Moto Video

Daniel Patton · April 20th, 2005, 01:39 AM

Hey everyone! I spent last weekend at the races again and was allowed to roam the track freely to shoot (so long as I did not get run over, HA!). Different track / location but just as much fun as the last one! These are not professional riders, but they sure took it serious regardless. The age was maybe 7 to 40+.

Notes:

- I did nothing in post in regards to image, or color adjustments, I wanted to keep the look as clean to the XL1S/XL2 as I could. What you see is what I got. Only cuts, fades and blur used.

- I used another Linkin Park track for the audio again, but this time I edited the video from the get go to match the audio all the way through. It goes total MANIC at the end, that was fun.

-Letterbox like that last one with a fair amount of "Pan & Scan" to keep the action front and center.

Media Player 360x240 WMV
http://www.danielpatton.com/dv/I-40_...ss_360x240.wmv

I feel this one went much better since it follows the audio track better.

Previous feedback helped make this one better than the last, feedback is again appreciated.

Rob Lohman · April 26th, 2005, 07:55 AM

I thought the end flag was a nice touch! Overal it felt good, but a tad long
perhaps (but of course, that depends on your target audience). I also thought
it was perhaps cropped (letterboxed) a bit too tight.

I assume you know, but it is illegal to use this kind of music without paying for it!

Daniel Patton · April 27th, 2005, 03:03 PM

Thanks for the feedback Rob! It is a bit long, but it was edited for fun to fit the audio track. You are correct regarding the letterboxing, it was intended to be anamorphic wide, my calculation was way off for the matting.

Regarding audio...

from my other first moto post:
"The audio (temporary) was a good fit... This is just stock footage for us, the video was edited for fun and is not for profit… disclaimer is due to audio."

We will use the footage but not the audio with the actual project. No worries.

Dan Euritt · April 30th, 2005, 10:13 PM

i watched it without any audio, and i found that the cuts were too jarring for me, but then i'm an old guy :-) even if i do shoot drag racing all the time.

depending on what your purpose to it is, the viewer will want that extra split second to see the resolution to the brief clip... the other issue of course is how to avoid jump cuts.

you have some killer shots there, but they suffer greatly because it's not 4:3, and you are pretty zoomed in... the vertical jumps are cut way off, so there is often no perspective of where the ground or sky are relevant to each other... even when the bikes are not jumping, the wheels often have the bottom half cut off of 'em.

i'm gonna go watch dust to glory tomorrow, i wonder how they handled that 16:9 stuff? i've been sweating how to do it for the stuff i shoot.

anyway, keep up the good work! there was some really clean footage in there... do you use the push to focus button on the camera?

Nicholas Foster · May 4th, 2005, 08:25 PM

Great look. Great camera work. Great editing. Terrible song choice though. Linkin Park is way too overused and they're not that great either. But that's just my opinion and you said its just temporary anyways. I for one, liked the cropping. Ive been shooting alot of races and all around crazy dirtbike videos myself, and I can tell you that riders I know love to watch videos just like that. They eat it up. I wouldn't change a thing about it...except the song that is.

I also wanted to ask you how you achieved that look in camera? I shoot with an XL1s too and have been trying to get a very similar look, but haven't quite got it yet. Coyld you list all the settings you use?

Thanks,
Nick

Daniel Patton · May 4th, 2005, 09:02 PM

In reply to Dan Euritt,

Hmmmm.... must be a old guy thing. ;) I only use soft fades when the music or mood calls for it, in the case of Linkin Park it's pretty much a hard cut. And trust me, not much to see but what I show, focus too long on one rider and it gets a bit boring.

