"below" short film made in 72 Hours shot on DVX100 - Magic Bullet

Nick Weeks · February 10th, 2006, 01:40 PM

Yea... I thought it was a little too washed out, but great movie. I loved the story! Do you have any higher quality version of this in WMV format or MPEG?

Adam Smith · February 12th, 2006, 10:57 AM

Awesome!!! I watched it three times!

I kinda dig the overexposed, washed out look....really supports the story, I think. I didn't pick up on the dancers until the second time I watched it....of course they're victims.....

BUT....my one question.....what is that electronic song near the middle? That is a great little piece of music....care to share where it comes from?

Clark Kline · February 13th, 2006, 09:24 AM

thanks again!

I am trying to get a larger version online...at least an ipod version and maybe a WMV...

the electronic song? for the dance number? that was a piece from Danny the Dog that I remixed a little.

Dean Orewiler · February 18th, 2006, 07:15 PM

I think it's being a little crass to nit pick the technical aspect of it without really asking the artist first why certain things were done. Art is very subjective - and almost anything goes. I like artists who color outside the pretty outlines....our society (educational system) has brainwashed us that everything has to be squeaky clean - no camera shake, no grain, perfect exposure - that is people "following the leader" and you'll never get anywhere in the film world by doing so....So, with this in mind, you did a great job if it reflects your intent of the film - Don't be like everybody else - everybody else sucks and that is why producers are looking for people who have a different approach - hence by looking at the upcoming directors who have a FRESH vision. Excellent job.

Travis Cossel · February 18th, 2006, 07:50 PM

I disagree with not voicing criticism until you have 'asked the artist'. The reason? Simple. When you create something artistic (movie, painting, book, whatever) it has to stand on it's own. The artist can't be there to guide the audience on the choices he made. His work must do that.

This is one of the primary reasons that I ask people to review any of my work. I need to know that they are getting what I want them to get FROM MY WORK.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

Nick Weeks · February 18th, 2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

I disagree with not voicing criticism until you have 'asked the artist'. The reason? Simple. When you create something artistic (movie, painting, book, whatever) it has to stand on it's own. The artist can't be there to guide the audience on the choices he made. His work must do that.

This is one of the primary reasons that I ask people to review any of my work. I need to know that they are getting what I want them to get FROM MY WORK.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

I agree with you completely, Travis. Artists, whether they be painters, videographers, or photographers all want constructive criticism. I thought it was too washed out. I loved the movie, but me personally thought it should be a little more saturated. No matter what art form it is, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Clark Kline · February 18th, 2006, 08:16 PM

Thanks for all the feedback. This is an interesting discussion Travis and Dean started. I am all for constructive criticism. Being a writer first, I love to get stuff back with red all over it. Doesn't mean I'll listen to it all, but it's good to see reactions (good and bad).

I agree with Travis that a project should stand on its own and all the choices a filmmaker makes should make sense to the project, but also agree with Dean that something doesnt necessarily need to fit into a box that makes it easy for the viewer to enjoy it first time through. If something feels out of place or doesn't quite work for the viewer first time, it isn't necessarily a fault of the filmmaker or the film. Many favorite films of mine I have ultimately resisted and even rejected the first time I saw them...because I didn't quite "get" why they made certain choices...

That being said I still listen to any criticism someone might have. Many times when people are complaining about one thing, it means there is a weakness SOMEWHERE...but not always necessarily the thing they are complaining about.

When we screened our feature film we got a lot of feedback, some great, some negative. The positive was very similar but the negative was all over the place as to why they didn't like it- but reading between the lines we could see exactly what the issue was for those viewers...and used it to improve the cut.

Nick Weeks · February 19th, 2006, 12:03 AM

Be sure to post an updated clip, I'm looking forward to it

Tony Goodman · February 19th, 2006, 07:55 AM

Hi Clarke

Really interesting film, kept my attention right through.

As for explanations, I spent three years at Art College on a DipAD course. The one thing that REALLY annoyed me was that some artists seemed to get more attention paid to their work because they knew how to 'explain' it.

For me, if you have to explain your work, you have failed. But that's just my opinion.

