Post workflow of Mac at DVinfo.net

Sergio Sanchez · October 15th, 2007, 03:14 PM

Hi:

I`ve been speaking with many clients about the operability of the SI2K they are very interested in producing with it. The only issue is that most of them are using Mac workflows. I now that the workflow is constantly changing and new upgrades on the Mac side are getting better. My problem is that im using PC workstations, and I dont have a Mac here to test the workflow.

So, whats the updated Mac recommended workflow?

Bhaskar Dhungana · October 15th, 2007, 09:39 PM

Sergio,
Are you talking about Mac OS on a Mac workflow? Or XP workflow on a Mactel? Cause I'm doing the XP workflow on Mac machines and its the same as PC. I think the quicktime workflow is a bit different. Haven't tried it, mainly because the RAW Metadata access is not there yet. For me the metadata controls are perhaps the most inticing part of the whole workflow.

Bhaskar

Sergio Sanchez · October 15th, 2007, 11:57 PM

I mean workflow on Mac OS X, you see, most of the people I`ve been speaking too starts to feel sick as soon as i mention Windows XP, most of the production facilities here, works with Apple software only...(I dont agree, but what can I say?)

I explain them the AVI rewrapping to MOV workflow but this was very confusing. Thats why I want to know if there is something new about the Mac workflow. I`ve read on Cineform website that FCP is playing out Cineform RAW now, but I dont know with what kind of limitations.

David Taylor · October 16th, 2007, 03:47 PM

Sergio,

As you're aware when files are recorded in the SI-2K/Mini, active metadata is embedded that describes white balance and 3D LUT. Originally that information was stored in the AVI header, and was accessed and applied during playback on Windows. Specifically in answer to your question, on Windows we extract and apply the active metadata within the decoder in a manner that is transparent to the calling app (PPro, AE, WMP, etc).

But that structure wouldn't work for MOV files on Mac for reasons I won't go into, so we have re-architected the storage of active metadata to be inside the streams (below the wrapper) so it now occurs within the compressed video "essence", which also means it is now identical for both MacOS and Windows. The "wrapper" (AVI/MOV) now doesn't have any clip-specific information in it, which is good because we can now easily re-wrap between AVI and MOV files without worrying about extracting and re-inserting active metadata. All files recorded with the SI cameras are now using this new active metadata recording architecture.

What CineForm is now working on are cross-platform compatible tools for extracting and applying active metadata, real-time demosaic to full resolution, and other items. In our new architecture, when we make a software update, both platforms (for the most part_ get the updates simultaneously. It has taken us some time to get the underpinnings of the new architecture in place, but we're making good progress internally. Unfortunately during this period there has been little new to visually demonstrate because the hard work has been mostly under-the-hood, and of course we haven't talked about it too much either. But I thought it was time to offer an explanation.

It'll still take a little bit before all the raw manipulation features and performance currently available on Windows are available on Mac, but we're trying to bring both platforms up to parity as quickly as possible.

Things are working well internally right now, and I think you will be pleased with the result, and hopefully we'll see the first cross-platform compatible result of this in the coming few weeks.

Sergio Sanchez · October 16th, 2007, 11:05 PM

Thank you David,

I will explain that to my clients, for me is not a problem since I work mostly with Windows, and compositing is being done on image sequences.

It will be great when we could be able of play with the files in both platforms without any compromises.

Joel Smith · October 19th, 2007, 11:34 PM

David,

What about RAW .AVI files that were shot back on the beta SI-2K cameras? I have footage I need to get converted that we shot back in March but don't have access to Premiere and Prospect2K anymore. Do I need to simply wait or will the old type of meta data retrieval be included?

I can view the 1080p RAW clips in Quicktime and FCP now, but only in 960x540 with no .look file applied.

Thanks,

Joel

Jason Rodriguez · October 21st, 2007, 01:23 PM

Hi Joel,

I don't think you have to update the metadata headers, but if you do, I can send you a utility to-do so. But the key thing to remember is that right now there is no support for the full-resolution demosaic and metadata on the Mac, so no matter what you're going to see the half-resolution files and no color metadata at this point in time. The good news is that the files are playing back, so once the updates to the CineForm engine on the Mac happen, your files should take advantage of that.