As for the wide screen letterboxing, I cover that in the earlier post, it's way off even for anamorphic wide. I understand what you mean about needing to see more of the shot to know how far off the ground they are, etc., it's too tight at that wide of a letterbox. I ran another one at 4x3 just so you can see more of what's going on, but I don't care for it as much because I am now unable to Pan & Scan the footage. So the camera motion is far more obvious than before, of well. Her it is in case you would like to see a full screen version.

http://www.danielpatton.com/dv/I-40_...0x240_FULL.wmv

I am also looking forward to Dust to Glory, I love both Moto and Car racing of all types. And no, I did not use the push to focus, the camera did a good job IMHO with the auto focus setting. With the pace that a moto runs and my moving all over the track as fast as I did, you have little time to set up and use that feature.

I looked at some of the clips on your site, fun stuff! One thing I noticed though, you need a longer telephoto lens, the cars quicky got away from you going down the track. What are you shotting with, it didn't look like footage from a Canon XL1/XL2, or was it?

Daniel Patton · May 4th, 2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholas Foster

Great look. Great camera work. Great editing. Terrible song choice though. Linkin Park is way too overused and they're not that great either. But that's just my opinion and you said its just temporary anyways. I for one, liked the cropping. Ive been shooting alot of races and all around crazy dirtbike videos myself, and I can tell you that riders I know love to watch videos just like that. They eat it up. I wouldn't change a thing about it...except the song that is.

I also wanted to ask you how you achieved that look in camera? I shoot with an XL1s too and have been trying to get a very similar look, but haven't quite got it yet. Coyld you list all the settings you use?

Thanks,
Nick

It's an opinion thing I guess, I'm getting close to 40 and I still love Linkin Park, it's a good fit in my opinion. As for the wide screen letterboxing, I agree with you, it's a look that I like over 4x3. I like anamorphic wide over 16x9, but that letterbox I used was tighter even than anamorphic, it was overkill. That was done in post, not in the camera. It's a matting overlay in AfterEffects, then the I was able to Pan & Scan the footage behind that black matting to keep the subject at center even when then camera shifted up and down. Know what I mean?

As for the camera settings, I just set it to manual, used a high Shutter speed (250-500), and kept an eye on my zebra pattern tweaking the iris as much as I could. The higher shutter speed I feel was better in that I was able to catch every dirt particle, as well as less image blurring overall. The shots that looked the best are the ones that I kept tight, up and close on the riders, also avoiding the end of the telephoto on my 20X. In truth, the rest was thanks to the quality of the XL1S with that 20X lens. I have been VERY happy with the results from this camera; it actually exceeds my initial expectations.

Is that what you meant? Or are you looking for something else?

Nicholas Foster · May 4th, 2005, 09:56 PM

Yeah. Thanks for that. I guess I should be shooting mine at a higher shutter speed as well. Did you change any of the color settings?

Daniel Patton · May 4th, 2005, 10:12 PM

Without a doubt crank up that shutter speed, the reduction in blurring looked so much better for me. It's a much cleaner look. Also -3 on the gain when you can.

And no, the color settings are all factory settings. The only thing I failed to mention, and I'm sure it has helped a lot, I did use a polarization filter. As I have learned from this forum, a must have item. It's also a life saver in shooting moto as those roostings you get can toast a good lens. Well worth the money for that piece of mind alone.

Share some of your stuff (even just with me if not with everyone here), I'll give you a little room on my server if needed.

Nicholas Foster · May 5th, 2005, 09:15 AM

I'll be filming a 50 race next week. Hopfefully I'll come back with some pretty good looking footage and maybe funny too. Nothing like seeing grown men racing around on little 50cc dirtbikes. I'll post that as soon as possible.

Daniel Patton · May 5th, 2005, 08:09 PM

SWEET!

Ever see "Attack of the fiddies" DVD? It's all fifties, fun stuff.
http://www.50ccracing.com/review%20-...%20fiddies.asp

Some of the moto footage I have been collecting will be used as background footage for marketing moto products. One of the companies is also doing stuff for fifties now, so I may be in need of some “fiddies” footage real soon. You should let me look through what you capture, if it's something I can use I might be willing to buy some of the footage from you. I don't need a lot, just a few minutes worth. And mostly I need shots similar to the I-40 moto I posted in this thread. Up close and tight, and keep them in frame and steady as much as you can. That's asking a lot when you are talking moto as they rarely ever move at a steady pace.