John Lennon said it best when he stated that he wrote for himself and his immediate family, if anyone else related to it or enjoyed it...great!

I think it's called artistic integrity and your work has it. Shaky camera, washed out film and all!!! (All of which I liked BTW)

Keep up the good work

Tony

Clark Kline · February 22nd, 2006, 10:04 AM

Thanks Tony.

I know exactly what you mean about explaining your work... I don't like to do it. People that have read my novel ask questions, but I would rather just hear their theories than to paint it out. Ultimately things don't necessarily need to be explained but people at least to me, need to feel entertained, more learned, or touched in some way for having watched/read it.

Some of the best movies out there CAN'T be fully explained (and shouldn't) The holes are what make them endearing and talked about for years because it allows an interaction with the viewer to fill in the blanks with things that are truer to them.

The feature film we screened last year. 'heads or tails", asked a hell of a lot out of the audience, and many didn't "get" it. Our number one discussion through the making and after the screening was dancing that fine line and if we went too far the one way- was that was a fault of ours or the movie. Do you go after a larger audience or try to seek out the smaller that may really connect with it. And if you go after the smaller, is it a failure to all those that need it explained to them...

Tony Goodman · February 25th, 2006, 02:46 PM

Our number one discussion through the making and after the screening was dancing that fine line and if we went too far the one way- was that was a fault of ours or the movie. Do you go after a larger audience or try to seek out the smaller that may really connect with it. And if you go after the smaller, is it a failure to all those that need it explained to them

Hi Clark

I guess it depends on motivation. Why does one want a large audience? If it is to make money (and we all have to!) or to spread whatever ideas, thoughts or ideals we have, then you have to make it understandable or enjoyable to a wider audience. If you just want to make film that you can sit down and enjoy and feel completely proud of then forget the audience and make it for yourself. You never know they might like that too!

I firmly believe that you can create with integrity and still appeal to a wide enough audience to make a living.

One of my favourite musical artists is Leonard Cohen. I can listen to his music all day, but do I understand all his lyrics? No way, he is far too personal a writer, but I DO get the overall feel of his lyrics, lost love, jealousy, rage, apathy. Why do I need to understand every singlw word? In fact I think I get more enjoyment out of not understanding everything, it adds to the general mystique and mood.

I do not make feature films (just a lowly event videographer) but I did spend eleven years in movie theatre management and if I learned nothing else in that time I did learn that the general movie going public have more sense and sensibility than we give them credit for. No film I ever showed in that eleven years was successful through hype. Yes a big advertising campaign can attract people's attention but if the film stinks, it will bomb! But if the word of mouth is good then it will build and have sustained success.

I think what I am trying to say is, BACK YOURSELF! If you have what it takes then you will be successful if not you will fail. But if you fail by not being true to yourself then won't you always wonder if you could have done it your own way and succeeded?

Tony

Alexandre Lucena · February 25th, 2006, 05:25 PM

If the lady below had watched Kill Bill, she would have found her way out.
My favourite scene: the man gently touches the woman`s hand as they
walk on the sidewalk.

Andrew Todd · February 25th, 2006, 10:54 PM

enjoyed your short.. thats the music from 28 days later isnt it? i recognize it from the scene at the first when he leaves the hospital. awesome job

Clark Kline · February 27th, 2006, 09:11 AM

Tony: I totally agree with you that audiences are underestimated. Look at the current state of television. The number 1 rated shows have storylines that last an entire season or longer...something that was avoided like the plague only a couple years ago because audiences were thought of as being "fickle" with "short attention spans". Now television is bringing us the best stories out there.

"heads or tails" definately doesn't pander to the audience, even in the newer cut...the changes we made were mainly to help get a larger audience on board early enough before they would "check out". i don't think it changes the enjoyment of putting the puzzle together but our first cut demanded quite a bit of their attention, and many people not knowing that going in, missed chunks of details so that by the end they were a bit lost and as such gave up. i agree though, ultimately if it is what the filmmaker wants (and the filmmaker is any good), then it's a success unto itself...no matter how many can enjoy it. Our next feature doesn't pander either but is more about raw emotion than putting pieces of a puzzle together.

