Show Your Work 2002

Aaron Koolen · September 10th, 2002, 06:56 PM

Hi Nori. Nice footage. Just to clarify, did you shoot all that with the old XL1 or the new XL1s?

Michael Wisniewski · September 10th, 2002, 08:28 PM

You should call up the station first and find out what they will accept.

Also, talk to the company that's currently doing the broadcast and find out how they do it.

Jeff Donald · September 10th, 2002, 09:01 PM

Hi Doug,

Super Newbie questions welcome. Don't worry about the questions, the knowldge is here, in this community. The people here will help as often and as much as required. So, first step call the station and find out their requirements for broadcast. Then talk to some people in your church. someone must know a little of whats going on. Then talk to the production company. Ask if you can observe if you stay out of the way. Then, when you have questions, search the archives here and if you can't find the answer post your questions. The answers will come.

Jeff

Rob Lohman · September 11th, 2002, 06:47 AM

These "rules" are actually very good, especially for internet
only productions. Whether or not you follow the original Dogma
ideas or not, these are very good guidelines.

Martin Munthe · September 11th, 2002, 07:17 AM

QuickTime 6 will be able to stream full lenght features in full screen on ADSL connections.

Rules don't apply well to digital technology. I would suggest the eleventh rule "Learn your tools and keep updated - it takes skills to be on the edge".

640x480 does not calculate well from 720x480 NTSC. Respect the codec algorithms. If it's in NTSC origin run it at 15fps or 29,97fps. PAL should run in 12,5fps or 25fps. Otherwise the codec get's confused. All to often I see people running films at 18fps "to save space" resulting in poor image quality.

Progressive DV will put web streaming in a completely new light. In stead calculating 60i we would calculate 30i.

September 11th, 2002, 07:40 AM

Thanks for your help and advice.

Jay Gladwell · September 11th, 2002, 08:44 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Martin_M : QuickTime 6 will be able to stream full lenght features in full screen on ADSL connections.

"Learn your tools and keep updated - it takes skills to be on the edge".

Perhaps more than anything, "to be on the edge" takes money!

Nori Wentworth · September 11th, 2002, 11:26 AM

The good old Xl1 is what I use, but I use the 14X manual lens, which in my opinion is a thousand times better than the Xl1s basic package. I've looked at upgrading to the XL1s, but I'm still not convinced it would be worth my while. All the footage I've seen from the XL1s looks no better than my Xl1.

Aaron Koolen · September 11th, 2002, 01:41 PM

Thanks for that. Do you think the lens is better image quality , or just useability? (zoom, focus etc)

Adam Lawrence · September 11th, 2002, 03:18 PM

saw one on the news filming folks in NY during the WTC attacks,
and saw another filming in some night club on E!.

I was in Mexico not too long ago and noticed a man filming people with
an XL1S. I asked what the footage was for, and he said it was for "girls gone wild" ....Hmmm, you would think any camera would be suitable for that quality
of video.

CarterTG · September 11th, 2002, 08:38 PM

Canons have been no stranger to the Howard Stern show... back when the show was aired on CBS, you could easily spot multi-camera scenes where they'd be running around the halls with Canon L2/L1 Hi8s.. then subsequently XL1 cameras.

I believe their radio-room shots were with larger broadcast cameras though.

Nori Wentworth · September 11th, 2002, 09:16 PM

The lens is way better image quality, the only thing I don't like about the 14X is the zoom control, which I believe the 16x manual lens has added. Other than that, I would like to have a follow focus system to pull focus from the side. It's hard to compare all the different lenses living in a small town that doesn't even sell XL1's.
-Nori

Martin Munthe · September 12th, 2002, 07:24 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Good Dog : Perhaps more than anything, "to be on the edge" takes money! -->>>

I don't think so. To be on the edge demands disrespect of rules. In later years digital video evolution has been pushed forward by people using unexpected combinations of off-the-shelf software and hardware to reduce costs traditionally connected to high end video on computers. Take a look at companys like The Orphanage. Or people like Scott Billups. It's a hacker type of mentality. Without them we'd still be on super expensive Avids and SGI's. Whitout the disrespectful hippie attitude like Apple's (Jobs) we'd have no FireWire.

QuickTime 6 Pro is not very expensive. What? $25? Mpeg4 is THE codec of the future for video content on the web (MicroSoft have still to realize that). Heck, people have been downloadfing DivX (sort of Mpeg4 beta) films like crazy. Why not make that technology easily available for everyone. I'm sure Apple will make it user friendly.

Rob Lohman · September 12th, 2002, 08:05 AM

Any place I can download that instead of stream? That doesn't
work here at my company and I don't have a broadband connection
at home. Thank you.

Aaron Koolen · September 12th, 2002, 02:05 PM

Dunno what platform you're on, but if I use Download Accelerator it seems to grab streaming files fine.

