My Entire film for you guys here.

Marcus Marchesseault · May 2nd, 2007, 07:27 PM

Well, I don't see a camera shadow when he's next to her....but whatever on that part. It gets slightly dark when I moved in, but it's not obviously a camera shadow, but more of my shadow.

*Okay, whatever the source of the shadow, it's there. This is something that can easily be fixed by cutting earlier or choosing a different take. It's hard to see all of these things while on set, especially if you don't have a second set of eyes watching the video. You just have to accept that these things happen and work around them.

The audio is mixed excellent in 5.1 and if you are listening to it on anything else it won't sound right.

*I used headphones and vocals were off to one side. Perhaps the conversion to a downloadable format didn't put the speech in the center.

Personally, if you don't like the style, that's totally cool with me. I am who I am. That's my style.

*I didn't say I didn't like your style. Heck, at least you have a style. It may need to be tweaked so it works better across viewing environments and that is all I mentioned (like the video being too dark sometimes).

If you're going to complain about a POV that confused you....certainly it wasn't meant to trick you. I'm not using that to give a generic sense of "someone is in the room". That's your interpretation of it, not mine.

*My interpretation is that of an audience. It is hard to retain objectivity when editing, so I gave you my point of view so you can think about making a simple edit to get the effect on the audience you wanted.

To tell me I need to add a scene of a video system is plain ridiculous.

*I disagree. The video system is set up as being very important in your opening flashback and it's existence in the body of the movie is not pointless.

Also...don't forget.....1 person did everything, me. I had to learn alot.
No one could help me figure out anything. I was on my own for the first time, and I've been told it's crazy good for how many people were involved.

*I don't disagree that you learned a lot. Are you done learning? I know I don't think I can ever know too much about movie production. How will you continue to learn? You say that nobody could help you figure anything out. Who are we on this forum?

You don't think that I wanted to go back and change stuff, add stuff....who doesn't. It's done! Nothing more I can do about it.

*Depending on how you stored your project, there are a few tweaks that could make a real difference. Like I said, it's usually best to go on and you should, but I think a few tweaks would make this movie more likely to do well at film festivals. I'm not talking about doing re-shoots.

Just be realistic when criticising others work.

All I know, is if it wasn't mine.....and I knew it was 1 guy....I'd just say kudos, good job...I'm sure you would have done certain things over, or made changes here and there but you couldn't. Be happy you got it done.

*As strangers and people with some experience like yours, we know exactly what happens in a shoot like this and don't feel a need to spare your feelings like a family member. Your family and friends can't give you tips how to get improvement for this and your future works. We have all been there and know the next steps to take.

I know some people are going to like or dislike it anyways.....I'd rather just take a , "I didn't like it"

*Then you will learn nothing. I never bother to just say "yay" or "nay". Why bother? How can I be of any help to someone if I don't speak up? Do you want to have the same problems on your next shoot? I figured that you want as much knowledge as possible from an objective point of view so you can continue with the learning process and not make the same mistakes twice.

I never said, "I hated it" because I didn't. There were a few technical issues that got in the way while viewing and I know some of them can still be fixed. Keep working on starting your next project and learn from this one. I haven't shown my work on this site because I know exactly what problems I had and don't feel the need for it yet. I have friends locally that have experience who help me out. If you don't have that, we are here.

Marcus Marchesseault · May 2nd, 2007, 10:28 PM

I think this thread deserves some explanation. I think everyone here knows the amazing amount of work it takes for every minute of a movie. There are so many factors to consider and so many jobs that it's amazing that one person can pull it off at all. We all know this and also know that our work will not always be appreciated.

This forum gives movie makers a source of knowledge that can't be easily found in most people's daily lives. Not everyone is going to have an experienced editor looking over their shoulder to help tweak everything. That is where this sort of "peer review" can be very helpful. It is very difficult to maintain objectivity after you spend a hundred hours cutting your movie. There are things like timing that you will get wrong because you have lost objectivity. As an editor, you can never understand what it is like for someone to see your work for the first time. That requires an outside observer that can tell you what doesn't work without walking on eggshells around your feelings.

