your enthusiasm, it's not the best way to convince anyone of the advantages of your product. Maybe, I will rent or buy this camera and there isn't need to this bad consumer banners . . .

If you want to sell the idea of shooting on your cinema camera after all to the professional people . . . As trustful goals: product (quality, form factor, ease, innovation, etc.), reliability and support will be enough.

This is the SI forum and they are commenting on how they "feel" their product is being inaccurately presented when compared to another product. Call it advertising if you want but then you should go over to the RED forum and have every post removed as that product doesn't even exist then go into every other forum thread about any other camera and take anything good anyone says about a product and remove it. After all we don't want people advertising.

Most important, if having a company posting to these threads means they post an occasional "our product is great because" then so be it. There are not many places to go where you can actually communicate with the manufactures of the product you are using/going to use. It's nice to have the ear of the CE0 or CTO so let's give them some slack, especially when it's in their own forum.

Tim Holtermann · June 7th, 2006, 10:09 AM

Now to make this thread constructive...

Ari/Jason - Here is my free marketing advice - Get your camera into the hands of film makers. Lend it for free to various types of film projects (action, horror/suspence, comedy, Nature (National Geographic), etc. with the agreement that they must release footage as they shoot film.

The footage posted to the public forums and websites will serve to sell way more cameras and create way more interest than some count down on a web page or handouts telling people how great something will be.

The Spoon footage sells itself - without a a single sentence or marketing buzz word.

Bob Grant · June 7th, 2006, 04:31 PM

Tim is absolutely correct however the camera could advertise itself a little better although I think it's too small to do this effectively. Perhaps adding a large set of 'Micky Mouse' ears on the top with "SILICON IMAGING" in a large font would help, doesn't seem to have hurt Panavision.

Tom Wills · June 7th, 2006, 05:08 PM

Yeah, the QT link is good. I really love the idea of being able to run the rig with my Final Cut Pro system. Also, how much is the weight figuring at? I'm hoping under 15 pounds for flying on smaller Steadicams. That's one of the things I'm loving about the RED is that the body's only 7 pounds.

Alright, but for now I'm out of this thread, because simply I don't have enough time to be keeping up with this many threads.

Alright guys, now I'm just waiting to use it on a production. (Possibly along with the RED, in the ultimate of ideal situations.)

Bob Grant · June 7th, 2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Rodriguez

Hi Bob,

Also in regards to the back focus system, we have a very robust system that allows you to set the back focus, and then clamp the lens mount down so that it's not going anywhere. It's actually much more robust than the plastic/metal combo of the Sony F900.

Hope this helps.

Yes, this helps a lot.
Looking at the Spoon production shoot stills I'm still a bit concerned though about running the imager - lens combo with remote recording. The imager block is way smaller and lighter than the lens and there's only one or two screws to secure the imager block to the camera plate and you need a spacer block under the imager block.
Traditionally the camera holds the lens but in this configuration that's almost reversed, maybe I'm being overly cautious engineering wise but I feel this could be a potential problem with klutzes not taking enough care in handling things. If it was my own camera this wouldn't worry me at all but having seen first hand how people can manage to damage jibs made of very solid metal any frailty in a lens mounting system is a bit of a worry in a rental situation.

The one thing that I do like about these next generation cameras is the overall simplicity. I'd never contemplate doing any work on any of the current camcorders myself but these new designs from SI and RED (to be impartial) look so much simpler to maintain.

Ari Presler · June 7th, 2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Holtermann

Now to make this thread constructive...

Ari/Jason - Here is my free marketing advice - Get your camera into the hands of film makers. Lend it for free to various types of film projects (action, horror/suspence, comedy, Nature (National Geographic), etc. with the agreement that they must release footage as they shoot film.

The footage posted to the public forums and websites will serve to sell way more cameras and create way more interest than some count down on a web page or handouts telling people how great something will be.

The Spoon footage sells itself - without a a single sentence or marketing buzz word.

We have several of these genres lined up to shoot with Silicon.

However, we should consider ways for individuals to get access to our camera, who may not have normally been able to shoot Cinema quality footage.

How about a contest of some sort to gain market interest? Winner(s) get Silicon to shoot their project?

PS. Tom....Thanks for playing along and please stick around :-) !

Dylan Couper · June 8th, 2006, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress

Thanks! You're right, but reading you speculate is absolutely fascinating!

Graeme

Hah, just wait until NAB 2007 when the DylanMegaPimp camera comes out and all you'se guys are shaking in your boots trying to figure out what that one big putton labeled "Magic Film Look - 3D" does and how "Onboard Smellovision" works...

Don Donatello · June 8th, 2006, 09:06 AM

there's Dv expo east i think July in NY ..and DV west LA in Nov ..

also Cinegear has expo in LA and FL IMO more persons that work in FILM industry go to cinegear ..and how should i say ? well 20k is not out of their range of thinking or pocket book ...

IMO have a few camera's at the shows !! AND try to get a room near by where you are projecting clips on the BIG SCREEN ( maybe 12- 15 min of clips and it repeats every 30 min or hr .. show a little digital projection and some clips transferred to FILM )

Marco Leavitt · June 8th, 2006, 12:06 PM

Ari,
Given the close proximity Upstate Independents has to your company, if I could put together a top notch team, would you be open to lending a camera out for say a two-day shoot? We'd be glad to allow the experience to be used for promotional purposes in any way you'd like. I'm pretty sure I could get some top people to sign on to this.