Miklos Philips · December 28th, 2007, 04:04 PM

Hi all,

I'm waiting for the Mac Cineform extensions to come out so I can edit a film I just shot with the SI mini camera. In the meantime, I can check the footage on the PC (comes up looking OK) and an Intel Mac (green and no look files applied) and both have a problem, the clip resolutions are 1024x976 when opened in Quicktime, lower than the spec 1920x1080 full HD (or is it 2048x1152?). I know of a utility that one can run these clips through to change the header info in the AVI files. I can't find it on the Cineform site. Anybody know where I can get this Windows utility and will it run on Vista or just XP? Thanks a bunch in advance.

Also, does anyone have any info on when the Mac Cineform extensions will come out?

David Taylor · December 28th, 2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miklos Philips

Hi all,

does anyone have any info on when the Mac Cineform extensions will come out?

Miklos, soon after New Year's we'll have an update to the CineForm Mac codec supporting CineForm RAW with active metadata on MacOS and FCP. It's working internally now.

Hopefully Jason can chime in regarding file parameters you're seeing. There have been some codec changes in the past few months that SI has rolled out, so you'll need to get that information, and possible header update utilities, directly from SI.

Miklos Philips · December 29th, 2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Taylor

Miklos, soon after New Year's we'll have an update to the CineForm Mac codec supporting CineForm RAW with active metadata on MacOS and FCP. It's working internally now.

Hopefully Jason can chime in regarding file parameters you're seeing. There have been some codec changes in the past few months that SI has rolled out, so you'll need to get that information, and possible header update utilities, directly from SI.

WOW! That is great news. I ran the utility you sent me David (it worked!) and now my files are coming up as full rez 2K on Windows and Mac. I'm running an Intel Mac and can switch between XP and Mac OSX Leopard easily. At least on the Windows side I can see the footage with the .look files applied. However, I edit everything with FCP 6 on the Mac side. When the updates come out for QT on the MAC I will be able to finally edit these files in FCP, right?

Many thanks,

David Taylor · December 29th, 2007, 02:47 PM

Miklos, currently there are some compatibility issues with the CineForm codec on Leopard that we're trying to understand. The next release with active metadata support might by non-Leopard.

Miklos Philips · December 29th, 2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Taylor

Miklos, currently there are some compatibility issues with the CineForm codec on Leopard that we're trying to understand. The next release with active metadata support might by non-Leopard.

But Tiger (Mac OSX 10.4.11?)
Even if it worked on Tiger I would be ecstatic!

Jason Rodriguez · December 31st, 2007, 10:10 AM

Yes, it should work on Tiger just fine. That is what we will be testing on at first.

October 15th, 2007, 03:14 PM	#1
Sergio Sanchez Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Mexico Posts: 176	Post workflow of Mac Hi: I`ve been speaking with many clients about the operability of the SI2K they are very interested in producing with it. The only issue is that most of them are using Mac workflows. I now that the workflow is constantly changing and new upgrades on the Mac side are getting better. My problem is that im using PC workstations, and I dont have a Mac here to test the workflow. So, whats the updated Mac recommended workflow?

December 28th, 2007, 04:04 PM	#8
Miklos Philips Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 104 Images: 12	Make Cineform RAW AVI clips go full rez - where's the utility? Hi all, I'm waiting for the Mac Cineform extensions to come out so I can edit a film I just shot with the SI mini camera. In the meantime, I can check the footage on the PC (comes up looking OK) and an Intel Mac (green and no look files applied) and both have a problem, the clip resolutions are 1024x976 when opened in Quicktime, lower than the spec 1920x1080 full HD (or is it 2048x1152?). I know of a utility that one can run these clips through to change the header info in the AVI files. I can't find it on the Cineform site. Anybody know where I can get this Windows utility and will it run on Vista or just XP? Thanks a bunch in advance. Also, does anyone have any info on when the Mac Cineform extensions will come out? __________________ ........................... Miklos Philips Producer-Director Point Zero Pictures http://www.pointzeropictures.com