My previous post are exactly what I would say if I was in the editing bay helping a friend on his final edit. I would sit there and make him change everything that can be changed and he wouldn't be mad at me or feel insulted. We would just get the job done and emotions would never be an issue. Everyone, don't take things so seriously. We are here to help.

Bob Benkosky · May 3rd, 2007, 12:06 AM

Well, at least you cared enough to explain yourself....that's cool.

Sometimes things can sound worse than they are....ya know. I don't know exactly what you are thinking while you write things, as you don't know what it took for me just to get what came out in the end.

I feel more lucky to have pieced together something that at least makes a small movie.

Heck....when I wrote it...it was much, much longer, with much more drama, people, and places. After shooting some of it prior to the scenes in the movie, I realized I'm too much of a perfectionist to make it look like total crap, so I did what you saw in the movie compared to a crap load of tripod shots and putting myself in the movie as another character.

The problem with why I got a bit defensive is because from what I set out to do, and what I ended up with, I pretty much made a masterpiece......just take my word for it.

We are talking about no rehearsals......no nothing....and I feel it's magical how things ended up. It should have been a disaster honestly.
It even 50% of people who watch it , can get thru it and be slightly interested in it.....that's more than enough satisfaction I guess. I'll be honest though....I expected maybe a few people to be slightly amazed at the project.... Just for the fact that I did everything. And no one really said dang...or anything. A bit of a letdown....

I've seen short films by some people that have had wow's and my girlfriend, who is actually very picky at judging films, thought I was better. She was critical on my film, but only because she pays more attention to the background, as like a set designer would.

Give me like a 2 week shoot on the same project and sure....things would turn out far better....

Anyways.....I've spilled the beans, bared my soul..... and I'm just going to let it all go.

I don't have the camera anymore anyways. So if I ever get to direct again.....and I actually get dedicated people, maybe I'll have a bit more time to do more of the actual shooting.

Oh....yes....about the audio.

It's really, really meant for 5.1. I've had headphones on during the movie, and I don't know why, but it just doesn't come out the same.

I mixed it in Vegas 5 and some sounds are strictly panned in real time with the action on the screen. It mainly happened when he gets out of bed and you hear like outside ambience. That pans all around....probably sounds like crap on headphones.

Anyways..... put it on disc and watch it on someone's 5.1 system if you can. I'd say it makes the film about 50% better. Seriously. Just sounds more professional. I'm not being biased either because I've tested it to hear what others might be hearing on stereo systems and I didn't want to make a seperate mix, sorry.

Marcus Marchesseault · May 3rd, 2007, 12:40 AM

My suggestion would be to take this and get connected with other people in your area that make movies. There are few people that can do all the jobs even adequately, so you certainly will have abilities people will value. I have been working on other people's projects and focusing on camera and lighting. Those things are often what is lacking and are also skills most useful to other people that want to shoot their story.

You may have noticed that getting good shots on the first few tries makes everything easier later. Also, post-production is cheap if you do it all yourself, but you must make sure your on-set capabilities are honed to avoid wasting the time of the whole crew. Practice these skills on other people's works and have fun along the way. Once I got to a point that I'm happy with those abilities, I started out on my own first big project that is almost ready to start shooting.

You are actually ahead of me in that you made your own first film from start to finish and that's something to be proud of. Don't feel bad if people don't recognize your accomplishment on your first try. Just think how good your future productions will be with the knowledge you gained on this project.

Matt Newcomb · May 3rd, 2007, 01:23 AM

I think what you have to keep in mind is that people are being nit picky about everything for your benefit. There are a lot of things right with what you did. Some of your shots look amazing, but there are a lot of other things that you could have done better, and we tend to group all the good things into, overall the style was good, as opposed to lots of bullet point items for the bad things.

Personally I would say you did a great job, but you can tell you had a limited schedule because there is a lot of inconsistency. You have some amazing shots and then some that are poorly lit. You need someone dedicated to sound to get better source stuff to work with. As everyone says, you always want to start with the best source video to work with, the same goes for audio.

