TV Zooms C-mount with SI-2K

[Alex Raskin]

Anyone tried them?

I'm using an old JVC 17-102 TV Zoom, and it does produce an OK picture - and covers the sensor in the entire zoom range. Relatively fast at 1:2.

Was wondering if other SI-2K users had any luck with the zooms. Sharpness? Sensor coverage? Fast glass?

My JVC cannot be compared to my Optar Illumina Primes, of course, but still it saves the day when I need a quick and dirty job, without hauling all the primes. Produces not spectacular, but good image.

Maybe other TV Zooms with C-mount can be found that are closely approximating Primes in the image quality?

[Lior Molcho]

Hi Alex,
are you using the JVC lens with the optical adapter to the SI?
When last i checked these lenses were a few hundreds, we managed to get a used s16 Zeiss zoom (PL) for less then a 1000$ at Alan Gordon's
might be relevant to you

[Alex Raskin]

>> are you using the JVC lens with the optical adapter to the SI?

Hi Lior, unsure what do you mean by the adapter - the zoom came with the C-mount, and I'm using the standard C-mount plate that came with the SI-2K Mini to mount the lens.

>> s16 Zeiss zoom (PL)

Do you happen to know the exact model and specs?

How sharp/fast/heavy is it?

I recall one person here reporting success with Kern Vario Switar POE zoom, but I'd like to have more info on what works....

[Bob Hart]

I have tried the following C-mount zoom lenses.


Cosmicar 12 - 75 2/3" f1.8 ex Sony 1/2" EIAJ camera and portable recorder. - Soft for HD.
Canon 17 - 85 2/3" ex Panasonic camera and VHS portable recorder. - Soft for HD.
Fujinon TV-Z 16 - 160 2/3". Soft for HD but good contrast.
Pan Cinor Som Berthoit 17 - 85? 16mm cine. Sharp for old lens. - acceptable for HD.


The first two lenses I have used to shoot standard 16mm film on a Bolex and the results were acceptable for stringer news but not production.

[Alex Raskin]

Thanks Bob, this is very useful so not to try what is already known to be soft.

I am currently thinking of these lenses:

- Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 11-110mm T*2.2 PL Mount (some say it becomes 12-120 with PL conversion... or is it a different zoom lens?)

- Kern Switar POE 16-100 C-mount

- Zeiss Vario Tevidon F2 18-90mm C-mount (this one seems to be an old East Germany-made lens, not the same Zeiss as in Western Germany of the time.) Of course the zoom range is limited, plus it has non-standard (I think?) gears.

Price-wise, Tevidon can be had for around $400. First two seem more expensive.

It appears to me that Zeiss 11-110 would be the preference, as it was designed specifically to cover S16-size sensor in both film and CCD TV cams. So I heard.

Do you know anything about it?

[Brian Drysdale]

Standard 16mm lenses should cover a 2/3" chip, these are usually cheaper than the Super 16 lenses. However, the Super 16 lenses are usually more modern designs

The 12mm to 120mm Zeiss is a Super 16 conversion of the 10mm-100mm zoom. It's nothing to do with the mount, there is an optical adapter that is fitted to the rear of the lens.

The Zeiss 11mm to 110mm is designed to cover Super 16 film, I doubt anyone would use them for CCTV, they were expensive glassware. A Mark II 10mm to 100mm would the Standard 16 equivalent.

The Cooke 9 to 50 Varokinetal should be a great performer. It doesn't breath when focusing either.

[Alex Raskin]

Brian said:
>> The Cooke 9 to 50 Varokinetal should be a great performer.

Looks like that one is 16mm, while Cooke 10.4-52 is for Super 16.

Former can be converted though:
CinemaTechnic | Super 16 Lens Conversions

Price-wise, seems $5K used + $2K conversion. Gulp.

[Brian Drysdale]

You don't need a Super 16 lens, the image from a Standard 16mm (10.26mm by 7.49 mm) lens will cover the 2/3" sensor (10.3 X 5.76 mm). Converting the lens will reduce the optical quality - a Super 16 conversion works the same way as a x 2 range extender does.

