The best way to edit natively -- CineForm RAW in the camera.

David Newman · April 18th, 2006, 04:49 PM

Trail version is a fully working (15 day license) of Prospect HD-Edit (not Ingest.) OEM is just an agreement for another compant to bundle the product, this is the same as Prospect HD Edit sold through CineForm.

Pierre Barberis · April 21st, 2006, 08:06 AM

The pics that SI has posted on their site, cant be true.

They expose 700 x 394 pixels pics to illustrate the ultimate quality of disk based HD ????
David dont let them ruin your brilliant project/product !!

David Newman · April 21st, 2006, 08:23 AM

Full res images are going up after NAB, all part of the tease.

Richard Leadbetter · April 23rd, 2006, 11:18 AM

Congratulations on this product David. We've just finished up editing a low budget music video shot on DV - we took this on to see if we had the editing prowess to make a decent fist of this sort of work. Going forward we'd like to do more of this kind of project in HD, and the facility to slot footage of this quality into our existing workflow makes it simply irresistable. It also opens up very interesting possibilities for our existing HD video games services.

A 'free' Prospect HD/Premiere Pro 2.0 set-up with the camera is the icing on a pretty extraordinary cake.

From a technical perspective, I'm pleasantly surprised that the 5,400rpm SATA 2.5" drive is good enough to handle 720p at up to 72fps! Is this using the equivalent of your DirectShow encoder's high quality setting?

David Newman · April 23rd, 2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Leadbetter

From a technical perspective, I'm pleasantly surprised that the 5,400rpm SATA 2.5" drive is good enough to handle 720p at up to 72fps! Is this using the equivalent of your DirectShow encoder's high quality setting?

There is a high quality setting than "High" in all our Prospect HD products, that is what the camera is mostly using. However the bit-rate for CineForm RAW are about that that of CineForm Intermediate (it is a RAW vs 4:2:2 -- RAW is easier to compress to lower bite-rate.) 720p at 72p may peek to 15MB/s (or 180Mb/s) to drives can handle it.

Seth Bloombaum · April 23rd, 2006, 05:57 PM

Excuse my ignorance, but can this camera integrate into a Final Cut Pro HD environment? Not for me, I'm Vegas on the PC... but many people I know would only be interested if they could post on FCP.

David Newman · April 23rd, 2006, 09:07 PM

Yes, FCP compatibility is planned in the time the camera's release.

Chris Barcellos · April 24th, 2006, 10:59 AM

Okay, so I saw the pics of the new camera. To me, it appears to be what really is happening is you are taking a PC on other small board configuration, much like a Shuttle mini configuration, adding a CMOS sensor, a lense mount, various monitoring capabilities, and capability to capture large data streams and a hard drive. There are no moving parts, except in hard drive, right, and maybe auto focus and zoom capabilities. I recognize there are a lot of technical issues, but, the simplicity of this approach has got to me scaring the hell out of Panasonic and Sony. Remember the days you had to buy a PC from IBM for $10 k, now you can build one your selve for $600.00. Nice going Cineform people for moving this forward. Time to start stocking up on harddrives, though...

Richard Leadbetter · April 24th, 2006, 11:48 AM

Chris,

Are the pictures of the camera online?

Chris Barcellos · April 24th, 2006, 12:13 PM

Richard:

Yes. But damned if I can locate right now. I recall I may have gone to the SG Support site, and registered there, and eventually got to a site where they had still of a film being shot with camera. Try that route. I don't have time to retrace steps right now.

I'm sorry, should have said SI (for Silocon Imaging)

David Newman · April 24th, 2006, 08:41 PM

You can see pictures on my blog and on the Silicon Imaging support forum (under virtual NAB.)

Alex Raskin · April 24th, 2006, 09:43 PM

David, sorry if this was covered before... but if you put SLR lenses on the cam directly, aren't you always getting extreme telephoto due to about 7x SLR lens factor on the small imaging sensor?

Jim Long · April 24th, 2006, 10:55 PM

David,
I'm a confirmed Propspect user for close to a year (bought it bundled with a hefty Boxx NLE)and have convinced a foreign investor that this is way to post a proposed tv series and feature film. When he gets financing in place, we were going to purchase a couple of fully outfitted Boxx or HP workstations (loaded with Propsect and Premiere Pro, of course) and a couple of Sony CineAlta packages. Call me crazy but would I be doing the wrong thing by steering our guy over to the Silicon Imaging for a couple of their cameras instead?

David Newman · April 25th, 2006, 12:43 AM

Alex,

There is not that much magnication, as the sensor is not very small, this camera with have the FOV characteristic of a 16mm film camera. Yes you can put Nikon F mount lens on it, as a cheap lens solution, but 16mm lens are also inexpensive (rent or buy.)

Jim,

The SI camera might very well serve in place of a CineAlta, although as this looks a different, the F950 will get the best HD look, whereas the SI camera will be more filmic.

Luis Otero · April 25th, 2006, 07:56 PM

David,

In your blog you said "Prosumer HD cameras pump up the image to make it look cool straight out of the box, this limits the dynamic range the degree the image can be corrected in post."

My question is: To what extent the "pumping of the image" can be undone in the HD100 (varying the settings) to avoid limiting of the dinamic range, so indeed it can be used as RAW footage that could be modified by the CineForm Color Matrix Settings without burning the data into the RAW image, same way you are doing with the SI camera?

