Now that it's August 7..... at DVinfo.net

Michael Javorka · August 7th, 2007, 02:41 PM

I'm a cinematographer in Austin, switching over from 35mm to HD. I principally shoot high end stock and have it repped through Getty. In spite of the promising future of the Red camera, I see that I'd be waiting a long time... well into '08 to own one. In my research, I came across the SI cameras, researched them, watched their tutorials and got excited for a number of reasons. I even spent a day on the phone with Ari Pressler.

My question and issue after reading all these threads, is still delivery. What use is a concept and a sales program without delivery? I, like many film and graphics pros, am working on a Mac platform. Last I knew, SI was still 60 days out on having the Cineform ready so they'd "certify" the use of the Mini with my state of the art Mac. Will this 60 days become 6 months? As I read these threads, again, it seems that people are frustrated with delivery. So I ask, as of today, August 7, if I write a check today to SI, will I have an SI-2K in even a month? If I purchase a Mini, can I have on premises inside 2 weeks? And if I do order the Mini (anticipating that the full 2K still isn't shipping... or is backordered) will they provide me certification and/or support for shooting the Mini tethered to my Mac? I guess I'm looking to someone in sales to provide solid answers on delivery. Otherwise, I'll lose a lot more time in production waiting and I might as well consider the Red. Accurate, realistic delivery info is what I believe I'm sensing we all need here.

Bob Grant · August 7th, 2007, 03:29 PM

I know of at least two of the new MINIs in this city, we've had ours for around a month now. I can't say how many more SI have in stock but there seems to be no problems in supply of the MINIs.
As for the full camera I'll leave that upto SI to comment on.

Michael Javorka · August 7th, 2007, 03:45 PM

Thanks, Bob. While I wait for some comment.... I'm curious also what lenses you're using. Do you know which Fujinon primes (what focal length) SI is selling for use with the Mini? Also... curious how you use the Mini without a viewfinder. Are you executing pans and tilts and just monitoring the moves on your laptop?? Does the Mini come with a thread mount for tripod. I assume that when a big zoom is used, as opposed to the primes, that the lens is mounted to the fluid head and the little Mini hangs off the back.... much like still photographers with those huge teles. Any recommendation as to a small to medium fluid head?

John DeLuca · August 7th, 2007, 05:27 PM

Michael-

SI-2K full body shipping- SI told us the first lot (which I believe is sold out) may be shipping in a couple weeks. I plan on posting pics for the board when it arrives.

Fuji Primes- We own a few. IMO Frankly I wish I never got them. They can’t be opened up or closed down without problems. They are to soft. They don’t have gearing or calibrated barrel markings (absolutely critical for any ‘real’ work). Every F-Stop clicks into place. They come into focus to fast (a slight turn of the ring will snap focus). Again this is my opinion.

Monitor- We use the 1920x1200 Dell M90 monitor. You can focus, pan and tilt the same way you would with a broadcast monitor. SI sells a small LCD you can mount above the camera head (this will give you better shot dexterity).

Thread mount- Yes it comes with thread mounts on the top and bottom of the camera head.

****I assume that when a big zoom is used, as opposed to the primes, that the lens is mounted to the fluid head and the little Mini hangs off the back*****

It depends on what accessories you have, but check this out- http://dcsimagegalleries.com/DCS2007...xp/index3.html
It looks like they are using wooden rods and a sand bag.

*****Any recommendation as to a small to medium fluid head?****

We use the Bogen 503 (75mm bowl, supports up to 13lbs) for the mini only and the 526 (100mm bowl, supports up to 35lbs) for the body+payload. I know, I know a lot of people dislike bogen, but IMO it is mostly the operator.

****I'm curious also what lenses you're using****

For now we are using Nikkor Primes for 85% of our shots and the Fujis for everything wide angle. I will probably wait until the 2K-35 (35mm adapter) comes out before I decide to go S16 or 35 lenses.

Exposure- We use a hand held light meter or the light meter inside a 35mm SLR (as in a film camera). Its dead on.

Jason Rodriguez · August 8th, 2007, 06:59 AM

Hi,

The MINI's are available right now, although we're still waiting for the Final Cut Pro components if you have to work on OSX/Final Cut for editing. Those components should be in-place some-time this month as a beta. You can definitely hook up the MINI to the Mac Pro (or MacBook Pro provided you have the right specs, which are at least a 2.33Ghz and 2GB of RAM) using bootcamp, and record tethered that way. We've had many people in-the-field doing this now.

