Dodge Srt-4 Promo/Commerical

Chris Hurd · May 2nd, 2003, 10:04 AM

About the budget, I think $20K USD is realistic, almost a bit low for a four-day crewed shoot. The question is never "can I do it for $1000" or how low can you do it for. It's always a question of results and what will the market bear. This is a major corporation he's dealing with... if he went to them and said, "I can do it for $1000," they'd laugh him out of the office. For a national or regional ad, or even if it's just for the web, from an automobile manufacturer, $20K for something like this a good deal.

They expect to have to pay a certain amount, and if you propose a bid that's substantially lower, then they won't take you seriously. However if you're charging a competitive rate and you can deliver top-quality work on time without going over budget, you'll get called back for more. Like Marc said, you figure in the crew, locations, security, craft services, clearances, the grip truck, etc. and you've eaten up a lot of cash. If you say, well, I can do it for a lot less but I need to jump through some hoops to get it done, then forget it... they want results fast, they want it turned around quickly without hassles or hang-ups or waiting for you to get all your ducks in a row... you just have to go out and hire all these elements and bring everything together quickly and professionally.

You can't compare El Mariachi for $7K because that was an anamoly, that was Rodriguez working outside of the envelope on his own time with guerilla methods. That approach doesn't apply in the corporate world of agencies and deadlines. Twenty grand for four days, that doesn't sound high to me at all, sounds right on the nose or even a little low for a Dodge commercial. It's not about what *you* would do it for, it's about what's normal for that market.

Bob Benkosky · May 3rd, 2003, 12:06 AM

Yea, give us a new link soon, I want to see it myself.

I agree with John whole heartedly about kids being kids.
The rush of racing on the street is partially the danger aspect. If there was no cops and no danger, I feel it would get a bit boring. I'm not even a street racer either. Everything nowadays is blamed on media because someone is so STUPID to try and top a jackass stunt or Fast and Furious race. Are kids just dumb???

If I was to do something and get hurt or get someone else hurt I'd take the blame. People need to take responsibilty for their OWN actions.

If you see a movie with someone shooting heroine, are you going to run out and become a junky...??? It's just dumb. People do what makes them happy regardless of what it is. Car racing, drugs, sex, you name it. What's shown on TV or in theaters is mostly based on glorified truths anyhow. Murder happens. Racing happens. Drugs happen. Suicide happens. Everything happens.

The people who blame media are just clueless and stay clueless. Parents are important too.....tell your kids if you do this, you can die.... if he still chooses to do it, then he obviously cares more about doing whatever he's doing more than life at that moment. Even racing for a living, legally gets people killed.

Rob Lohman · May 3rd, 2003, 03:54 AM

I agree completely with Chris. Also don't forget that we are
talking DANGEROUS work here. Driving cars at high speeds and/or
stunting with them (I haven't seen the video since I was too
late and it got pulled off the website) takes a lot of money
for special stunt drivers, safety AND INSURANCE. Sure I can
shoot a illegal street race with my buddies and my camera but
what if someone smashes his car up? What is someone gets
hurt or dies?

Now if it was someone talking while sitting at a table the figures
would have been different I'm sure. But don't forget that this
is something completely different!

Dylan Couper · May 3rd, 2003, 08:43 AM

Rob, based on what I saw in the video, I don't think they broke the speed limit while shooting, although he did say there were $7000 in permits to be purchased.

Dylan Couper · May 3rd, 2003, 09:02 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Benkosky : Yea, give us a new link soon, I want to see it myself.

I agree with John whole heartedly about kids being kids.
The rush of racing on the street is partially the danger aspect. If there was no cops and no danger, I feel it would get a bit boring. I'm not even a street racer either. Everything nowadays is blamed on media because someone is so STUPID to try and top a jackass stunt or Fast and Furious race. Are kids just dumb??? -->>>

Yes kids are dumb. Since you have no real information about street racing, let me tell you, it's got nothing to do with danger. It's about bragging rights and the rush of speed. Mostly bragging rights.