I agree with the constraints you had it turned out great, but movies don't win awards for looking good for being shot in a certain time period unless it's a 48 hour film contest. You got to have a thick skin to do what we do since our goal is to have a bunch of people see our product, so just realize nobody is doing it to put you down, just to make you better and give you ideas on what you can improve on.

Bob Benkosky · July 26th, 2010, 01:00 AM

YouTube - alphazoom's Channel

Well....it's been awhile...so long in fact, I googled my name to find this post.

This thread will be like coming back from the dead.

I've done a few trailers...fanmade of course to keep up on my editing skills. I also have put up songs of mine that didn't make it into my film...well...because I believe the hard drive that has the movie on was on an external drive and it's power supply died. If I could go back and remix the audio, I would...for the simple fact taht I agree...there's too much music. I honestly felt I would never direct again , not because of not having the drive or ability, but simply because it's just too hard to get people together and do things correctly...especially not having a budget. I am not hanging out with high schoolers anymore...it's serious. If it doesn't come out well...it doesn't come out well...there's no second chances.

Daniel Messier my lead has moved to LA and is now on Cinemax. Go figure...
Amber has moved to NY and is taking more acting lessons and doing some modelling.

Me....sitting at home composing more music but not working or making any money.... Life sucks...but at least I'm not giving in to the man.

I do have a song up at CD baby. Support your starving artist if you will.

Bob Benkosky | Passing Strangers | CD Baby

Khalil Ismail · July 31st, 2010, 11:08 AM

Life sucks all around these days, but one can never give up hope. I have passion for film making, need to know too many things and I am trying hard for the little time I have since I am working that is very good these days. I understand what you mean about people not doing what you need when there is no budget. Never give up you are good.

Thomas Moore · August 2nd, 2010, 09:37 AM

Wow, I'm not going to even watch it just for fear of having a negative opinion :)

Don't ever try to get famous, critics aren't going to be as nice or as helpful as what you've recieved here, hell I appreciate the comments critisim I get it helps me grow as a film maker.

May 3rd, 2007, 12:06 AM	#18
Bob Benkosky Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lake Park, Florida Posts: 202	Well, at least you cared enough to explain yourself....that's cool. Sometimes things can sound worse than they are....ya know. I don't know exactly what you are thinking while you write things, as you don't know what it took for me just to get what came out in the end. I feel more lucky to have pieced together something that at least makes a small movie. Heck....when I wrote it...it was much, much longer, with much more drama, people, and places. After shooting some of it prior to the scenes in the movie, I realized I'm too much of a perfectionist to make it look like total crap, so I did what you saw in the movie compared to a crap load of tripod shots and putting myself in the movie as another character. The problem with why I got a bit defensive is because from what I set out to do, and what I ended up with, I pretty much made a masterpiece......just take my word for it. We are talking about no rehearsals......no nothing....and I feel it's magical how things ended up. It should have been a disaster honestly. It even 50% of people who watch it , can get thru it and be slightly interested in it.....that's more than enough satisfaction I guess. I'll be honest though....I expected maybe a few people to be slightly amazed at the project.... Just for the fact that I did everything. And no one really said dang...or anything. A bit of a letdown.... I've seen short films by some people that have had wow's and my girlfriend, who is actually very picky at judging films, thought I was better. She was critical on my film, but only because she pays more attention to the background, as like a set designer would. Give me like a 2 week shoot on the same project and sure....things would turn out far better.... Anyways.....I've spilled the beans, bared my soul..... and I'm just going to let it all go. I don't have the camera anymore anyways. So if I ever get to direct again.....and I actually get dedicated people, maybe I'll have a bit more time to do more of the actual shooting. Oh....yes....about the audio. It's really, really meant for 5.1. I've had headphones on during the movie, and I don't know why, but it just doesn't come out the same. I mixed it in Vegas 5 and some sounds are strictly panned in real time with the action on the screen. It mainly happened when he gets out of bed and you hear like outside ambience. That pans all around....probably sounds like crap on headphones. Anyways..... put it on disc and watch it on someone's 5.1 system if you can. I'd say it makes the film about 50% better. Seriously. Just sounds more professional. I'm not being biased either because I've tested it to hear what others might be hearing on stereo systems and I didn't want to make a seperate mix, sorry. __________________ http://www.veoh.com/channels/filmmaker My clips and films.