As far as the SI-2K goes, P+S is finishing the final assembly of the first production units this week. That means painted, assembled, everything . . . finished. They then have to QA them before shipping them out (i.e., just because you assembled it doesn't mean it's assembled correctly), which will take probably a week, so I would expect to see parts in the U.S. by the end of the month.

Ralph Keyser · August 8th, 2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Javorka

Does the Mini come with a thread mount for tripod. I assume that when a big zoom is used, as opposed to the primes, that the lens is mounted to the fluid head and the little Mini hangs off the back....

The Mini has 1/4"-20 thread mounts both top and bottom. If I was going to use it with a big zoom, I'd do exactly as you say and mount the rails to the tripod and let the Mini hang off the back. SI has a neat little sled mount for the Mini that would let you tie it into a 15mm lens rod setup.

That stunt with the wooden rails and sandbags had us terrified the whole time :), but hey, you work with what you've got.

Michael Javorka · August 8th, 2007, 01:08 PM

Thanks to all of you for the replies... very helpful. Before it slips my mind... Ari or Jason: I see comments here relative to accessories for the Mini, such as the mention of the sled mount, the LCD monitor, etc. May I ask that you update your website asap with more photo support and depictions of the product, but most importantly - the accessories. It's just sooo hard to commit and cut a check for this amount when I can't A) see a full line of accessories, descriptions, and pricing on the SI website or B) go to a physical facility or dealer to go over how this all fits together. Given the little time and cost it would involve to portray all of the add-ons, lenses, etc. I certainly feel that you website needs to be more complete. Loved the tutorials, however! I just refuse to purchase without knowing what, how much, and how it all works together into a functioning package.

Can someone please explain how their LCD monitor attaches to the Mini? Oh yes.. and how much does it cost?

Finally... I am reassured that I can go ahead, purchase the new top end MacBook Pro, souped up, and get busy filming with a Mini, while waiting for the software for my OS. Sounds from Jason like others are successful in doing so. But, pardon my ignorance, what is "Bootcamp". Will I be acquiring raw footage without the ability to demosaic or process it through Cineform? At that stage (minus the Cineform app) what would I be seeing or submitting to my end user?

Anxious for your ongoing assistance... thanks a ton.

Jason Rodriguez · August 9th, 2007, 07:55 AM

The main reason we haven't posted all the information about the "MINI-rigs" is because they are actually still in development. The only current rigs are from the prototypes we had at NAB from P+S Technik. We should have the finalized versions of the MINI-rigs and associated pricing by IBC. You should also keep you eyes on the P+S Technik website as well.

The MINI's are shipping right now, and there are some other third-party manufacturers who can rig MINI's for you as well, such as Zacuto in Chicago. They have some very nice rigs available, but you will have to call them for pricing information.

Filming with the Macbook Pro's does work right now (under Windows XP and Bootcamp), but the native CineForm RAW for Final Cut Pro workflow is not in place yet. You can edit in Final Cut Pro with the Mac CineForm beta, but not yet with the RAW version of the codec. That should be coming very soon. For the time being you will have to render from CineForm RAW using After Effects to a CineForm 444 Quicktime or another QT codec.

Michael Maier · August 11th, 2007, 06:18 AM

So P+S is manufacturing the SI-2K full body for Silicon Imaging in Germany?

Jason Rodriguez · August 11th, 2007, 10:38 AM

Yes, they are manufacturing it for us, and they will be the distributor for Europe and Asia.

Michael Maier · August 12th, 2007, 12:31 PM

Does this mean people in Europe may get a price cut on it from the U.S. price because it's being manufactured locally and so there will be no transport and importing taxes included in the price?

Jason Rodriguez · August 12th, 2007, 10:14 PM

I don't know . . . you'll have to ask them. I'm not sure what the price in Euro's is.

