Should I work with this composer again?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, but is using a combination of what I think is the best inspiration from different movies wrong? Also, if I use inspiration from movies, that you have never heard of, is that a bad thing? Or what movies are we talking about here, that you haven't seen?

Plus is using template music from other scores, bad? I thoiught it would help give the composer an idea, unless we should come up with original music, with no templates to get any ideas from?

[Brian Drysdale]

The thing is that everything you do seem to have bits of movies as a template..

Sure people use them as a short hand as a starting point for some shots or idea, there's nothing new in that, painters have done it for hundreds of years. The reclining nude woman (Venus) has been much used, although, I suspect, there are only a handful of pictures which have made full use of it, so that the painting does more than titillate

The issue here is that you seem to be so locked into the reference and then asking if it's OK. It works in the context of the original film and possibly it will work in your film, but we don't know if you've got the resources to do it or much about your film and how it fits in..

Almost, certainly it will take longer than your 1 page every 30 minutes work rate. I was watching a documentary interviewing directors from the studio days in Hollywood and they were doing 2 pages a day.

If you're using a composer, why are you expecting them not to come up with something original? You can use a musical reference, but that's the kicking off point. You appear to be getting into the trap of falling in love with the temp tracks. There are a number of films which ended up with the temp tracks in the soundtrack, the best known being 2001.

[Paul R Johnson]

I want to say thank you to Ryan - I needed a piece of music for a production I'm putting together and suddenly realised that Once Upon A Time In America will fit perfectly - with the damn pan pipe. Had it not been for this topic, I'd have never made the link. I've got to get rid of the panpipe of course and replace it with something else - but some other kind of woodwind will be better!

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, well if I were to do 2 pages a day it would be like a 50 day shoot for a feature for example. I talked to the professor from my film school and he says on my budget I should be aiming for 10 pages a day, unless he is incorrect on that?

I see what you mean about making original music and not wanting to rip off the track. But I don't want the composer to do something so different that it's not at all what I want either though of course.

Here is one of the template tracks I have in mind for example:

Scorpio Takes the Bait - YouTube

One of the instruments is a flute, which makes that unique sound. So I do want a similar sound effect, but it doesn't have to be the same type of flute. Just some kind of flute, which would produce something similar but perhaps much more different or more original as well.

But is telling the composer I want a somewhat similar type track, with a flute that can make that kind of sound, micromanaging?

[Brian Drysdale]

Some how you don't seem to think logically, I was giving an example of the shooting rate on a Hollywood feature film. that doesn't mean that you need to use that, although on a complex day on a key scene you may need to. After all, Hitchcock spent a week of a 4 week shoot filming the shower scene.

How correct your professor is depends on how well you manage to talk your cast and crew into working on a longer schedule. I wouldn't use it as an absolute figure,,getting that number of pages involves 12 to 14 hour days. You attempting it by shooting 10 pages in 5 hours will mean that you'll always be at the same level and you won't progress.

Regarding music "The Incredibles" director wanted the brass sound associated with John Barry and the Bond films. They used music from "On Her Majesties Secret Service" in the trailer.

The Incredibles (2004) Trailer #1 | Movieclips Classic Trailers - YouTube

However Barry turned it down, so the director selected Michael Giacchino, who.knowing what he wanted went for a similar brass sound. He even recorded it using analogue recorders to get the same feel,

incredibles theme song - YouTube

Ryan, I don't know why you keep going around in circles, this is a simple conversation with your composer. It shouldn't involve needless pages in a forum.

[Ryan Elder]

Yes, you are right, sorry, I will ask the composer.

Well as for how long it would take a two shoot for a day, for example, one scene I have is four pages about. I was thinking I could shoot it in two shots. So if I have two cameras, and do 10 takes, that may add up to only an hour of actual time the cameras are rolling. So that scene would probably save time for example then, if I do two cameras and only two shots, but should the shoot be longer?

[Brian Drysdale]

Work out the maths for yourself.

This is all how long is a piece of string? Every scene is different, so no one can give you answer without knowing the content of the scenes.

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah, I am just worried if I only do two shots only, will that come off as lazy to viewers. Or maybe they will not notice as long as it's good.

[Brian Drysdale]

Given that some films have scenes that only have a single shot, I don't see your logic.

Shoot scenes the way that they need to be filmed in order to tell the story in the best manner. This could be in a single shot or fifty shots, the only person who knows is the director, since they're the one telling it.

You're asking questions only the director can answer, because no one here knows anything about your film or the content of the scenes..

[Paul R Johnson]

Do you really think the public actually notice how many shots you use per scene? They notice the story, and only consider the mechanics when the story is rubbish and their minds wander from the subject matter.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, well why do other directors bother to get so many more shots for a simple dialogue scene, if all you need is 1 or 2? Is it worth spending the extra money and time then, or why do producers let them get so many extra shots throughout a movie, if it's not necessary?

[Brian Drysdale]

The number of shots depend on the style and nature of the film, together with dramatic content of the scene. Some will work as a single sweeping shot, while other are more about jagged exchanges.

Producers like more shots because it gives them more control during the edit. Remember, very few directors will get the final cut. That's why some extremely well known directors working in the Hollywood studio system shot only what they needed. It meant the studio couldn't interfere by changing things in the editing room.

Hitchcock did it by holding a script up in front of the lens, when he wanted to cut.. .

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, I just thought producers would want less shots than directors normally, since they are the ones with the money on the line, and trying to save on budget when they can.

[Paul R Johnson]

Are your producers experienced in the movie field? You seem to assume that at your level you have to constantly work as if you are a major production company. A small enterprise simply doesn't work like this. In your movies you say it's a ryan wray production. It's your baby. At this level you don't have to work in this rigid way that is necessary when your production team is dozens of people and loads of actors. Do your producers even know what an edit suit even is? You have this thing about scripts and pages per day. Are you not really thinking in scenes rather than pages? You are going to say a library to film a scene that has two actors and will last three minutes on screen. So you look at the script and think we can do that in a morning, and hour for set up, a couple of hours for shooting then 45 mins to get packed away? Maybe you've done a read through with the cast locally? You know which sections are likely to cause trouble, so they've already rehearsed that bit till its sorted. The location is therefore all about technicalities.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh okay, I just thought producers would want less shots than directors normally, since they are the ones with the money on the line, and trying to save on budget when they can.

On funded productions, the producers rarely have their personal money on the line, it's the studios, the commissioner or other funders who have the money on the line. Producers are more concerned about staying on schedule, during the pre production the director will have informed the 1st assistant director and production manager how many shots they plan to shoot during the schedule planning.. It's during development when producers will invest their company's money in getting funding, buying options etc. Funding a film can get pretty complex, usually the number producers and executive producers reveals how complex.

The director will usually try to keep on schedule, although events may cause delays. It's line producers who try to save on budget, sometimes they may receive a percentage of the budget savings they make. However, it's not their job to decide on the number of shots.

It's when the production is behind schedule that the pressure comes to drop scenes, not just reduce the number of shots.

In TV drama, the power is often with the producers, the director is the hired help, who may not be that involved in the editing, since they're out shooting another episode.