May 3rd, 2007, 01:23 AM	#20
Matt Newcomb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 212	I think what you have to keep in mind is that people are being nit picky about everything for your benefit. There are a lot of things right with what you did. Some of your shots look amazing, but there are a lot of other things that you could have done better, and we tend to group all the good things into, overall the style was good, as opposed to lots of bullet point items for the bad things. Personally I would say you did a great job, but you can tell you had a limited schedule because there is a lot of inconsistency. You have some amazing shots and then some that are poorly lit. You need someone dedicated to sound to get better source stuff to work with. As everyone says, you always want to start with the best source video to work with, the same goes for audio. I agree with the constraints you had it turned out great, but movies don't win awards for looking good for being shot in a certain time period unless it's a 48 hour film contest. You got to have a thick skin to do what we do since our goal is to have a bunch of people see our product, so just realize nobody is doing it to put you down, just to make you better and give you ideas on what you can improve on. __________________ Talenos Productions at http://www.talenos.com

July 26th, 2010, 01:00 AM	#21
Bob Benkosky Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lake Park, Florida Posts: 202	Holy Cow...it's been awhile. YouTube - alphazoom's Channel Well....it's been awhile...so long in fact, I googled my name to find this post. This thread will be like coming back from the dead. I've done a few trailers...fanmade of course to keep up on my editing skills. I also have put up songs of mine that didn't make it into my film...well...because I believe the hard drive that has the movie on was on an external drive and it's power supply died. If I could go back and remix the audio, I would...for the simple fact taht I agree...there's too much music. I honestly felt I would never direct again , not because of not having the drive or ability, but simply because it's just too hard to get people together and do things correctly...especially not having a budget. I am not hanging out with high schoolers anymore...it's serious. If it doesn't come out well...it doesn't come out well...there's no second chances. Daniel Messier my lead has moved to LA and is now on Cinemax. Go figure... Amber has moved to NY and is taking more acting lessons and doing some modelling. Me....sitting at home composing more music but not working or making any money.... Life sucks...but at least I'm not giving in to the man. I do have a song up at CD baby. Support your starving artist if you will. Bob Benkosky \| Passing Strangers \| CD Baby __________________ http://www.veoh.com/channels/filmmaker My clips and films.

July 31st, 2010, 11:08 AM	#22
Khalil Ismail Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Palm Desert California Posts: 42	I liked your trailer very much Life sucks all around these days, but one can never give up hope. I have passion for film making, need to know too many things and I am trying hard for the little time I have since I am working that is very good these days. I understand what you mean about people not doing what you need when there is no budget. Never give up you are good.