October 15th, 2007, 09:39 PM	#2
Bhaskar Dhungana Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kathmandu, Nepal Posts: 32	Sergio, Are you talking about Mac OS on a Mac workflow? Or XP workflow on a Mactel? Cause I'm doing the XP workflow on Mac machines and its the same as PC. I think the quicktime workflow is a bit different. Haven't tried it, mainly because the RAW Metadata access is not there yet. For me the metadata controls are perhaps the most inticing part of the whole workflow. Bhaskar

October 15th, 2007, 11:57 PM	#3
Sergio Sanchez Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Mexico Posts: 176	I mean workflow on Mac OS X, you see, most of the people I`ve been speaking too starts to feel sick as soon as i mention Windows XP, most of the production facilities here, works with Apple software only...(I dont agree, but what can I say?) I explain them the AVI rewrapping to MOV workflow but this was very confusing. Thats why I want to know if there is something new about the Mac workflow. I`ve read on Cineform website that FCP is playing out Cineform RAW now, but I dont know with what kind of limitations.

October 16th, 2007, 03:47 PM	#4
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Sergio, As you're aware when files are recorded in the SI-2K/Mini, active metadata is embedded that describes white balance and 3D LUT. Originally that information was stored in the AVI header, and was accessed and applied during playback on Windows. Specifically in answer to your question, on Windows we extract and apply the active metadata within the decoder in a manner that is transparent to the calling app (PPro, AE, WMP, etc). But that structure wouldn't work for MOV files on Mac for reasons I won't go into, so we have re-architected the storage of active metadata to be inside the streams (below the wrapper) so it now occurs within the compressed video "essence", which also means it is now identical for both MacOS and Windows. The "wrapper" (AVI/MOV) now doesn't have any clip-specific information in it, which is good because we can now easily re-wrap between AVI and MOV files without worrying about extracting and re-inserting active metadata. All files recorded with the SI cameras are now using this new active metadata recording architecture. What CineForm is now working on are cross-platform compatible tools for extracting and applying active metadata, real-time demosaic to full resolution, and other items. In our new architecture, when we make a software update, both platforms (for the most part_ get the updates simultaneously. It has taken us some time to get the underpinnings of the new architecture in place, but we're making good progress internally. Unfortunately during this period there has been little new to visually demonstrate because the hard work has been mostly under-the-hood, and of course we haven't talked about it too much either. But I thought it was time to offer an explanation. It'll still take a little bit before all the raw manipulation features and performance currently available on Windows are available on Mac, but we're trying to bring both platforms up to parity as quickly as possible. Things are working well internally right now, and I think you will be pleased with the result, and hopefully we'll see the first cross-platform compatible result of this in the coming few weeks.

October 16th, 2007, 11:05 PM	#5
Sergio Sanchez Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Mexico Posts: 176	Thank you David, I will explain that to my clients, for me is not a problem since I work mostly with Windows, and compositing is being done on image sequences. It will be great when we could be able of play with the files in both platforms without any compromises.

October 19th, 2007, 11:34 PM	#6
Joel Smith Tourist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 2	David, What about RAW .AVI files that were shot back on the beta SI-2K cameras? I have footage I need to get converted that we shot back in March but don't have access to Premiere and Prospect2K anymore. Do I need to simply wait or will the old type of meta data retrieval be included? I can view the 1080p RAW clips in Quicktime and FCP now, but only in 960x540 with no .look file applied. Thanks, Joel

October 21st, 2007, 01:23 PM	#7
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Hi Joel, I don't think you have to update the metadata headers, but if you do, I can send you a utility to-do so. But the key thing to remember is that right now there is no support for the full-resolution demosaic and metadata on the Mac, so no matter what you're going to see the half-resolution files and no color metadata at this point in time. The good news is that the files are playing back, so once the updates to the CineForm engine on the Mac happen, your files should take advantage of that.

December 29th, 2007, 02:47 PM	#11
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Miklos, currently there are some compatibility issues with the CineForm codec on Leopard that we're trying to understand. The next release with active metadata support might by non-Leopard.

December 31st, 2007, 10:10 AM	#13
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Yes, it should work on Tiger just fine. That is what we will be testing on at first.