Thanks,

Luis Otero

PS

Somehow, I always felt that using my single sensor HD10 was giving me great footage, even better than any footage I have seen by the Sony 3CCD cameras, inspite the limitation of parameters control of the HD10. I love my new HD100, make no mistake about it, but I never was bodered by having a single sensor HDV camera since my footage was always great...

April 18th, 2006, 04:49 PM	#16
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Trail version is a fully working (15 day license) of Prospect HD-Edit (not Ingest.) OEM is just an agreement for another compant to bundle the product, this is the same as Prospect HD Edit sold through CineForm. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 21st, 2006, 08:06 AM	#17
Pierre Barberis Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MANILA Philippines Posts: 117	Unbelievable... The pics that SI has posted on their site, cant be true. They expose 700 x 394 pixels pics to illustrate the ultimate quality of disk based HD ???? David dont let them ruin your brilliant project/product !!

April 21st, 2006, 08:23 AM	#18
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Full res images are going up after NAB, all part of the tease. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 23rd, 2006, 09:07 PM	#22
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes, FCP compatibility is planned in the time the camera's release. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 24th, 2006, 10:59 AM	#23
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Component Camera System to become a reality ? Okay, so I saw the pics of the new camera. To me, it appears to be what really is happening is you are taking a PC on other small board configuration, much like a Shuttle mini configuration, adding a CMOS sensor, a lense mount, various monitoring capabilities, and capability to capture large data streams and a hard drive. There are no moving parts, except in hard drive, right, and maybe auto focus and zoom capabilities. I recognize there are a lot of technical issues, but, the simplicity of this approach has got to me scaring the hell out of Panasonic and Sony. Remember the days you had to buy a PC from IBM for $10 k, now you can build one your selve for $600.00. Nice going Cineform people for moving this forward. Time to start stocking up on harddrives, though... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 23rd, 2006, 11:18 AM	#19
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	Congratulations on this product David. We've just finished up editing a low budget music video shot on DV - we took this on to see if we had the editing prowess to make a decent fist of this sort of work. Going forward we'd like to do more of this kind of project in HD, and the facility to slot footage of this quality into our existing workflow makes it simply irresistable. It also opens up very interesting possibilities for our existing HD video games services. A 'free' Prospect HD/Premiere Pro 2.0 set-up with the camera is the icing on a pretty extraordinary cake. From a technical perspective, I'm pleasantly surprised that the 5,400rpm SATA 2.5" drive is good enough to handle 720p at up to 72fps! Is this using the equivalent of your DirectShow encoder's high quality setting?

April 23rd, 2006, 05:57 PM	#21
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Excuse my ignorance, but can this camera integrate into a Final Cut Pro HD environment? Not for me, I'm Vegas on the PC... but many people I know would only be interested if they could post on FCP.

April 24th, 2006, 11:48 AM	#24
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	Chris, Are the pictures of the camera online?

April 24th, 2006, 12:13 PM	#25
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Richard: Yes. But damned if I can locate right now. I recall I may have gone to the SG Support site, and registered there, and eventually got to a site where they had still of a film being shot with camera. Try that route. I don't have time to retrace steps right now. I'm sorry, should have said SI (for Silocon Imaging) __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 24th, 2006, 08:41 PM	#26
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You can see pictures on my blog and on the Silicon Imaging support forum (under virtual NAB.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 24th, 2006, 09:43 PM	#27
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	David, sorry if this was covered before... but if you put SLR lenses on the cam directly, aren't you always getting extreme telephoto due to about 7x SLR lens factor on the small imaging sensor?

April 24th, 2006, 10:55 PM	#28
Jim Long Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Springdale, Arkansas Posts: 55	Jettison CineAlta for Silicon Imaging? David, I'm a confirmed Propspect user for close to a year (bought it bundled with a hefty Boxx NLE)and have convinced a foreign investor that this is way to post a proposed tv series and feature film. When he gets financing in place, we were going to purchase a couple of fully outfitted Boxx or HP workstations (loaded with Propsect and Premiere Pro, of course) and a couple of Sony CineAlta packages. Call me crazy but would I be doing the wrong thing by steering our guy over to the Silicon Imaging for a couple of their cameras instead?

April 25th, 2006, 12:43 AM	#29
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Alex, There is not that much magnication, as the sensor is not very small, this camera with have the FOV characteristic of a 16mm film camera. Yes you can put Nikon F mount lens on it, as a cheap lens solution, but 16mm lens are also inexpensive (rent or buy.) Jim, The SI camera might very well serve in place of a CineAlta, although as this looks a different, the F950 will get the best HD look, whereas the SI camera will be more filmic. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 25th, 2006, 07:56 PM	#30
Luis Otero Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Fort Dodge, IA Posts: 221	RAW and HD100 David, In your blog you said "Prosumer HD cameras pump up the image to make it look cool straight out of the box, this limits the dynamic range the degree the image can be corrected in post." My question is: To what extent the "pumping of the image" can be undone in the HD100 (varying the settings) to avoid limiting of the dinamic range, so indeed it can be used as RAW footage that could be modified by the CineForm Color Matrix Settings without burning the data into the RAW image, same way you are doing with the SI camera? Thanks, Luis Otero PS Somehow, I always felt that using my single sensor HD10 was giving me great footage, even better than any footage I have seen by the Sony 3CCD cameras, inspite the limitation of parameters control of the HD10. I love my new HD100, make no mistake about it, but I never was bodered by having a single sensor HDV camera since my footage was always great...