NEW Digital Cinema Camera - Operational and showing at NAB

Chris Barcellos · April 24th, 2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Morrissette

I want to see a picture of this awsome camera!!!

8)

Jeff go to this site to see some photos of camera on a production.

http://cineform.blogspot.com/

Brian Drysdale · April 25th, 2006, 04:29 AM

Is there a viewfinder available if you don't want to shoot using the 7" monitor? A V/F would be a lot more handy when shooting hand held or on docs when shoulder mounted.

In the pictures the camera looks quite high, does that make the camera a touch top heavy?

Heath McKnight · April 25th, 2006, 09:41 AM

I'm very impressed with this camera! I can't wait to see some footage.

heath

Zack Birlew · April 25th, 2006, 02:37 PM

It doesn't look very impressive. The camera itself looked pretty cool, looked more like a small footprint computer with a lens sticking out of it. The image though, I couldn't see it being all that much better than what you can get out of an HVX200.

Jeff Morrissette · April 25th, 2006, 04:32 PM

It probably has a high resolution with no real toys or functions. I think it looks cool. BUt if your working with 2 or 4 k I assume alot of work will go into the post. That's where the cost will really add up. probably.

Still think it is a step in the right direction.

David Newman · April 26th, 2006, 01:16 AM

The footage is very nice, you just have to know what it means. The RAW ouput is pre-sharping and pre-color correction, giving a flat filmic like (more detail than any sub $10k camera.) Today more clips were color corrected and sharpened to show what the final image result can look like. I will be at the AMD booth for a short while first thing tomorrow; drop on buy and a will show you way this is so cool.

Marco Leavitt · April 26th, 2006, 08:12 AM

I think it's a shame that RED is sucking so much of the limelight away from this awesome camera. I'm not knocking RED, but Silicone Imaging has pretty much everything I need right now. I can't help but wondering if the true cost of ownership for the RED camera is going to be higher in the end too. By the way, something I can't tell from SI's Web site -- does the $20,000 package include a lens?

On their FAQ there's a reference to a basic camera head system with two Fujinon lenses for $12,500 (or do they mean the two Fujinon lenses are an additional $12,500?). It would stand to reason that full package would include lenses as well, doesn't it?

David Newman · April 26th, 2006, 08:33 AM

Thanks Marco,

I think the press coverage will be very favorable for the SI camera over Red, simply because the press gets to see something working they can make coments about. I have many of the online reporters like Adam Wilt and Steve Mullen react suitably impressed by the SI/CineForm achievements. Most internet coverage is more driven by buzz, and you all get the extreme opinions, and Red has done great at this, that will settle as the SI camera goes onto make feature films. That said I sure Red will be huge next NAB.

As for what you get with the SI camera. The two lens that come with the $12.5k head-only package do not came with the full camera at $20k, although the lens for this mount are not expensive. The assumption for the full camera was customers will want to select there own lens.

Steve Nordhauser · April 26th, 2006, 09:22 AM

Marco,
Thanks. We may have to re-think the $12.5K package pricing since we are getting requests for that without lenses, different lenses, software differences, etc. It may become more a la carte. But, as David says, the offer is for the camera head (gigabit out) recording software and two Fujinon 5Mpix c mount lenses. That and a fast laptop or desktop machine is all you need.

The full up camera does not come with lenses but includes mounts for PL, F and c.

Yes, the final production camera will be prettier and have some mechanical and functional changes based on input from the show.

Yes, we will have an optional viewfinder. The problem is that microdisplays are expensive and we wanted to keep the entry price down.

Something people seem to be missing is the low cost in post. Media is cheap since we use 2.5" laptop drives - 160GB hold 4 hours. We don't want to sell drives - you get extra carriers when you buy the camera and buy the drives yourself. You get Prospect HD and Premiere Pro with the camera. Ready to edit. The camera and a good PC and you are making a movie. OK, add some details in front of and behind the camera.