[Alex Raskin]

I tried Switar primes, and starting at 16mm they do vignette on SI-2K.

Of course, Cooke zoom may have a different construction, but without actually testing it I'd be cautious of the possible results on SI-2K. Especially since it goes so wide, up to 9mm... Any empirical data?

[Bob Hart]

About three hard drives back, I logged on to a site which published what older lenses covered Super16mm and what did not. I can't find the link now.

Maybe try search "Super16mm"+"Kinoptik".

Ken Hale's ( Whitehouse Audiovisual) new-old-stock Angeniuex 17 - 75 "compact" zooms cover the SI2K sensor. He made PL-Mounts for them for the SI2K and REDs working at 2K.

Older Angenieux 15 - 150 lenses will vignette on wide and again between about 25mm - 35mm through the zoom movement.

[Alex Raskin]

Is it this one?
Angenieux 17.5-70mm Super 16 Zoom Lens

It seems a bit slow at F2.5, and zoom range is relatively narrow... What would be the advantage of Angenieux 17-70 zoom over, say, Zeiss Tevidon F2 18-90mm C-mount at half the price?

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

I tried Switar primes, and starting at 16mm they do vignette on SI-2K.

Of course, Cooke zoom may have a different construction, but without actually testing it I'd be cautious of the possible results on SI-2K. Especially since it goes so wide, up to 9mm... Any empirical data?

You'd need to check, for example the Zeiss Super Speed primes for Standard 16mm will cover Super 16, even the 9.5mm - although that particular is not claimed to do so.

You could check with Cooke. Cooke Optics Limited : Home However, I know people have used it with the RED, which it is 11.1mm x 6.24mm when windowed for 2K.

Cost wise the old Zeiss T3 10mm-100mm may be worth checking. Slow, but they out performed the Angenieux zooms of that period, again you'd need to test. Although, I don't recall it vignetting even on the out of frame viewing area on my Aaton's pre Super 16 version Standard 16mm ground glass.

I suspect you're less likely to have vignetting with the Standard 16 lenses than old C mount TV zooms, which are Standard Def anyway.

An extra thought is to be aware of portholing, which perhaps could look like vignetting.

[Bob Hart]

Alex.


Yes. That's the one. Ken also lists them on the eBay from time to time so you may get it cheaper if no one bids against you and he sets a lower reserve.

The range is a bit restricted compared to more modern lenses and you will find the focus will breathe. I don't know the Tevidon lens so I can't comment. Pricewise, you probably can't go wrong.

The contrast and the "look" of the Compact is all Angenieux. The lens body is small when you have the wide-angle adaptor off it, a handy attribute when you are using the Mini on a cable. Being new-old-stock you are not dealing with cleaning marks or worn internal zoom movement.

I have a test up with this lens on Vimeo. I shall see if I can find it. It is sharper than this clip suggests.

ANGENIEUX 17.5 - 70 "COMPACT" ZOOM LENS TEST ON SI2K CAMERA. on Vimeo

[Alex Raskin]

Just found this (rather old but seems still valid) comprehensive chart lists both zooms and primes that cover S16 sensors:

CinemaTechnic | Resources | Optics for Super 16mm

It does appear that Zeiss 11-110mm T 2.2 is a good idea for SI-2K.

Although I'd love to have the much faster (and better mechanically??) Cooke RU953 9.5-53mm T 1.6, as per chart. Looks like Jorge is doing the conversion from 35mm version on that one?

[Alex Raskin]

Yup, Cooke is a conversion from 35mm:

"A few years back, Cooke began offering conversions to take it's industry standard 35 format lenses, the 20-100 and the newer 18-100 and magnifying the image projection down to only cover S-16. By focusing all that light onto a smaller image area the glass became a very fast T1.6. Focal lengths were converted to 9.5-53." - says Abelcine's own Mitch Gross.
And here it is commercially available for a mere $42,5000:
ZGC | Cooke 9.5-53mm, T1.6 Zoom for Super16

Can you say "Sticker Shock" :)