Should I work with this composer again?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

For someone who has no money and is struggling with the basics, why on earth is he concerned with hiring a composer? It's all ridiculous but to be expected.

[Ryan Elder]

I can hire a composer. If temp tracks are not used for the composer to get ideas from, then what do you call the tracks you give them to get ideas from, or is there a term for that?

[Brian Drysdale]

If there are no temp music tracks in the edit, you can only offer separate music recordings that can act as a guide for the type of music you're thinking of, These recordings can act as reference music for the composer.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, well so far I have just been giving the composer examples, without actually editing them into the scenes. I could edit them into the scenes exactly, but if I recut the music pieces, then parts of them become butchered for the composer to use as examples, but as long as the composer still gets the idea.

[Paul R Johnson]

No you can't! You cannot just plonk tracks into your movie and chop them up. It doesn't work. Ryan clearly you simply do not remotely understand music. Give your composer a steer. Tell them something needs to happen at X point, tell them you want a sunconsious theme for a character, or location, tell them a mood needs to change and then let the musician do musical stuff.

You're hopelessly confused about these jobs. you don't seem to realise the talented people will simply refuse to work with you if you keep this up. You are starting to sound like one of those directors who nobody wishes to be involved with.

Are people often unavailable when you ask them, and maybe this also explains why your actors keep becoming unavailable.

If you like your composers work, let him do it and stop trying to micromanage with no understanding of what they do.

[Brian Drysdale]

Often temp tracks are there to give the editor something to edit against or for the producers and other people who are viewing the film before the final sound track music is in place, rather than the composer.

A competent composer is quite capable of picking up the rhythm of a scene, they are also inventive in creating any leitmotifs required for characters etc. They may also be able to add some of the emotion that the poor acting doesn't emote

You don't need to chop up the music. I made an 8mm film when I was 16 and when I projected it I had an LP that I played with it. The music matched the action so well that it began to Mickey Mouse in places and it worked all the way through the film. That was rather fortunate, but if you select appropriate music it's surprising how well it will work.

Is this all for your feature film project or a short film?

[Ryan Elder]

It would be both for the feature and the short I am planning, if that is what you are asking.

The only reason I suggested editing the music, is because it was suggested on here before, that I edit the music to the scene. But wouldn't that result in the music being chopped up? I was just taken the suggestion on here before, but was asking about if it would come off as chopped up if I edited the music down.

But I don't need to give the composer temp tracks in the scene in then, and should I just show him examples of what I would like seperately then, if that's better?

[Brian Drysdale]

If you select the right piece of music and edit correctly, you shouldn't notice the changes. It's something that has been done for years on films, even those with a sound track composed for it. That's because things change.

There are techniques used during the days of editing on magnetic sound film. It was called tracking and was also done with library music, I expect it still goes on. except it's much easier doing it now on a DAW.. It's a skilled job.

You could do timing sheets, which have the timings of all the action and important dialogue down to a fraction of a second. This would assist the composer regarding key points.

Discuss with your composer what works for them,

[Ryan Elder]

Well the composer is allowing me to pick a lot of instruments so far, or at least asked which ones I would like so this has me thinking... Should I pick based on what instruments sound the best, or should I go with what I think will work within the universe of the movie, regardless, of how I feel about the sound? Or should it be both, and has to work within the universe of the movie, of course, but has to sound good to you as well...

For example in the movie Goldfinger, when Bond arrives on Goldfinger's Kentucky farm, they play a banjo. Now did the filmmakers like that instrument, or did they just say to themselves, well... Bond is in Kentucky now, so I guess that means we should use a banjo, even though we don't like it...

Or likewise, even though I thought about how I wanted the harmonica, I only wanted it to create a western feel. But I am not really a huge fan of it, and there is probably something that sounds better out there. So do I go by sound, or feeling I am trying to create, such as a Western feeling?

[Paul R Johnson]

You work with the strangest people. Camera ops who ask you what framing you want, sound ops who want you to pick their equipment, lighting people who seem to be clueless as to how to light a scene, and now you have a composer who asks a no musical person to pick their instrumentation. Is Saskatoon inhabited entirely by people who are clueless?

You are using your movie cliche list again? If it was set in Australia it would be a digeredoo, or a sitar in India, or a duduk in Africa, a harmonica in cowboy country, bodrhan is ireland, bagpipes in Scotland, pan flutes in South America and strange pentatonic in scales in Asia. Busy music for cities, wild sweeping strings for deserts. College course first week caricature studies.

You are desperate to be involved in every part of the movie, even when you have no talent in that area? The next topic will be about your graphic designer who is creating the titles. What fonts should you let him use?

Seriously though Ryan, if you don't KNOW, and have to ask on a forum, why are you not asking the person skilled in the role HIS advice. If I got told to use certain instrumentation because that person had no idea and asked on a forum, I'd walk. Seriously, these people cannot be real if they let you, clearly a novice, set the rules they as a professional have to follow. I work with many musicians better than me, and I always defer to their judgement when I know it's better. I just cannot imagine musicians working this way.

[Brian Drysdale]

Regarding Goldfinger, I suspect the banjo was John Barry's decision, rather than Guy Hamilton's. He has already used music to set up a location in the Miami sequence the film. He had used a similar technique to set up location in "From Russia With Love" and in "Zulu".

There are a number of instruments that could give a western feeling, so the choice isn't limited to the harmonica.

[Ryan Elder]

That's true, the choice is not limited to harmonica, but I guess my feelings are just telling me harmonica will sell it more than other instruments. However, if I am going by sounds I like, my brain tells me pan flute instead, because it sounds better. So do I make the decision based on what sounds I like, or what trying to create a genre feeling, regardless of sound, in this case western?

[Brian Drysdale]

Use what serves the story, not which instrument you like better.

Again, you're following rules as to what fits in a particular genre. This tends to be more fashions at a particular time. You could put someone singing a song in, since that was the fashion during the 1950s and 60s in westerns, .

This is one of the best songs with Tex Ritter, there are some awful ones in westerns.

Do not forsake me, oh, my darling - Tex Ritter original soundtrack High Noon - YouTube

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. How do you know what instrument would fit though? For example, I watched the movie The Killer (1989) recently, and noticed they have a pan flute on the soundtrack a lot. I didn't think a pan flute would fit an action crime thriller set in modern times, but they go for it.

So how do you know what fits, especially when other filmmakers go for something more unique and original like that, that I have not heard in that genre, in any other movies?

[Brian Drysdale]

If you can't tell when you hear it, you're in the wrong business. Learning that is part of the 10,000 hours and even then you could still be wrong.

It must fit emotionally with the character and the story. Here's the pan pipes with other instruments.

Ennio Morricone – Cockeye's Song (Once Upon A Time in America) - YouTube