Andrew: I'm not sure about 28 Days Later. There is a Godspeed You Black Emporer track during the underground sequence that might be...

February 18th, 2006, 07:15 PM	#19
Dean Orewiler Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 186	nice job I think it's being a little crass to nit pick the technical aspect of it without really asking the artist first why certain things were done. Art is very subjective - and almost anything goes. I like artists who color outside the pretty outlines....our society (educational system) has brainwashed us that everything has to be squeaky clean - no camera shake, no grain, perfect exposure - that is people "following the leader" and you'll never get anywhere in the film world by doing so....So, with this in mind, you did a great job if it reflects your intent of the film - Don't be like everybody else - everybody else sucks and that is why producers are looking for people who have a different approach - hence by looking at the upcoming directors who have a FRESH vision. Excellent job.

February 18th, 2006, 07:50 PM	#20
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	I disagree with not voicing criticism until you have 'asked the artist'. The reason? Simple. When you create something artistic (movie, painting, book, whatever) it has to stand on it's own. The artist can't be there to guide the audience on the choices he made. His work must do that. This is one of the primary reasons that I ask people to review any of my work. I need to know that they are getting what I want them to get FROM MY WORK. Anyways, just my 2 cents. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

February 19th, 2006, 07:55 AM	#24
Tony Goodman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 70	No explanation needed Hi Clarke Really interesting film, kept my attention right through. As for explanations, I spent three years at Art College on a DipAD course. The one thing that REALLY annoyed me was that some artists seemed to get more attention paid to their work because they knew how to 'explain' it. For me, if you have to explain your work, you have failed. But that's just my opinion. John Lennon said it best when he stated that he wrote for himself and his immediate family, if anyone else related to it or enjoyed it...great! I think it's called artistic integrity and your work has it. Shaky camera, washed out film and all!!! (All of which I liked BTW) Keep up the good work Tony

February 25th, 2006, 10:54 PM	#28
Andrew Todd Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Saint John, CANADA Posts: 633	enjoyed your short.. thats the music from 28 days later isnt it? i recognize it from the scene at the first when he leaves the hospital. awesome job __________________ video : xl2 / letus35xl / bogen 503 photo- canon 1dmkII - bronica etrsi

February 10th, 2006, 01:40 PM	#16
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	Yea... I thought it was a little too washed out, but great movie. I loved the story! Do you have any higher quality version of this in WMV format or MPEG?

February 12th, 2006, 10:57 AM	#17
Adam Smith New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 13	Awesome!!! I watched it three times! I kinda dig the overexposed, washed out look....really supports the story, I think. I didn't pick up on the dancers until the second time I watched it....of course they're victims..... BUT....my one question.....what is that electronic song near the middle? That is a great little piece of music....care to share where it comes from?

February 13th, 2006, 09:24 AM	#18
Clark Kline Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 44	thanks again! I am trying to get a larger version online...at least an ipod version and maybe a WMV... the electronic song? for the dance number? that was a piece from Danny the Dog that I remixed a little.

February 18th, 2006, 08:16 PM	#22
Clark Kline Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 44	Thanks for all the feedback. This is an interesting discussion Travis and Dean started. I am all for constructive criticism. Being a writer first, I love to get stuff back with red all over it. Doesn't mean I'll listen to it all, but it's good to see reactions (good and bad). I agree with Travis that a project should stand on its own and all the choices a filmmaker makes should make sense to the project, but also agree with Dean that something doesnt necessarily need to fit into a box that makes it easy for the viewer to enjoy it first time through. If something feels out of place or doesn't quite work for the viewer first time, it isn't necessarily a fault of the filmmaker or the film. Many favorite films of mine I have ultimately resisted and even rejected the first time I saw them...because I didn't quite "get" why they made certain choices... That being said I still listen to any criticism someone might have. Many times when people are complaining about one thing, it means there is a weakness SOMEWHERE...but not always necessarily the thing they are complaining about. When we screened our feature film we got a lot of feedback, some great, some negative. The positive was very similar but the negative was all over the place as to why they didn't like it- but reading between the lines we could see exactly what the issue was for those viewers...and used it to improve the cut.

