Is this too long?

[Richard Gooderick]

Hi
Here's a short film (almost five minutes) to give a taste of a bar in Edinburgh.
The target audience is people who are planning a visit to the city and who using the web to research their visit and get the most out of it.
Does it do the job for you?
Do you find it too long?
Feedback appreciated.

Dalriada on Vimeo

[Andy Wilkinson]

Hi Richard,

I enjoy your films immensely and love the atmosphere of this film when I watched it a day or so ago...and I love the bars in Edinburgh (where I spent a lot of my miss spent youth a long long time ago!) - but yes it was a bit too long.

I do a lot of analysis on my own videos (Google Analytics, YouTube stats etc.) and it seems that keeping hold of people for longer than about 2-3 minutes is a REAL challenge - maybe my videos are no good! ;-)

I'm sure (if you and others agree) it would be easy (as you have so much good stuff and a great soundtrack) to whittle it down to a stunning 2-3 minuter.

[Richard Gooderick]

Thanks for looking and commenting Andy. Much appreciated.

There have been 31 views and one comment.
Does everyone agree that it is is too long, or maybe people don't have broadband or are too busy to write?
I tried to let the music run a bit because I wanted the viewer to be able to enjoy it. There was one point where I thought about coming out earlier but left the cut where it was after experimenting.
Perhaps I was just too chilled out when I was editing it. Would love to have some more feedback.
There used to be an option to set up a vote but I can't find it. Would have made it easier for people to respond.

I know that the web is supposed to be for people with short attention spans but I'm not sure that always has to be the case.
The best statistic that I can come up with is for a 50 minute documentary that I posted on Vimeo in two equal sections.
I won't post the link here because it takes up too much space on the page (it's called Blue Water).

5,884 people have viewed part 1.
2,331 have viewed part 2.
Assuming that they are the same people (why would you watch part 2 and not part 1?) that seems quite a high percentage.

BTW Andy, I'm not trying to say that your films don't hold attention! This film was for people who like sailing and a smidgeon of philosophy and so it's a very targeted audience. I don't think a 50 minute corporate film would retain so many viewers.

[Les Wilson]

It's long. I was waiting for a story. Strikes me as 95% a film of a band in a Pub and the rest a tourism video. Photography is nice. Lighting is warm...maybe too warm...but subjective. Clear audio.

I am not sure just the video and stills make much of a case for going there. A voice over and tightening up of things might help. Of course maybe the way it is is what you wanted and not an in-your-face commercial. But from what is there, I don't know if I should pack my guitar because I can join in or practice my vocals so I can sing with the band. Is that the house band or might there be others booked throughout the year. On the other hand it does say it's not far from Edinborough, snowy, cold and kids are welcome. What's it like in summer? I assume the shots of the whiskey also made a statement about the bar.

Now I'll look at the other videos you have just because I'm part Irish, have never been there and you put out really nice footage. my 2 cents

[Les Wilson]

OK. Rain. An artistic piece. Nice.

Christmas Day. Beautiful footage. Lots of the same thing. Deer, people, more deer, landscape with deer, sidewalk, deer, people, deer on sidewalk, cathedral, people with deer....you get the idea.

[Richard Gooderick]

Thanks for looking Les. Oh deer ;-) It was just a walk with friends and I didn't make it for wider consumption. Should probably have taken it down. I made it for a friend's family back in China. As part of a longer film. To show them a bit of London. She asked for deer; as many as possible :-)

[Les Wilson]

Where is part 2?

BTW....My sister was an English Lit major but now works for Crate and Barrel and loved the Shakesperience piece you did for IKEA.

[Richard Gooderick]

Don't ask! The whole thing ran to about an hour. A present from London, for Chinese New Year.
I'm so glad your sister liked Shakesperience. It was quick and dirty and could easily not have worked out. I wish I could think of a way to get it more widely seen. Maybe as a teaching aid!