<<<--
If I was to do something and get hurt or get someone else hurt I'd take the blame. People need to take responsibilty for their OWN actions.
-->>>

You'd take the blame if you hit someone while racing and killed them? What if you killed someones child, or someones father or mother? What does taking the blame do for the family of the person you murdered?

<<<--
If you see a movie with someone shooting heroine, are you going to run out and become a junky...??? It's just dumb. People do what makes them happy regardless of what it is. Car racing, drugs, sex, you name it. What's shown on TV or in theaters is mostly based on glorified truths anyhow. Murder happens. Racing happens. Drugs happen. Suicide happens. Everything happens.
-->>>

You are missing the point. Racing happens. When something like Fast and the Furious happens, street racing happens to a multiple of 10x. 10x the people racing means 10x the deaths. Get the point now? Kids (under 25?) are dumb and easily influenced as to what's cool, dangerous or not.

<<<--
The people who blame media are just clueless and stay clueless. -->>>

If you think the media doesn't affect peoples judgement, you should check out this really great video on purchasing swamp land in Florida....

Now don't get me wrong, I'm against censorship in the media. This whole arguement stems from the fact that Dodge promoted an illegal activity in advertising their product. I don't believe companies should promote crime to sell things.

Bob Benkosky · May 3rd, 2003, 02:41 PM

And beach property used to be really cheap, look at it now...... 2 sides of the coin, always.

Nothing but your brain decides what you are going to do. Not TV/Movies/Magazines.

You make a choice and you must live with it whether or not it's good or bad.

And of course, most people are dumb. They will see Fast/Furious and go out, spend mommie and daddie's money and trick out a car and go kill themselves or someone else's kid. It's not a nice thing, but it happens.

People make up their mind on whether or not something gets done or not....it's really THAT simple. That kid that he/she hits in a race is unfortunately a side effect of that person's judgement. Just because he/she saw a racing commercial or movie doesn't mean he might not have done it anyways, maybe at a different time.

According to religious people, life has already happened, we just go thru the motions. The decisions we make have already been made.

Dylan Couper · May 3rd, 2003, 08:07 PM

So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising?

Teo Coxman · May 4th, 2003, 02:47 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? -->>>
(Satire)
I think we should go to war with Canada right after we topple Iraq...You Canadians are a menace to the film business and need to be dealt with...No one cares about your opinion until you stop living off our tax dollars and stop Vancouver and Toronto from Whoring out all our work...Now go away...And bring me a beer...Nice job on the commercial kid.

Adrian Seah · May 4th, 2003, 05:31 PM

For what its worth, El Mariachi was not MADE for $7K- it was SHOT for $7K, it was MADE for $220,000 (after post production etc.). The whole $7K thing just makes for better marketing.

Jeff Donald · May 4th, 2003, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Nothing but your brain decides what you are going to do. Not TV/Movies/Magazines.

Nothing influences the brain. Whatever you are born with is what you have. Your lot in life is cast the moment your born.

That smacks of predestiny and taking no responsibility for your actions. After all nothing influences the mind and everything is preordained.

Dylan Couper · May 5th, 2003, 06:29 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Teo Coxman : <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? -->>>
(Satire)
I think we should go to war with Canada right after we topple Iraq...You Canadians are a menace to the film business and need to be dealt with...No one cares about your opinion until you stop living off our tax dollars and stop Vancouver and Toronto from Whoring out all our work...Now go away...And bring me a beer...Nice job on the commercial kid. -->>>

Don't make me get of the igloo, dust off the dog sled, and mush down there to give you the business end of my hockey stick over your shins.... You won't be able to drink the pain away... Not on American beer at least... :D

Teo Coxman · May 6th, 2003, 12:17 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : <<<-- Originally posted by Teo Coxman : <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? -->>>
(Satire)
I think we should go to war with Canada right after we topple Iraq...You Canadians are a menace to the film business and need to be dealt with...No one cares about your opinion until you stop living off our tax dollars and stop Vancouver and Toronto from Whoring out all our work...Now go away...And bring me a beer...Nice job on the commercial kid. -->>>

Don't make me get of the igloo, dust off the dog sled, and mush down there to give you the business end of my hockey stick over your shins.... You won't be able to drink the pain away... Not on American beer at least... :D -->>>

he he...This guy's all right....