Oh, for the portable people, we have a shoulder support and handles to balance it. There will be an alternate mounting position for the battery to balance better. We have a long list of good suggestions that will be implemented by production. Thanks for the advice all.
Steve

Marco Leavitt · April 26th, 2006, 09:36 AM

For those who just buy the camera head, how would you mount that on a tripod?

Bill Anderson · April 26th, 2006, 09:47 AM

David, Steve, etc., what is meant by the camera "head"? The images I've seen don't say modular. Do you mean the camera "body"?
It might be a good idea to break down the workflow step by step for those of us-FCP users- that are not familiar with cineform. I've seen workflow diagrams on the SI site but they're not nearly informative/detailed enough for me to make the leap with confidence. I hope Apple has enough room in its moneyed heart for both RED and SI whatever it's called- the name of the unit has the pulse of a mannequin. RED rolls off the tongue as easily as does Lolita, and is memorable; well branded.
You have an excellent product in this camera, very important to the future of indie filmmaking. Thanks- I wish you every success.

Wes Vasher · April 26th, 2006, 12:00 PM

"you get extra carriers when you buy the camera and buy the drives yourself"

Brilliant Steve. This is such a breath of fresh air. What is the interface to the camera for these drives? eSATA?

Thomas Smet · April 26th, 2006, 12:25 PM

Since the camera back is pretty much a computer could we use that as our editing system if we wanted to? Imagine shooting with the camera and then using the same device with a keyboard, mouse and monitor hooked up to edit. Just a thought.

Serge Victorovich · April 27th, 2006, 05:40 AM

Camera body of SI-1920HDVR is a equal to "dual-core 2.1GHz notebook computer". Really good notebook at $7K :)
Camera head which utilise Altasens ProCamHD 3570 with ProspectHD and Premiere Pro priced as $12,5K. Total cost less than $20K.
I want to know how much cost Altasens ProCamHD 3570?
Sorry, but imo, SI-1920HDVR overpriced and only one reason for this situation is absence to competitions.

Marco Leavitt · April 27th, 2006, 08:18 AM

Overpriced? They introduce a camera that's tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than what similarly performing cameras have been going for and you think it's overpriced? I don't think you can just total up the cost of components and base the price on that. If it was so easy to design and assemble this system for cheaper I think there would be lots of people already doing it.

April 25th, 2006, 09:41 AM	#48
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I'm very impressed with this camera! I can't wait to see some footage. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 25th, 2006, 02:37 PM	#49
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	It doesn't look very impressive. The camera itself looked pretty cool, looked more like a small footprint computer with a lens sticking out of it. The image though, I couldn't see it being all that much better than what you can get out of an HVX200. __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

April 26th, 2006, 01:16 AM	#51
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The footage is very nice, you just have to know what it means. The RAW ouput is pre-sharping and pre-color correction, giving a flat filmic like (more detail than any sub $10k camera.) Today more clips were color corrected and sharpened to show what the final image result can look like. I will be at the AMD booth for a short while first thing tomorrow; drop on buy and a will show you way this is so cool. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 26th, 2006, 08:33 AM	#53
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Thanks Marco, I think the press coverage will be very favorable for the SI camera over Red, simply because the press gets to see something working they can make coments about. I have many of the online reporters like Adam Wilt and Steve Mullen react suitably impressed by the SI/CineForm achievements. Most internet coverage is more driven by buzz, and you all get the extreme opinions, and Red has done great at this, that will settle as the SI camera goes onto make feature films. That said I sure Red will be huge next NAB. As for what you get with the SI camera. The two lens that come with the $12.5k head-only package do not came with the full camera at $20k, although the lens for this mount are not expensive. The assumption for the full camera was customers will want to select there own lens. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 26th, 2006, 09:22 AM	#54
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	Marco, Thanks. We may have to re-think the $12.5K package pricing since we are getting requests for that without lenses, different lenses, software differences, etc. It may become more a la carte. But, as David says, the offer is for the camera head (gigabit out) recording software and two Fujinon 5Mpix c mount lenses. That and a fast laptop or desktop machine is all you need. The full up camera does not come with lenses but includes mounts for PL, F and c. Yes, the final production camera will be prettier and have some mechanical and functional changes based on input from the show. Yes, we will have an optional viewfinder. The problem is that microdisplays are expensive and we wanted to keep the entry price down. Something people seem to be missing is the low cost in post. Media is cheap since we use 2.5" laptop drives - 160GB hold 4 hours. We don't want to sell drives - you get extra carriers when you buy the camera and buy the drives yourself. You get Prospect HD and Premiere Pro with the camera. Ready to edit. The camera and a good PC and you are making a movie. OK, add some details in front of and behind the camera. Oh, for the portable people, we have a shoulder support and handles to balance it. There will be an alternate mounting position for the battery to balance better. We have a long list of good suggestions that will be implemented by production. Thanks for the advice all. Steve __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com