Cheers
Aaron

September 11th, 2002, 06:47 AM	#259
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	These "rules" are actually very good, especially for internet only productions. Whether or not you follow the original Dogma ideas or not, these are very good guidelines. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 11th, 2002, 07:17 AM	#260
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	QuickTime 6 will be able to stream full lenght features in full screen on ADSL connections. Rules don't apply well to digital technology. I would suggest the eleventh rule "Learn your tools and keep updated - it takes skills to be on the edge". 640x480 does not calculate well from 720x480 NTSC. Respect the codec algorithms. If it's in NTSC origin run it at 15fps or 29,97fps. PAL should run in 12,5fps or 25fps. Otherwise the codec get's confused. All to often I see people running films at 18fps "to save space" resulting in poor image quality. Progressive DV will put web streaming in a completely new light. In stead calculating 60i we would calculate 30i. __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

September 11th, 2002, 07:40 AM	#261
dougakins Posts: n/a	Thanks! Thanks for your help and advice.

September 11th, 2002, 03:18 PM	#265
Adam Lawrence _redone_ Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 224	saw one on the news filming folks in NY during the WTC attacks, and saw another filming in some night club on E!. I was in Mexico not too long ago and noticed a man filming people with an XL1S. I asked what the footage was for, and he said it was for "girls gone wild" ....Hmmm, you would think any camera would be suitable for that quality of video. __________________ Adam Lawrence eatdrink Media Las Vegas NV www.eatdrinkmedia.com

September 12th, 2002, 07:24 AM	#268
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	<<<-- Originally posted by Good Dog : Perhaps more than anything, "to be on the edge" takes money! -->>> I don't think so. To be on the edge demands disrespect of rules. In later years digital video evolution has been pushed forward by people using unexpected combinations of off-the-shelf software and hardware to reduce costs traditionally connected to high end video on computers. Take a look at companys like The Orphanage. Or people like Scott Billups. It's a hacker type of mentality. Without them we'd still be on super expensive Avids and SGI's. Whitout the disrespectful hippie attitude like Apple's (Jobs) we'd have no FireWire. QuickTime 6 Pro is not very expensive. What? $25? Mpeg4 is THE codec of the future for video content on the web (MicroSoft have still to realize that). Heck, people have been downloadfing DivX (sort of Mpeg4 beta) films like crazy. Why not make that technology easily available for everyone. I'm sure Apple will make it user friendly. __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

September 10th, 2002, 06:56 PM	#256
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Hi Nori. Nice footage. Just to clarify, did you shoot all that with the old XL1 or the new XL1s?

September 10th, 2002, 08:28 PM	#257
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	You should call up the station first and find out what they will accept. Also, talk to the company that's currently doing the broadcast and find out how they do it.

September 10th, 2002, 09:01 PM	#258
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Hi Doug, Super Newbie questions welcome. Don't worry about the questions, the knowldge is here, in this community. The people here will help as often and as much as required. So, first step call the station and find out their requirements for broadcast. Then talk to some people in your church. someone must know a little of whats going on. Then talk to the production company. Ask if you can observe if you stay out of the way. Then, when you have questions, search the archives here and if you can't find the answer post your questions. The answers will come. Jeff

September 11th, 2002, 08:44 AM	#262
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	<<<-- Originally posted by Martin_M : QuickTime 6 will be able to stream full lenght features in full screen on ADSL connections. "Learn your tools and keep updated - it takes skills to be on the edge". Perhaps more than anything, "to be on the edge" takes money!

September 11th, 2002, 11:26 AM	#263
Nori Wentworth Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada Posts: 217	The good old Xl1 is what I use, but I use the 14X manual lens, which in my opinion is a thousand times better than the Xl1s basic package. I've looked at upgrading to the XL1s, but I'm still not convinced it would be worth my while. All the footage I've seen from the XL1s looks no better than my Xl1.

September 11th, 2002, 01:41 PM	#264
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Thanks for that. Do you think the lens is better image quality , or just useability? (zoom, focus etc)

September 11th, 2002, 08:38 PM	#266
CarterTG Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 42	Canons have been no stranger to the Howard Stern show... back when the show was aired on CBS, you could easily spot multi-camera scenes where they'd be running around the halls with Canon L2/L1 Hi8s.. then subsequently XL1 cameras. I believe their radio-room shots were with larger broadcast cameras though.

September 11th, 2002, 09:16 PM	#267
Nori Wentworth Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada Posts: 217	The lens is way better image quality, the only thing I don't like about the 14X is the zoom control, which I believe the 16x manual lens has added. Other than that, I would like to have a follow focus system to pull focus from the side. It's hard to compare all the different lenses living in a small town that doesn't even sell XL1's. -Nori

September 12th, 2002, 08:05 AM	#269
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Any place I can download that instead of stream? That doesn't work here at my company and I don't have a broadband connection at home. Thank you. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 12th, 2002, 02:05 PM	#270
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Dunno what platform you're on, but if I use Download Accelerator it seems to grab streaming files fine. Cheers Aaron