Ari Presler · June 8th, 2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

Ari,
Given the close proximity Upstate Independents has to your company, if I could put together a top notch team, would you be open to lending a camera out for say a two-day shoot? We'd be glad to allow the experience to be used for promotional purposes in any way you'd like. I'm pretty sure I could get some top people to sign on to this.

Lets do it :-) !

Marco Leavitt · June 8th, 2006, 12:43 PM

Awesome! Thanks.

Steve Parker · June 13th, 2006, 04:04 AM

I'd be very interested in publishing these results.

Steve Parker, Editor, Showreel

Bob Grant · June 13th, 2006, 04:49 AM

Ari,
you and the Spoon crew should be trying to get some coverage in the ASC magazine. Latest issue has some pretty good words on the XL-H1 / Wafian combo so you've already got a foot in the door. They've given quite a bit of space to the capabilities of the Cineform codec so you should be laughing and heck this is a camera cinematographers can relate to.

Forrest Schultz · June 15th, 2006, 01:23 PM

...If you can't hump a RED camera, then it doesnt exist...

June 7th, 2006, 09:45 AM	#46
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	i think SI is doing good getting the word out on the SI camera since NAB and at the same time i'm not sure if there's a marketing plan in place ?????? but that could be just waiting for the Q3 release ... i've yet to see any ad on any web site or in print ???? will the SI camera remain HD (1920x1080) for Q3 release or will it move to 2k , HD, & 720p ... though 2k is just a slight bump IMO it has a totally different appeal/advertise/ or should i say i've been hearing about HD for over 15 years and when i see/hear HD i think TV .... i've seen Ari post over at DVXuser with the possible S hd logo and the S 2k logo - IMO S2K attracks attention ... it puts it above many of the current HD camera's out there ... also IMO the QT & FCP will also be a huge help for the SI market .. IMO a Producer/company always checks in with the DP and Editor on shooting and workflow -either one of those can put the "NO" on shooting a camera.. the SI may have the BEST post workflow this/that with premiere BUT IMO you are going to find editor after editor that will say NO to premiere ...

June 7th, 2006, 10:09 AM	#48
Tim Holtermann Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 184	Now to make this thread constructive... Ari/Jason - Here is my free marketing advice - Get your camera into the hands of film makers. Lend it for free to various types of film projects (action, horror/suspence, comedy, Nature (National Geographic), etc. with the agreement that they must release footage as they shoot film. The footage posted to the public forums and websites will serve to sell way more cameras and create way more interest than some count down on a web page or handouts telling people how great something will be. The Spoon footage sells itself - without a a single sentence or marketing buzz word.

June 7th, 2006, 04:31 PM	#49
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Tim is absolutely correct however the camera could advertise itself a little better although I think it's too small to do this effectively. Perhaps adding a large set of 'Micky Mouse' ears on the top with "SILICON IMAGING" in a large font would help, doesn't seem to have hurt Panavision.

June 7th, 2006, 05:08 PM	#50
Tom Wills Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 326	Yeah, the QT link is good. I really love the idea of being able to run the rig with my Final Cut Pro system. Also, how much is the weight figuring at? I'm hoping under 15 pounds for flying on smaller Steadicams. That's one of the things I'm loving about the RED is that the body's only 7 pounds. Alright, but for now I'm out of this thread, because simply I don't have enough time to be keeping up with this many threads. Alright guys, now I'm just waiting to use it on a production. (Possibly along with the RED, in the ultimate of ideal situations.)

June 8th, 2006, 09:06 AM	#54
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	there's Dv expo east i think July in NY ..and DV west LA in Nov .. also Cinegear has expo in LA and FL IMO more persons that work in FILM industry go to cinegear ..and how should i say ? well 20k is not out of their range of thinking or pocket book ... IMO have a few camera's at the shows !! AND try to get a room near by where you are projecting clips on the BIG SCREEN ( maybe 12- 15 min of clips and it repeats every 30 min or hr .. show a little digital projection and some clips transferred to FILM )

June 8th, 2006, 12:06 PM	#55
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Ari, Given the close proximity Upstate Independents has to your company, if I could put together a top notch team, would you be open to lending a camera out for say a two-day shoot? We'd be glad to allow the experience to be used for promotional purposes in any way you'd like. I'm pretty sure I could get some top people to sign on to this.

June 8th, 2006, 12:43 PM	#57
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Awesome! Thanks.

June 13th, 2006, 04:04 AM	#58
Steve Parker New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brighton & Hove, UK Posts: 7	I'd be very interested in publishing these results. Steve Parker, Editor, Showreel

June 13th, 2006, 04:49 AM	#59
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Ari, you and the Spoon crew should be trying to get some coverage in the ASC magazine. Latest issue has some pretty good words on the XL-H1 / Wafian combo so you've already got a foot in the door. They've given quite a bit of space to the capabilities of the Cineform codec so you should be laughing and heck this is a camera cinematographers can relate to.

June 15th, 2006, 01:23 PM	#60
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	...If you can't hump a RED camera, then it doesnt exist...