May 2nd, 2007, 07:27 PM	#16
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Well, I don't see a camera shadow when he's next to her....but whatever on that part. It gets slightly dark when I moved in, but it's not obviously a camera shadow, but more of my shadow. Okay, whatever the source of the shadow, it's there. This is something that can easily be fixed by cutting earlier or choosing a different take. It's hard to see all of these things while on set, especially if you don't have a second set of eyes watching the video. You just have to accept that these things happen and work around them. The audio is mixed excellent in 5.1 and if you are listening to it on anything else it won't sound right. I used headphones and vocals were off to one side. Perhaps the conversion to a downloadable format didn't put the speech in the center. Personally, if you don't like the style, that's totally cool with me. I am who I am. That's my style. I didn't say I didn't like your style. Heck, at least you have a style. It may need to be tweaked so it works better across viewing environments and that is all I mentioned (like the video being too dark sometimes). If you're going to complain about a POV that confused you....certainly it wasn't meant to trick you. I'm not using that to give a generic sense of "someone is in the room". That's your interpretation of it, not mine. My interpretation is that of an audience. It is hard to retain objectivity when editing, so I gave you my point of view so you can think about making a simple edit to get the effect on the audience you wanted. To tell me I need to add a scene of a video system is plain ridiculous. I disagree. The video system is set up as being very important in your opening flashback and it's existence in the body of the movie is not pointless. Also...don't forget.....1 person did everything, me. I had to learn alot. No one could help me figure out anything. I was on my own for the first time, and I've been told it's crazy good for how many people were involved. I don't disagree that you learned a lot. Are you done learning? I know I don't think I can ever know too much about movie production. How will you continue to learn? You say that nobody could help you figure anything out. Who are we on this forum? You don't think that I wanted to go back and change stuff, add stuff....who doesn't. It's done! Nothing more I can do about it. Depending on how you stored your project, there are a few tweaks that could make a real difference. Like I said, it's usually best to go on and you should, but I think a few tweaks would make this movie more likely to do well at film festivals. I'm not talking about doing re-shoots. Just be realistic when criticising others work. All I know, is if it wasn't mine.....and I knew it was 1 guy....I'd just say kudos, good job...I'm sure you would have done certain things over, or made changes here and there but you couldn't. Be happy you got it done. As strangers and people with some experience like yours, we know exactly what happens in a shoot like this and don't feel a need to spare your feelings like a family member. Your family and friends can't give you tips how to get improvement for this and your future works. We have all been there and know the next steps to take. I know some people are going to like or dislike it anyways.....I'd rather just take a , "I didn't like it" *Then you will learn nothing. I never bother to just say "yay" or "nay". Why bother? How can I be of any help to someone if I don't speak up? Do you want to have the same problems on your next shoot? I figured that you want as much knowledge as possible from an objective point of view so you can continue with the learning process and not make the same mistakes twice. I never said, "I hated it" because I didn't. There were a few technical issues that got in the way while viewing and I know some of them can still be fixed. Keep working on starting your next project and learn from this one. I haven't shown my work on this site because I know exactly what problems I had and don't feel the need for it yet. I have friends locally that have experience who help me out. If you don't have that, we are here.

May 2nd, 2007, 10:28 PM	#17
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I think this thread deserves some explanation. I think everyone here knows the amazing amount of work it takes for every minute of a movie. There are so many factors to consider and so many jobs that it's amazing that one person can pull it off at all. We all know this and also know that our work will not always be appreciated. This forum gives movie makers a source of knowledge that can't be easily found in most people's daily lives. Not everyone is going to have an experienced editor looking over their shoulder to help tweak everything. That is where this sort of "peer review" can be very helpful. It is very difficult to maintain objectivity after you spend a hundred hours cutting your movie. There are things like timing that you will get wrong because you have lost objectivity. As an editor, you can never understand what it is like for someone to see your work for the first time. That requires an outside observer that can tell you what doesn't work without walking on eggshells around your feelings. My previous post are exactly what I would say if I was in the editing bay helping a friend on his final edit. I would sit there and make him change everything that can be changed and he wouldn't be mad at me or feel insulted. We would just get the job done and emotions would never be an issue. Everyone, don't take things so seriously. We are here to help.

May 3rd, 2007, 12:40 AM	#19
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	My suggestion would be to take this and get connected with other people in your area that make movies. There are few people that can do all the jobs even adequately, so you certainly will have abilities people will value. I have been working on other people's projects and focusing on camera and lighting. Those things are often what is lacking and are also skills most useful to other people that want to shoot their story. You may have noticed that getting good shots on the first few tries makes everything easier later. Also, post-production is cheap if you do it all yourself, but you must make sure your on-set capabilities are honed to avoid wasting the time of the whole crew. Practice these skills on other people's works and have fun along the way. Once I got to a point that I'm happy with those abilities, I started out on my own first big project that is almost ready to start shooting. You are actually ahead of me in that you made your own first film from start to finish and that's something to be proud of. Don't feel bad if people don't recognize your accomplishment on your first try. Just think how good your future productions will be with the knowledge you gained on this project.

August 2nd, 2010, 09:37 AM	#23
Thomas Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 198	Wow, I'm not going to even watch it just for fear of having a negative opinion :) Don't ever try to get famous, critics aren't going to be as nice or as helpful as what you've recieved here, hell I appreciate the comments critisim I get it helps me grow as a film maker.