Let me know if you are interested. I can't guarantee they will want a fifties segment but since they are doing more product for them now it's a good bet that they might.

Dan Euritt · May 7th, 2005, 01:09 PM

thanks for posting that other clip... overall, i'll take the 4:3 version any day, it shows the jumps much better... the only place there was an issue was where the footage was framed with too much headroom, but that didn't happen very often... i think the difference is in how it's shot to begin with, cropping that kind of thing in post can be problematic.

parts of a video should definitely include cutaways of those overly-tight shots, i really like that artsy-fartsy look myself at certain times, but it gets old real quick if it's used too much... there just isn't any story in that shot... it would have worked well for dust to glory, because that film was mostly about the personalities, rather than the actual race itself.

if your goal is to shoot for racers, like i do, then you'll have to be able to make some sense of who's leading the pack, who qualified first, etc... super-tight shots won't help that at all... anyway, big thumbs-up for the creative side of it!

everything i shoot is with canon xl1/xl1s, but i typically can't use the extender, because it doesn't go wide enuf when the cars go by trackside... that shot needs nearly a 180 degree view, over 1/4 mile long... it's a pia, lol... i'd love to try the xl2 20x on my xl1s, for sure.

Daniel Patton · May 7th, 2005, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

EDITED ...if your goal is to shoot for racers, like i do, then you'll have to be able to make some sense of who's leading the pack, who qualified first, etc... super-tight shots won't help that at all... anyway, big thumbs-up for the creative side of it!

Thanks, much appreciated. I agree, if that was the point of the edit then I would have failed for sure. But everything I have been collecting is intended for product marketing segments, so the only point is to get caught up in the overall action, no time for a story.

And I'm glad you liked the 4x3, at least you prefer it anyway. I still like the look of 16x9 over 4x3 but then again I'm a movie nut too. :)

So for your needs, what I hear you saying is… you could use a custom developed lens that gives you a wide angle for track side and then shifts to a good long telephoto. ;) Now that would be nice.

As for the 20X lens, if you ever get a chance you should give it a try, mines been very good for my needs overall.

LeEarl Rugland · May 22nd, 2005, 11:13 PM

I loved the clip!! I am a big racer and loved the length of the clip. I think it could have been longer :-) I am going to start filming my daughter when she races. She started last year racing snomobiles at the age of 4. This year we will travel to all the races and will start to race motocross alittle this year.

Thanks for the clip and I would love to see more!!!!

LeEarl

Ken Beals · May 29th, 2005, 02:05 AM

Brings back a great memory as a young teen going to my first dirtbike motocross race.

Flinging dirt clumps, whining 2 stroke engines and plenty of mojo !

Your camera was loyal and focused on the riders, their mounts and the elements of the track but it personally would have been more satisfying to see some reactionary shots of the fans or possibly some pre-race stuff like riders off loading their bikes from the trailer or Tacoma truck bed and even a close up of someone making a minor adjustment on the engine, taping the entry number placard to their bike, etc.

I agree with an earlier post, really like the checkered flag finishing up your final frames.

Looked like a fun day at the races.

~kb

April 20th, 2005, 01:39 AM	#1
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	Moto Video - Round 2 Hey everyone! I spent last weekend at the races again and was allowed to roam the track freely to shoot (so long as I did not get run over, HA!). Different track / location but just as much fun as the last one! These are not professional riders, but they sure took it serious regardless. The age was maybe 7 to 40+. Notes: - I did nothing in post in regards to image, or color adjustments, I wanted to keep the look as clean to the XL1S/XL2 as I could. What you see is what I got. Only cuts, fades and blur used. - I used another Linkin Park track for the audio again, but this time I edited the video from the get go to match the audio all the way through. It goes total MANIC at the end, that was fun. -Letterbox like that last one with a fair amount of "Pan & Scan" to keep the action front and center. Media Player 360x240 WMV http://www.danielpatton.com/dv/I-40_...ss_360x240.wmv I feel this one went much better since it follows the audio track better. Previous feedback helped make this one better than the last, feedback is again appreciated. __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