April 25th, 2006, 04:29 AM	#47
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Is there a viewfinder available if you don't want to shoot using the 7" monitor? A V/F would be a lot more handy when shooting hand held or on docs when shoulder mounted. In the pictures the camera looks quite high, does that make the camera a touch top heavy?

April 25th, 2006, 04:32 PM	#50
Jeff Morrissette Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: venice, ca Posts: 83	It probably has a high resolution with no real toys or functions. I think it looks cool. BUt if your working with 2 or 4 k I assume alot of work will go into the post. That's where the cost will really add up. probably. Still think it is a step in the right direction.

April 26th, 2006, 08:12 AM	#52
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I think it's a shame that RED is sucking so much of the limelight away from this awesome camera. I'm not knocking RED, but Silicone Imaging has pretty much everything I need right now. I can't help but wondering if the true cost of ownership for the RED camera is going to be higher in the end too. By the way, something I can't tell from SI's Web site -- does the $20,000 package include a lens? On their FAQ there's a reference to a basic camera head system with two Fujinon lenses for $12,500 (or do they mean the two Fujinon lenses are an additional $12,500?). It would stand to reason that full package would include lenses as well, doesn't it?

April 26th, 2006, 09:36 AM	#55
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	For those who just buy the camera head, how would you mount that on a tripod?

April 26th, 2006, 09:47 AM	#56
Bill Anderson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ottawa. Canada Posts: 163	Heads and tails David, Steve, etc., what is meant by the camera "head"? The images I've seen don't say modular. Do you mean the camera "body"? It might be a good idea to break down the workflow step by step for those of us-FCP users- that are not familiar with cineform. I've seen workflow diagrams on the SI site but they're not nearly informative/detailed enough for me to make the leap with confidence. I hope Apple has enough room in its moneyed heart for both RED and SI whatever it's called- the name of the unit has the pulse of a mannequin. RED rolls off the tongue as easily as does Lolita, and is memorable; well branded. You have an excellent product in this camera, very important to the future of indie filmmaking. Thanks- I wish you every success. __________________ Bill Anderson www.williamanderson.ca

April 26th, 2006, 12:00 PM	#57
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	"you get extra carriers when you buy the camera and buy the drives yourself" Brilliant Steve. This is such a breath of fresh air. What is the interface to the camera for these drives? eSATA?

April 26th, 2006, 12:25 PM	#58
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Since the camera back is pretty much a computer could we use that as our editing system if we wanted to? Imagine shooting with the camera and then using the same device with a keyboard, mouse and monitor hooked up to edit. Just a thought.

April 27th, 2006, 05:40 AM	#59
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Camera body of SI-1920HDVR is a equal to "dual-core 2.1GHz notebook computer". Really good notebook at $7K :) Camera head which utilise Altasens ProCamHD 3570 with ProspectHD and Premiere Pro priced as $12,5K. Total cost less than $20K. I want to know how much cost Altasens ProCamHD 3570? Sorry, but imo, SI-1920HDVR overpriced and only one reason for this situation is absence to competitions.

April 27th, 2006, 08:18 AM	#60
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Overpriced? They introduce a camera that's tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than what similarly performing cameras have been going for and you think it's overpriced? I don't think you can just total up the cost of components and base the price on that. If it was so easy to design and assemble this system for cheaper I think there would be lots of people already doing it.