Teodor Miljevic · August 13th, 2007, 07:19 AM

It is actually a little more expensive due to the low dollar value. Even if i think the camera is good value even for the european price I still think it sucks. It would be nice if we in europe for once could by something cheaper than in america :)

Michael Maier · August 13th, 2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teodor Miljevic

It is actually a little more expensive due to the low dollar value. Even if i think the camera is good value even for the european price I still think it sucks. It would be nice if we in europe for once could by something cheaper than in america :)

Well, actually, because the dollar is so weak in comparison to the euro, it should be cheaper. The SI-2K sells for $23,500. That's 17,250 Euros.
I was just thinking that since even after transport and importing taxes and all the cost involved with bring the camera to the U.S. it will cost $23,500 for the U.S. market, it should cost less in Germany because it's made there and you have no extra expenses.

Teodor Miljevic · August 13th, 2007, 09:03 AM

the si 2k bundle is 19162euro so as usual the europeans draw the short straw again :)

August 7th, 2007, 02:41 PM	#1
Michael Javorka New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20	Now that it's August 7..... I'm a cinematographer in Austin, switching over from 35mm to HD. I principally shoot high end stock and have it repped through Getty. In spite of the promising future of the Red camera, I see that I'd be waiting a long time... well into '08 to own one. In my research, I came across the SI cameras, researched them, watched their tutorials and got excited for a number of reasons. I even spent a day on the phone with Ari Pressler. My question and issue after reading all these threads, is still delivery. What use is a concept and a sales program without delivery? I, like many film and graphics pros, am working on a Mac platform. Last I knew, SI was still 60 days out on having the Cineform ready so they'd "certify" the use of the Mini with my state of the art Mac. Will this 60 days become 6 months? As I read these threads, again, it seems that people are frustrated with delivery. So I ask, as of today, August 7, if I write a check today to SI, will I have an SI-2K in even a month? If I purchase a Mini, can I have on premises inside 2 weeks? And if I do order the Mini (anticipating that the full 2K still isn't shipping... or is backordered) will they provide me certification and/or support for shooting the Mini tethered to my Mac? I guess I'm looking to someone in sales to provide solid answers on delivery. Otherwise, I'll lose a lot more time in production waiting and I might as well consider the Red. Accurate, realistic delivery info is what I believe I'm sensing we all need here.

August 7th, 2007, 03:45 PM	#3
Michael Javorka New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20	thanks.... Thanks, Bob. While I wait for some comment.... I'm curious also what lenses you're using. Do you know which Fujinon primes (what focal length) SI is selling for use with the Mini? Also... curious how you use the Mini without a viewfinder. Are you executing pans and tilts and just monitoring the moves on your laptop?? Does the Mini come with a thread mount for tripod. I assume that when a big zoom is used, as opposed to the primes, that the lens is mounted to the fluid head and the little Mini hangs off the back.... much like still photographers with those huge teles. Any recommendation as to a small to medium fluid head?

August 8th, 2007, 01:08 PM	#7
Michael Javorka New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20	thanks.... Thanks to all of you for the replies... very helpful. Before it slips my mind... Ari or Jason: I see comments here relative to accessories for the Mini, such as the mention of the sled mount, the LCD monitor, etc. May I ask that you update your website asap with more photo support and depictions of the product, but most importantly - the accessories. It's just sooo hard to commit and cut a check for this amount when I can't A) see a full line of accessories, descriptions, and pricing on the SI website or B) go to a physical facility or dealer to go over how this all fits together. Given the little time and cost it would involve to portray all of the add-ons, lenses, etc. I certainly feel that you website needs to be more complete. Loved the tutorials, however! I just refuse to purchase without knowing what, how much, and how it all works together into a functioning package. Can someone please explain how their LCD monitor attaches to the Mini? Oh yes.. and how much does it cost? Finally... I am reassured that I can go ahead, purchase the new top end MacBook Pro, souped up, and get busy filming with a Mini, while waiting for the software for my OS. Sounds from Jason like others are successful in doing so. But, pardon my ignorance, what is "Bootcamp". Will I be acquiring raw footage without the ability to demosaic or process it through Cineform? At that stage (minus the Cineform app) what would I be seeing or submitting to my end user? Anxious for your ongoing assistance... thanks a ton.

August 7th, 2007, 03:29 PM	#2
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	I know of at least two of the new MINIs in this city, we've had ours for around a month now. I can't say how many more SI have in stock but there seems to be no problems in supply of the MINIs. As for the full camera I'll leave that upto SI to comment on.