April 26th, 2005, 07:55 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I thought the end flag was a nice touch! Overal it felt good, but a tad long perhaps (but of course, that depends on your target audience). I also thought it was perhaps cropped (letterboxed) a bit too tight. I assume you know, but it is illegal to use this kind of music without paying for it! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 27th, 2005, 03:03 PM	#3
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	Thanks for the feedback Rob! It is a bit long, but it was edited for fun to fit the audio track. You are correct regarding the letterboxing, it was intended to be anamorphic wide, my calculation was way off for the matting. Regarding audio... from my other first moto post: "The audio (temporary) was a good fit... This is just stock footage for us, the video was edited for fun and is not for profit… disclaimer is due to audio." We will use the footage but not the audio with the actual project. No worries. __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

May 4th, 2005, 09:02 PM	#6
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	In reply to Dan Euritt, Hmmmm.... must be a old guy thing. ;) I only use soft fades when the music or mood calls for it, in the case of Linkin Park it's pretty much a hard cut. And trust me, not much to see but what I show, focus too long on one rider and it gets a bit boring. As for the wide screen letterboxing, I cover that in the earlier post, it's way off even for anamorphic wide. I understand what you mean about needing to see more of the shot to know how far off the ground they are, etc., it's too tight at that wide of a letterbox. I ran another one at 4x3 just so you can see more of what's going on, but I don't care for it as much because I am now unable to Pan & Scan the footage. So the camera motion is far more obvious than before, of well. Her it is in case you would like to see a full screen version. http://www.danielpatton.com/dv/I-40_...0x240_FULL.wmv I am also looking forward to Dust to Glory, I love both Moto and Car racing of all types. And no, I did not use the push to focus, the camera did a good job IMHO with the auto focus setting. With the pace that a moto runs and my moving all over the track as fast as I did, you have little time to set up and use that feature. I looked at some of the clips on your site, fun stuff! One thing I noticed though, you need a longer telephoto lens, the cars quicky got away from you going down the track. What are you shotting with, it didn't look like footage from a Canon XL1/XL2, or was it? __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

May 4th, 2005, 10:12 PM	#9
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	Without a doubt crank up that shutter speed, the reduction in blurring looked so much better for me. It's a much cleaner look. Also -3 on the gain when you can. And no, the color settings are all factory settings. The only thing I failed to mention, and I'm sure it has helped a lot, I did use a polarization filter. As I have learned from this forum, a must have item. It's also a life saver in shooting moto as those roostings you get can toast a good lens. Well worth the money for that piece of mind alone. Share some of your stuff (even just with me if not with everyone here), I'll give you a little room on my server if needed. __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

April 30th, 2005, 10:13 PM	#4
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	i watched it without any audio, and i found that the cuts were too jarring for me, but then i'm an old guy :-) even if i do shoot drag racing all the time. depending on what your purpose to it is, the viewer will want that extra split second to see the resolution to the brief clip... the other issue of course is how to avoid jump cuts. you have some killer shots there, but they suffer greatly because it's not 4:3, and you are pretty zoomed in... the vertical jumps are cut way off, so there is often no perspective of where the ground or sky are relevant to each other... even when the bikes are not jumping, the wheels often have the bottom half cut off of 'em. i'm gonna go watch dust to glory tomorrow, i wonder how they handled that 16:9 stuff? i've been sweating how to do it for the stuff i shoot. anyway, keep up the good work! there was some really clean footage in there... do you use the push to focus button on the camera?

