Should I work with this composer again?

[Paul R Johnson]

I suspect, sadly, that your judgement is actually a bit broken. You really cannot, as others are always telling you, steal little bits you like from movies and drop them into others, expecting them to work. When you compose, you have little ideas that suddenly coalesce and sometimes the timbre of a sound is important. Having a musically illiterate person dictate instruments with no realm understanding is a recipe for a poor product.

Sorry - but you cannot just say swap a flute for an ethic instrument. Remember that our western appreciation of music assumes every note can be played, and some eastern instruments are incapable of playing every note in every key. You cannot have, for example, the music from typical Westerns played on a Duduk - they can't do it. Like wanting a Western scored in Eb to be played on a harmonica in F!

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay but I think it would be appropriate for the tone I am going for.

As for a copying and paste method, I thought I would give the composer temp tracks, and one of the temp tracks has a duduk in it, which is what I wanted in the temp track. But are temp tracks too much of a copy and paste method then?

But when you say I can't swap out an instrument for another, I'm not doing any swapping am I? If I tell the composer what I want from the beginning, then there is no swapping being done, is there?

[Brian Drysdale]

Temp tracks are an indication, something for the editor to cut to and give the composer a feel for where you're coming from in musical terms.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, so if I want some certain instruments, like in the temp tracks, than that is not the director's call at all?

Also as for putting in temp tracks for the composer, is using tracks from other movie scores as temp tracks not a good way to go?

[Brian Drysdale]

You can call for lots of things, but you do need to bear in mind the musical limitations of a particular instrument.

You can use anything as a temp track.

Again, discuss this with your composer.

[Paul R Johnson]

Te,p tracks indicate style. So in your head, you have a suspense scene and are thinking music like the exorcist, but your composer might be thinking slow strings with dissonance setting you on edge. Temp tracks will help here, but it depends on the deal you have with the composer. Are they given a free hand, or are they tightly controlled and subject to constant review. Both models are possible, but I wouldn't work on one of these versions.

[Ryan Elder]

I would say the type of relationship I have with the composer is more specific as to what I want in a lot of pieces of the music for specific moments, but then other times, like for the opening or closing credits for example, I will say go all out and do your thing, or for a scene with more action perhaps.

There are some beats I have in my head that I cannot find temp tracks for, so I will try to put in a temp track that is close, but ask him to change the instruments. For example, I want a harmonica for this particular one, but could not find a temp track to match what I was going for. However, I found a temp track that is similar to what I want but the instrument in the temp track is a xiao. So I would have to ask him this is the rythym and beat I am going for, but not sure how I feel about the xiao and want a harmonica instead, in that type of beat.

But is that a complicated way of working?

[Brian Drysdale]

You're expecting things to be too detailed.

When you play the film with the composer just mention that you feel that a harmonica might be good here.

The composer will find the rhythm from the pacing of the action on the screen and the editing. However, it doesn't need to Mickey Mouse, it could run counter by being lyrical while the action is fast moving blood and gore.

You can edit the temp tracks as required, if you're a good sound editor people mightn't even notice. Temp tracks are also about mood and emotion, not just about rhythm and beat.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. But why would I edit the temp track though? What do you mean by that?

[Brian Drysdale]

You can edit music just like you can edit dialogue etc. You just have to be a good sound editor with an ear for music.

It would allow you to set the timings of your temp track against the pictures.

[Paul R Johnson]

I thought that was pretty obvious Ryan - if you are using commercial tracks as guides they won't be remotely the right lengths or have pick up points in the right places unless you edit them. It does sound like you make the music so difficult for the composer working like this. I would hate to be micromanaged like this and probably walk.

The more rules you set, the more 'suggestions' you impose and the more hand behind the back you make it, the creativity drops lower and lower.

You set a style, you perhaps even do it negatively - so anything you like but NOT strings. This focuses the composer. Then you let them get on with it. They could think the harmonica is far too cliche set. Don;t get involved with musical detail. You don't have the background for it.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, are you saying I should tell a composer anything I like but not strings when you say that, or what do you mean by that?

As for a harmonica sounding cliche, I would be surprised if a composer thought that since you hardly hear it anymore in movies it seems.

[Brian Drysdale]

Composers can have an opinion, it's how it gets used can be a cliche. Just because it's not currently used doesn't mean that the way you're using it isn't cliched because of its past use in a particular type of western scene.

Here's a use of the harmonica that creates for emotional and dramatic effect because of these past.references.

John Barry (1933-2011) - The Midnight Cowboy Theme - YouTube

However, I suspect you're not working at that level.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. I wanted to use it as more of a suspense sound, but it's effective there as well.

[Brian Drysdale]

It will only work if it's appropriate within the scene otherwise it could be distracting.

This is the only time I've heard the harmonica being used for suspense;

Once Upon a Time in the West - Man with a Harmonica Theme - YouTube