Matt Pope · May 6th, 2003, 02:53 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : About the budget, I think $20K USD is realistic, almost a bit low for a four-day crewed shoot.... -->>>

Well said Chris!! I thought $20k was a pretty reasonable price for the client for a number of reason:

- Like Chris said, you may be able to do it if you call in all your favors and friends and cut corners and use free locations, etc. But that's not something you can do for every project you're hired for. You save those shoots for your own projects, not the client's. And don't say anything about working just as hard for a client - it's not about that. It's about charging a reasonable and fair rate that the client could expect to get again if they wanted to without them expecting you to call your mom to cook food for the crew.

- Have you ever rented a bank of HMI's? You still think you could do this for "under $200" or "under $1k"?

- Do you expect his time and effort to be unpaid? Notice he didn't say it cost HIM $20k - he said it cost the client $20k. I hope at least a few thousand of that went to him for his services...

<<<-- Originally posted by Adrian Seah : For what its worth, El Mariachi was not MADE for $7K- it was SHOT for $7K, it was MADE for $220,000 (after post production etc.). The whole $7K thing just makes for better marketing. -->>>

Adrian - that's not completely true. It was finished in it's entirety for $7k, just not on film. They spent the extra $100k's you're talking about to re-edit, sync, promote and distribute to theaters, but the entire finished, edited VIDEO was done for $7k (actually, I think it was about $6k). Of course, we're all going on Rodriguez's word for this, so who knows for sure...

Yang Wen · June 1st, 2003, 08:40 AM

Sorry, I thought the video looked too much like "video". Didn't really make good use of the DVX100. The lighting was pretty subpar also, especially the couch scenes.

Bob Benkosky · June 1st, 2003, 11:26 AM

Too bad I could never see it. :(

May 2nd, 2003, 10:04 AM	#31
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	About the budget, I think $20K USD is realistic, almost a bit low for a four-day crewed shoot. The question is never "can I do it for $1000" or how low can you do it for. It's always a question of results and what will the market bear. This is a major corporation he's dealing with... if he went to them and said, "I can do it for $1000," they'd laugh him out of the office. For a national or regional ad, or even if it's just for the web, from an automobile manufacturer, $20K for something like this a good deal. They expect to have to pay a certain amount, and if you propose a bid that's substantially lower, then they won't take you seriously. However if you're charging a competitive rate and you can deliver top-quality work on time without going over budget, you'll get called back for more. Like Marc said, you figure in the crew, locations, security, craft services, clearances, the grip truck, etc. and you've eaten up a lot of cash. If you say, well, I can do it for a lot less but I need to jump through some hoops to get it done, then forget it... they want results fast, they want it turned around quickly without hassles or hang-ups or waiting for you to get all your ducks in a row... you just have to go out and hire all these elements and bring everything together quickly and professionally. You can't compare El Mariachi for $7K because that was an anamoly, that was Rodriguez working outside of the envelope on his own time with guerilla methods. That approach doesn't apply in the corporate world of agencies and deadlines. Twenty grand for four days, that doesn't sound high to me at all, sounds right on the nose or even a little low for a Dodge commercial. It's not about what you would do it for, it's about what's normal for that market. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 3rd, 2003, 12:06 AM	#32
Bob Benkosky Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lake Park, Florida Posts: 202	Yea, give us a new link soon, I want to see it myself. I agree with John whole heartedly about kids being kids. The rush of racing on the street is partially the danger aspect. If there was no cops and no danger, I feel it would get a bit boring. I'm not even a street racer either. Everything nowadays is blamed on media because someone is so STUPID to try and top a jackass stunt or Fast and Furious race. Are kids just dumb??? If I was to do something and get hurt or get someone else hurt I'd take the blame. People need to take responsibilty for their OWN actions. If you see a movie with someone shooting heroine, are you going to run out and become a junky...??? It's just dumb. People do what makes them happy regardless of what it is. Car racing, drugs, sex, you name it. What's shown on TV or in theaters is mostly based on glorified truths anyhow. Murder happens. Racing happens. Drugs happen. Suicide happens. Everything happens. The people who blame media are just clueless and stay clueless. Parents are important too.....tell your kids if you do this, you can die.... if he still chooses to do it, then he obviously cares more about doing whatever he's doing more than life at that moment. Even racing for a living, legally gets people killed. __________________ http://www.veoh.com/channels/filmmaker My clips and films.