August 7th, 2007, 05:27 PM	#4
John DeLuca Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 496	Michael- SI-2K full body shipping- SI told us the first lot (which I believe is sold out) may be shipping in a couple weeks. I plan on posting pics for the board when it arrives. Fuji Primes- We own a few. IMO Frankly I wish I never got them. They can’t be opened up or closed down without problems. They are to soft. They don’t have gearing or calibrated barrel markings (absolutely critical for any ‘real’ work). Every F-Stop clicks into place. They come into focus to fast (a slight turn of the ring will snap focus). Again this is my opinion. Monitor- We use the 1920x1200 Dell M90 monitor. You can focus, pan and tilt the same way you would with a broadcast monitor. SI sells a small LCD you can mount above the camera head (this will give you better shot dexterity). Thread mount- Yes it comes with thread mounts on the top and bottom of the camera head. **I assume that when a big zoom is used, as opposed to the primes, that the lens is mounted to the fluid head and the little Mini hangs off the back* It depends on what accessories you have, but check this out- http://dcsimagegalleries.com/DCS2007...xp/index3.html It looks like they are using wooden rods and a sand bag. *Any recommendation as to a small to medium fluid head? We use the Bogen 503 (75mm bowl, supports up to 13lbs) for the mini only and the 526 (100mm bowl, supports up to 35lbs) for the body+payload. I know, I know a lot of people dislike bogen, but IMO it is mostly the operator. I'm curious also what lenses you're using** For now we are using Nikkor Primes for 85% of our shots and the Fujis for everything wide angle. I will probably wait until the 2K-35 (35mm adapter) comes out before I decide to go S16 or 35 lenses. Exposure- We use a hand held light meter or the light meter inside a 35mm SLR (as in a film camera). Its dead on.

August 8th, 2007, 06:59 AM	#5
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Hi, The MINI's are available right now, although we're still waiting for the Final Cut Pro components if you have to work on OSX/Final Cut for editing. Those components should be in-place some-time this month as a beta. You can definitely hook up the MINI to the Mac Pro (or MacBook Pro provided you have the right specs, which are at least a 2.33Ghz and 2GB of RAM) using bootcamp, and record tethered that way. We've had many people in-the-field doing this now. As far as the SI-2K goes, P+S is finishing the final assembly of the first production units this week. That means painted, assembled, everything . . . finished. They then have to QA them before shipping them out (i.e., just because you assembled it doesn't mean it's assembled correctly), which will take probably a week, so I would expect to see parts in the U.S. by the end of the month.

August 9th, 2007, 07:55 AM	#8
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	The main reason we haven't posted all the information about the "MINI-rigs" is because they are actually still in development. The only current rigs are from the prototypes we had at NAB from P+S Technik. We should have the finalized versions of the MINI-rigs and associated pricing by IBC. You should also keep you eyes on the P+S Technik website as well. The MINI's are shipping right now, and there are some other third-party manufacturers who can rig MINI's for you as well, such as Zacuto in Chicago. They have some very nice rigs available, but you will have to call them for pricing information. Filming with the Macbook Pro's does work right now (under Windows XP and Bootcamp), but the native CineForm RAW for Final Cut Pro workflow is not in place yet. You can edit in Final Cut Pro with the Mac CineForm beta, but not yet with the RAW version of the codec. That should be coming very soon. For the time being you will have to render from CineForm RAW using After Effects to a CineForm 444 Quicktime or another QT codec.

August 11th, 2007, 06:18 AM	#9
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	So P+S is manufacturing the SI-2K full body for Silicon Imaging in Germany?

August 11th, 2007, 10:38 AM	#10
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Yes, they are manufacturing it for us, and they will be the distributor for Europe and Asia.

August 12th, 2007, 12:31 PM	#11
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Does this mean people in Europe may get a price cut on it from the U.S. price because it's being manufactured locally and so there will be no transport and importing taxes included in the price?

August 12th, 2007, 10:14 PM	#12
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	I don't know . . . you'll have to ask them. I'm not sure what the price in Euro's is.

August 13th, 2007, 07:19 AM	#13
Teodor Miljevic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 77	It is actually a little more expensive due to the low dollar value. Even if i think the camera is good value even for the european price I still think it sucks. It would be nice if we in europe for once could by something cheaper than in america :)

August 13th, 2007, 09:03 AM	#15
Teodor Miljevic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 77	the si 2k bundle is 19162euro so as usual the europeans draw the short straw again :)