Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh ok. How different does the framing and background being out of focus have to be when cutting from shot to shot? I see other movies where it will cut to the next shot having similar framing, so what do they differently?

[Paul R Johnson]

Not look like yours? Compare and contrast yours with theirs. You can either see it or not Ryan. It seems you can't so we can't make progress. If you cannot feel these things, how can we progress.

[Josh Bass]

Part of what makes that cut weird is that the cam is circling the actor very fast, then cuts to a much slower move. Would probably have been more poweful to stay on the wider shot and circle all the way around to that other framing, feathering the move to a stop, maybe physically “dollying” in. But yeah, the fast speed to to a much more relaxed one is at least a big part of it.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. Here's a scene in comparison where they cut from a shot to a closer up shot with similar framing. The first shot is at 0:48 into the video, and the closer up shot follows right after:

Bonnie and Clyde (1967). Final scene - YouTube

Both shots have similar framing and movement, so what is it that they do differently than mine though?

[Brian Drysdale]

Motivation drives every cut in that scene, it's not mechanical.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. Well I just want to understand everything to be better at filmmaking. Why wouldn't the motivation in mine be to cut to a close up, in that moment though? I felt it was motivated, but what made my motivation incorrect?

[Josh Bass]

Youre talking about the shot where hes falling and it goes from a wide to a tight? I would still argue its different from what you did, motivation issues aside... the movement in each shot appears to be the same speed, making it seem more like each shot flows into the other, plus your shot had rotation or revolving around a subject while Bonnie&Clyde has a simple left—->right directionality.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Your inspiration for editing a documentary short is the final scene of Bonnie and Clyde being gun down?
Lol the sheer comedy of it. Oh Lord! Just can’t make this stuff up. Wow

[Ryan Elder]

No I never had Bonnie and Clyde in mind, I was just trying to think of an example of when in a movie, it cuts from one shot to another, and both shots have similar framing and movement. I thought of that one.

[Brian Drysdale]

With the moving to static CU cut at around 5.40, the action of removing the glasses repeats itself, which can be effective, depending on the action, but does it work when someone is being reflective?

[Brian Drysdale]

Also, be aware of "eccentric" framing, it can become distracting and can imply you're worried that the audience may become bored. What works with a rock singer may not work with a monologue, especially if they're static.

Note that all this is nothing to do with film festivals having problems with a type of short film, since they accept all kinds of films.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. I feel that doubling on the removal of the glasses works when someone is being reflective, but that's just my opinion. I watched it again and it felt okay to me.

When you say eccentric framing, what counts as eccentric framing?

[Brian Drysdale]

Given that you did a fast move in and cut hard on the move to the CU, with an action repeat on the cut, all that sounds pretty unreflective, more that he's going to take extreme action.

There are a number of shots against the black background, the extreme low angle looking up,didn't seem to match the nature of the underlying message. The shot with very little head room with his hands on a black surface, if it was an altar you could've got away with it, but in this case the framing became distracting.

The wobbly cam shots in the cemetery, didn't really fit in if he was making a powerful reflective statement, more that he's suffering from psychological distress.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

Given that you did a fast move in and cut hard on the move to the CU, with an action repeat on the cut, all that sounds pretty unreflective, more that he's going to take extreme action.

There are a number of shots against the black background, the extreme low angle looking up,didn't seem to match the nature of the underlying message. The shot with very little head room with his hands on a black surface, if it was an altar you could've got away with it, but in this case the framing became distracting.

The wobbly cam shots in the cemetery, didn't really fit in if he was making a powerful reflective statement, more that he's suffering from psychological distress.

Okay thanks, this is all very good input. Is there any filmmaking books that goes deep into these things? The ones I read never mention anything, like you should only cut on a repeat of the cut, if a character is going to take action, or that you should only have a shot with little head room and black hands on a surface if it it's on an altar, or things like that.

Are there any filmmaking books that go into exact details like that more?

[Brian Drysdale]

You should read editing books, although many of these editing technique are given verbally, so you should listen and/or read interviews with editors. Repeating action on the cut by frames is used to heighten action, so can occur in fight scenes etc.

Filmmaking books can only go so far, you need to sense these things yourself.

Have a look at the complete opposite to your film. a talk made without auto cues and lasting 1/2 hour. These appeared on both the commercial ITV and the BBC in the UK, so had viewing figures. .

AJP Taylor railway timetables and mobilisation plans - YouTube