May 3rd, 2003, 03:54 AM	#33
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I agree completely with Chris. Also don't forget that we are talking DANGEROUS work here. Driving cars at high speeds and/or stunting with them (I haven't seen the video since I was too late and it got pulled off the website) takes a lot of money for special stunt drivers, safety AND INSURANCE. Sure I can shoot a illegal street race with my buddies and my camera but what if someone smashes his car up? What is someone gets hurt or dies? Now if it was someone talking while sitting at a table the figures would have been different I'm sure. But don't forget that this is something completely different! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 3rd, 2003, 08:43 AM	#34
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Rob, based on what I saw in the video, I don't think they broke the speed limit while shooting, although he did say there were $7000 in permits to be purchased. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

May 3rd, 2003, 09:02 AM	#35
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Benkosky : Yea, give us a new link soon, I want to see it myself. I agree with John whole heartedly about kids being kids. The rush of racing on the street is partially the danger aspect. If there was no cops and no danger, I feel it would get a bit boring. I'm not even a street racer either. Everything nowadays is blamed on media because someone is so STUPID to try and top a jackass stunt or Fast and Furious race. Are kids just dumb??? -->>> Yes kids are dumb. Since you have no real information about street racing, let me tell you, it's got nothing to do with danger. It's about bragging rights and the rush of speed. Mostly bragging rights. <<<-- If I was to do something and get hurt or get someone else hurt I'd take the blame. People need to take responsibilty for their OWN actions. -->>> You'd take the blame if you hit someone while racing and killed them? What if you killed someones child, or someones father or mother? What does taking the blame do for the family of the person you murdered? <<<-- If you see a movie with someone shooting heroine, are you going to run out and become a junky...??? It's just dumb. People do what makes them happy regardless of what it is. Car racing, drugs, sex, you name it. What's shown on TV or in theaters is mostly based on glorified truths anyhow. Murder happens. Racing happens. Drugs happen. Suicide happens. Everything happens. -->>> You are missing the point. Racing happens. When something like Fast and the Furious happens, street racing happens to a multiple of 10x. 10x the people racing means 10x the deaths. Get the point now? Kids (under 25?) are dumb and easily influenced as to what's cool, dangerous or not. <<<-- The people who blame media are just clueless and stay clueless. -->>> If you think the media doesn't affect peoples judgement, you should check out this really great video on purchasing swamp land in Florida.... Now don't get me wrong, I'm against censorship in the media. This whole arguement stems from the fact that Dodge promoted an illegal activity in advertising their product. I don't believe companies should promote crime to sell things. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

May 3rd, 2003, 02:41 PM	#36
Bob Benkosky Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lake Park, Florida Posts: 202	And beach property used to be really cheap, look at it now...... 2 sides of the coin, always. Nothing but your brain decides what you are going to do. Not TV/Movies/Magazines. You make a choice and you must live with it whether or not it's good or bad. And of course, most people are dumb. They will see Fast/Furious and go out, spend mommie and daddie's money and trick out a car and go kill themselves or someone else's kid. It's not a nice thing, but it happens. People make up their mind on whether or not something gets done or not....it's really THAT simple. That kid that he/she hits in a race is unfortunately a side effect of that person's judgement. Just because he/she saw a racing commercial or movie doesn't mean he might not have done it anyways, maybe at a different time. According to religious people, life has already happened, we just go thru the motions. The decisions we make have already been made. __________________ http://www.veoh.com/channels/filmmaker My clips and films.