May 4th, 2005, 08:25 PM	#5
Nicholas Foster Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 47	Great look. Great camera work. Great editing. Terrible song choice though. Linkin Park is way too overused and they're not that great either. But that's just my opinion and you said its just temporary anyways. I for one, liked the cropping. Ive been shooting alot of races and all around crazy dirtbike videos myself, and I can tell you that riders I know love to watch videos just like that. They eat it up. I wouldn't change a thing about it...except the song that is. I also wanted to ask you how you achieved that look in camera? I shoot with an XL1s too and have been trying to get a very similar look, but haven't quite got it yet. Coyld you list all the settings you use? Thanks, Nick

May 4th, 2005, 09:56 PM	#8
Nicholas Foster Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 47	Yeah. Thanks for that. I guess I should be shooting mine at a higher shutter speed as well. Did you change any of the color settings?

May 5th, 2005, 09:15 AM	#10
Nicholas Foster Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 47	I'll be filming a 50 race next week. Hopfefully I'll come back with some pretty good looking footage and maybe funny too. Nothing like seeing grown men racing around on little 50cc dirtbikes. I'll post that as soon as possible.

May 5th, 2005, 08:09 PM	#11
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	SWEET! Ever see "Attack of the fiddies" DVD? It's all fifties, fun stuff. http://www.50ccracing.com/review%20-...%20fiddies.asp Some of the moto footage I have been collecting will be used as background footage for marketing moto products. One of the companies is also doing stuff for fifties now, so I may be in need of some “fiddies” footage real soon. You should let me look through what you capture, if it's something I can use I might be willing to buy some of the footage from you. I don't need a lot, just a few minutes worth. And mostly I need shots similar to the I-40 moto I posted in this thread. Up close and tight, and keep them in frame and steady as much as you can. That's asking a lot when you are talking moto as they rarely ever move at a steady pace. Let me know if you are interested. I can't guarantee they will want a fifties segment but since they are doing more product for them now it's a good bet that they might. __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

May 7th, 2005, 01:09 PM	#12
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	thanks for posting that other clip... overall, i'll take the 4:3 version any day, it shows the jumps much better... the only place there was an issue was where the footage was framed with too much headroom, but that didn't happen very often... i think the difference is in how it's shot to begin with, cropping that kind of thing in post can be problematic. parts of a video should definitely include cutaways of those overly-tight shots, i really like that artsy-fartsy look myself at certain times, but it gets old real quick if it's used too much... there just isn't any story in that shot... it would have worked well for dust to glory, because that film was mostly about the personalities, rather than the actual race itself. if your goal is to shoot for racers, like i do, then you'll have to be able to make some sense of who's leading the pack, who qualified first, etc... super-tight shots won't help that at all... anyway, big thumbs-up for the creative side of it! everything i shoot is with canon xl1/xl1s, but i typically can't use the extender, because it doesn't go wide enuf when the cars go by trackside... that shot needs nearly a 180 degree view, over 1/4 mile long... it's a pia, lol... i'd love to try the xl2 20x on my xl1s, for sure.

May 22nd, 2005, 11:13 PM	#14
LeEarl Rugland New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Roseau, MN Posts: 23	I loved the clip!! I am a big racer and loved the length of the clip. I think it could have been longer :-) I am going to start filming my daughter when she races. She started last year racing snomobiles at the age of 4. This year we will travel to all the races and will start to race motocross alittle this year. Thanks for the clip and I would love to see more!!!! LeEarl

May 29th, 2005, 02:05 AM	#15
Ken Beals Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tempe, Az Posts: 172	Brings back a great memory as a young teen going to my first dirtbike motocross race. Flinging dirt clumps, whining 2 stroke engines and plenty of mojo ! Your camera was loyal and focused on the riders, their mounts and the elements of the track but it personally would have been more satisfying to see some reactionary shots of the fans or possibly some pre-race stuff like riders off loading their bikes from the trailer or Tacoma truck bed and even a close up of someone making a minor adjustment on the engine, taping the entry number placard to their bike, etc. I agree with an earlier post, really like the checkered flag finishing up your final frames. Looked like a fun day at the races. ~kb __________________ Mediocrity is a disease...