February 19th, 2006, 12:03 AM	#23
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	Be sure to post an updated clip, I'm looking forward to it

February 22nd, 2006, 10:04 AM	#25
Clark Kline Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 44	Thanks Tony. I know exactly what you mean about explaining your work... I don't like to do it. People that have read my novel ask questions, but I would rather just hear their theories than to paint it out. Ultimately things don't necessarily need to be explained but people at least to me, need to feel entertained, more learned, or touched in some way for having watched/read it. Some of the best movies out there CAN'T be fully explained (and shouldn't) The holes are what make them endearing and talked about for years because it allows an interaction with the viewer to fill in the blanks with things that are truer to them. The feature film we screened last year. 'heads or tails", asked a hell of a lot out of the audience, and many didn't "get" it. Our number one discussion through the making and after the screening was dancing that fine line and if we went too far the one way- was that was a fault of ours or the movie. Do you go after a larger audience or try to seek out the smaller that may really connect with it. And if you go after the smaller, is it a failure to all those that need it explained to them...

February 25th, 2006, 02:46 PM	#26
Tony Goodman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 70	Our number one discussion through the making and after the screening was dancing that fine line and if we went too far the one way- was that was a fault of ours or the movie. Do you go after a larger audience or try to seek out the smaller that may really connect with it. And if you go after the smaller, is it a failure to all those that need it explained to them Hi Clark I guess it depends on motivation. Why does one want a large audience? If it is to make money (and we all have to!) or to spread whatever ideas, thoughts or ideals we have, then you have to make it understandable or enjoyable to a wider audience. If you just want to make film that you can sit down and enjoy and feel completely proud of then forget the audience and make it for yourself. You never know they might like that too! I firmly believe that you can create with integrity and still appeal to a wide enough audience to make a living. One of my favourite musical artists is Leonard Cohen. I can listen to his music all day, but do I understand all his lyrics? No way, he is far too personal a writer, but I DO get the overall feel of his lyrics, lost love, jealousy, rage, apathy. Why do I need to understand every singlw word? In fact I think I get more enjoyment out of not understanding everything, it adds to the general mystique and mood. I do not make feature films (just a lowly event videographer) but I did spend eleven years in movie theatre management and if I learned nothing else in that time I did learn that the general movie going public have more sense and sensibility than we give them credit for. No film I ever showed in that eleven years was successful through hype. Yes a big advertising campaign can attract people's attention but if the film stinks, it will bomb! But if the word of mouth is good then it will build and have sustained success. I think what I am trying to say is, BACK YOURSELF! If you have what it takes then you will be successful if not you will fail. But if you fail by not being true to yourself then won't you always wonder if you could have done it your own way and succeeded? Tony

February 25th, 2006, 05:25 PM	#27
Alexandre Lucena Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 56	If the lady below had watched Kill Bill, she would have found her way out. My favourite scene: the man gently touches the woman`s hand as they walk on the sidewalk.

February 27th, 2006, 09:11 AM	#29
Clark Kline Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 44	Tony: I totally agree with you that audiences are underestimated. Look at the current state of television. The number 1 rated shows have storylines that last an entire season or longer...something that was avoided like the plague only a couple years ago because audiences were thought of as being "fickle" with "short attention spans". Now television is bringing us the best stories out there. "heads or tails" definately doesn't pander to the audience, even in the newer cut...the changes we made were mainly to help get a larger audience on board early enough before they would "check out". i don't think it changes the enjoyment of putting the puzzle together but our first cut demanded quite a bit of their attention, and many people not knowing that going in, missed chunks of details so that by the end they were a bit lost and as such gave up. i agree though, ultimately if it is what the filmmaker wants (and the filmmaker is any good), then it's a success unto itself...no matter how many can enjoy it. Our next feature doesn't pander either but is more about raw emotion than putting pieces of a puzzle together. Andrew: I'm not sure about 28 Days Later. There is a Godspeed You Black Emporer track during the underground sequence that might be...