BTW for anyone else reading. Please don't be put off from commenting on Dalriada. I'm very thick skinned and would really value feedback. 100 views so far and very few comments. Someone favourited it on Vimeo so it worked for him/her, but it's too long for other people.

[Les Wilson]

For the record, I like the piece. I'm not against "long" pieces such as yours that moves along enough.

<rant>The problem is the effect that "the media" has had on genY, GenX and genWHATEVER forcing everything into elevator speeches and nearly content free packages for an ADD society.</rant>

[Richard Gooderick]

Many thanks Les.
Would anyone else care to comment?

[Mark Boyer]

Good Video, shooting in a dark pub full of patrons is very difficult (I didn't like the 2 heads in the shot of the singers).

Some of the drinkers look very drunk.

I would have shot allot tighter on the musicians and edit in different shots of the hands playing the instiments.

Here in the states you never see children in a bar (unless it is a restaurant).

In the middle of your video your music changes to a blues singer.

Keep your edits tight and your shots appealing to the traveler who is looking for a warm authentic place to have a drink and a bite.

Also if you have a cute bar maid with her accent saying hello would be nice.

This is a link to another video for a Irish Pub here in the states: YouTube - Slainte Irish Pub - HD Video Commercial by HamiltonSeen

[Lorinda Norton]

Hi Richard,

Very nice images! I've always wanted to visit Edinburgh so this was interesting to me. Here are a few remarks since you are asking:

I loved the opening. Always good to show the surrounding area, so even a bit more of that with a dolly in at the door (inviting me in) would have been fun.

The people make the experience, so you certainly were on the right track there, plus showing the offerings, etc. Even though I don't drink single malt scotch it was fun looking at all the brands.

Yes, the video dwells on the music too long for my taste, but I sure enjoyed it more than pieces that use canned music in the background while showing a live band. With yours people know what they'll be hearing. I'd have been happy if the song from 1:30-2:00 was not there, and if there was different footage from 2:00-2:10. I also turned down the volume a bit when the popular Blues singer was belting out her tune, but that's just me.

You know what I hoped for? Very short clips of patrons talking, or perhaps a few words from the bartender (I never saw one) or the owner. Now *that* would have really made the video for this hopeful traveler!

All in all, though, it was lots of fun. Thanks so much for giving us a look at it!

[Richard Gooderick]

Thank you Mark and Lorinda. Some really interesting and helpful comments that I will take on board. Rather than reply properly now and interrupt the flow of the thread I will leave it for a while in case there are any more contributions.

[Richard Gooderick]

I've finally got round to finishing this off. It's uploading as I write this..
Thank you so much for your comments.
I have shortened it quite a bit.
It's 400 miles from me so shooting extra material was not possible.
I've used more stills, some with people in, and hope this broadens the scope of the film.
The intention is to give a flavour of the pub/bar.
Lorinda - the owners were too camera shy. I've included a couple of stills. Maybe I will film them later in the year. I've got rid of some of the music and footage that you refer to.
Mark - the problem with framing was that I was using a 50mm prime and this as as close as I could get. I was slowly roasting in front of the fireplace. The only space from which I could film.
Children are allowed up until 8pm. This was an afternoon session. It's a family-friendly pub. But people in the UK always get confused as to when and when you can't take children into a pub. Some don't allow children at all.
They play all kinds of music in the pub. This is what they played in this particular session.
I've included a few more images showing food etc.
The film is warm. Mainly because I started shooting when there was daylight coming in through the window and then it got completely dark. I could have white balanced again but that might have caused more problems than solutions.
I hope that the film is better for the changes.
Thank you so much everybody who took the time and trouble to comment.

[Lorinda Norton]

Originally Posted by Richard Gooderick

...I was slowly roasting in front of the fireplace. The only space from which I could film.

I smiled at this but it was probably brutal. :)

I'm excited to see the finished version, Richard. Hope you'll post it here!