May 3rd, 2003, 08:07 PM	#37
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

May 4th, 2003, 02:47 PM	#38
Teo Coxman New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 13	<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? -->>> (Satire) I think we should go to war with Canada right after we topple Iraq...You Canadians are a menace to the film business and need to be dealt with...No one cares about your opinion until you stop living off our tax dollars and stop Vancouver and Toronto from Whoring out all our work...Now go away...And bring me a beer...Nice job on the commercial kid.

May 4th, 2003, 05:31 PM	#39
Adrian Seah Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 87	For what its worth, El Mariachi was not MADE for $7K- it was SHOT for $7K, it was MADE for $220,000 (after post production etc.). The whole $7K thing just makes for better marketing.

May 5th, 2003, 06:29 PM	#41
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	<<<-- Originally posted by Teo Coxman : <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? -->>> (Satire) I think we should go to war with Canada right after we topple Iraq...You Canadians are a menace to the film business and need to be dealt with...No one cares about your opinion until you stop living off our tax dollars and stop Vancouver and Toronto from Whoring out all our work...Now go away...And bring me a beer...Nice job on the commercial kid. -->>> Don't make me get of the igloo, dust off the dog sled, and mush down there to give you the business end of my hockey stick over your shins.... You won't be able to drink the pain away... Not on American beer at least... :D __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

May 6th, 2003, 12:17 AM	#42
Teo Coxman New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 13	<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : <<<-- Originally posted by Teo Coxman : <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? -->>> (Satire) I think we should go to war with Canada right after we topple Iraq...You Canadians are a menace to the film business and need to be dealt with...No one cares about your opinion until you stop living off our tax dollars and stop Vancouver and Toronto from Whoring out all our work...Now go away...And bring me a beer...Nice job on the commercial kid. -->>> Don't make me get of the igloo, dust off the dog sled, and mush down there to give you the business end of my hockey stick over your shins.... You won't be able to drink the pain away... Not on American beer at least... :D -->>> he he...This guy's all right....

May 6th, 2003, 02:53 PM	#43
Matt Pope Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ATL Posts: 83	<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : About the budget, I think $20K USD is realistic, almost a bit low for a four-day crewed shoot.... -->>> Well said Chris!! I thought $20k was a pretty reasonable price for the client for a number of reason: - Like Chris said, you may be able to do it if you call in all your favors and friends and cut corners and use free locations, etc. But that's not something you can do for every project you're hired for. You save those shoots for your own projects, not the client's. And don't say anything about working just as hard for a client - it's not about that. It's about charging a reasonable and fair rate that the client could expect to get again if they wanted to without them expecting you to call your mom to cook food for the crew. - Have you ever rented a bank of HMI's? You still think you could do this for "under $200" or "under $1k"? - Do you expect his time and effort to be unpaid? Notice he didn't say it cost HIM $20k - he said it cost the client $20k. I hope at least a few thousand of that went to him for his services... <<<-- Originally posted by Adrian Seah : For what its worth, El Mariachi was not MADE for $7K- it was SHOT for $7K, it was MADE for $220,000 (after post production etc.). The whole $7K thing just makes for better marketing. -->>> Adrian - that's not completely true. It was finished in it's entirety for $7k, just not on film. They spent the extra $100k's you're talking about to re-edit, sync, promote and distribute to theaters, but the entire finished, edited VIDEO was done for $7k (actually, I think it was about $6k). Of course, we're all going on Rodriguez's word for this, so who knows for sure...

June 1st, 2003, 08:40 AM	#44
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	Sorry, I thought the video looked too much like "video". Didn't really make good use of the DVX100. The lighting was pretty subpar also, especially the couch scenes.

June 1st, 2003, 11:26 AM	#45
Bob Benkosky Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lake Park, Florida Posts: 202	Too bad I could never see it. :( __________________ http://www.veoh.com/channels/filmmaker My clips and films.