Choice at DVinfo.net

Colin Minihan · February 27th, 2004, 06:30 PM

If anybody wants to check out the 64 minute film i made last year called CHOICE, its online now.

Recieved Best Cinematography at the Mini DV festival in hollywood earlier this year, and was an official selection in the victoria independent film fest. early feb04
http://www.smiley-films.com/choice.html

the film took a lot out of me.. it was made during my grade 12 year of highschool....let me know what you think.

Marty Martin · February 27th, 2004, 06:46 PM

The link doesn't work :( Awesome job for making such a huge effort in your 12th grade year. You're ahead of the pack in a big way man. Of course... I haven't seen the film yet either ;)

Jeff Donald · February 27th, 2004, 06:50 PM

Maybe he was having server problems, it's downloading as I write this.

Marty Martin · February 27th, 2004, 07:03 PM

I think it's an issue with macs and how they read the website. It's happened to me before. When I click on the words "click this", nothing happens.

Doh! i wanted to check it out.

Colin Minihan · February 27th, 2004, 07:08 PM

yeah dude i dont know... i use macs all the time and have tested every link.. they all work.. try control clicking it???

Jeff Donald · February 27th, 2004, 08:00 PM

It worked for me using Safari. What browser are you using Marty?

Marty Martin · February 27th, 2004, 08:06 PM

Got it to work in Safari [ I generally use IE... don't ask me why :( ]

Alex Taylor · February 27th, 2004, 10:42 PM

Downloading it now...

Hey, I'm from Victoria too! What high school did you graduate from?

Marty Martin · February 27th, 2004, 11:03 PM

Alright... watched MOST of it... skimmed through the rest.

What I did like:
Obviously a big undertaking. A lot of effort went into this and there was some decent acting. SOME well framed shots and some good filming.

What I didn't like:
Story seemed pretty flat overall and got kind of tired to me. A lot of the camerawork was well done, and then some of it was just so amature that I felt like it devalued the good filming. As soon as I would start to take a scene seriously, it would be tarnished by some bad camerawork. That's just MY opinion though. Whereas some people like things to look like "video", I like it when it moves more towards a film-look.

I'd like to spend a little more time critiquing, but I gotta head out right now. All in all great work. I didn't care for it as a film, and it's not the kind of film I like to watch in general, but I appreciate the work that went into it and honestly feel you are on your way and have a lot of potential. Obviously a lot more work went into this than most people your age or even mine. So awesome job man!

Dylan Couper · February 28th, 2004, 11:44 AM

Marty
You should check out Colins other stuff. While the scope of that production may have left him short on manpower to keep it top notch all the way through, the rest of his productions are top quality. You could learn a thing or two about the "film look" from him.

Colin, still shocked and horrified at your bathroom fight scene. Brutal. Great work. I'm a fan.

Marty Martin · February 28th, 2004, 12:16 PM

Dylan,

I have looked at his other work and I think there is a lot of talent there. As for saying that I could learn a thing or two about the "film look"... I don't agree at all. His stuff looks like good video. DEFINITELY not film.

Anyways, let's keep the thread focused on what it was intended to focus on. For the film Choice [as well as some of the other works] I think there is also overuse of "POV" camera views ( a lot of following shots especially). Alos an overuse of extra sound effects. They may have been cool had they been layered with other sound effects. I know the intent was to create a more intense atmosphere, but it just came across as overexaggerated and cheesy.

But again... unquestionably a lot of potential talent here.

Dylan Couper · February 28th, 2004, 01:00 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Marty Martin : Dylan,

I have looked at his other work and I think there is a lot of talent there. As for saying that I could learn a thing or two about the "film look"... I don't agree at all. His stuff looks like good video. DEFINITELY not film.

-->>>

I agree with you in that nothing shot on video looks like film. However his lighting techniques and camera work certainly have a "pro look" which is what most people confuse "film look" with.
I'd say his stuff is on par with the best stuff from your Got Milk trailer.

Marty Martin · February 28th, 2004, 04:13 PM

OK, well I'm not going to get in a pissing match here, but I don't think most of his camerawork had a pro-look. You can simply tell that he has put more attention into camera shots. But lighting and overall camerawork were not astounding. It's just as simple as that.

And yes, camerawork is one of the key things to making video look like film. But there are many other things too.

And I think that some stuff shot on video does look like film. It is possible.

Colin Minihan · February 29th, 2004, 03:15 AM

what do you consider good camera work? sticking a camera on a nice dolly and smoothly gliding it?

i for one, i enjoy doing almost everything hand held.. and i like the hand held look......i love mayham..... i like to film without much control.... and i like to find the shot and feel the moment as im filming it.. with my hands. i consider this a lot more of a challenge, and more of an art form, rather than having a camera slapped on a firm dolly and moved in a straight line.....

But on a technical note, Choice was only color corrected in the most basic ways and almost no lighting was used because i didnt have any.... my new stuff i use lights because i can.... and i also use color correction software because i have it. Choice is also 80% adr and all atmospheric sound effects were recorded seperetly as well.. almost no sync sound....i never owned a boom mic.
Also, i was the only person on the crew... and organizing it... it was tough as hell to get ppl to show up and stay for more than a few hours.

Dylan, your right, i couldnt keep it at the top notch leval for all the scenes, and i agree that the story isnt done properly.. its because i had to alter the original script 1/4 through shooting because the former lead bully got kicked off production due to some bullshit....wish i could have done a better job on a consistent level, but all in all im very proud to have completed it and kept its production value as high as it is. all it was was me with a vx2k doing as best i could do make it good... and hell .. it beet out over 600 films made by adults at that festival in cali and picked up a directors pick best cinematography nod... thats cool on its own right.

thanks for your feedback.

Marty Martin · February 29th, 2004, 10:39 AM

Admittedly, we all have our own opinions of what good camerawork is and what not. I suppose i tend to prefer smooth moving camerawork, BUT I do like handheld as well [even films where there is nothing but handheld being used]. But handheld in itself is an art that has to be mastered. For me, your handheld work is a bit to jumpy [with some exceptions that looked very good], but overall it just feels very amature. On a more positive note... who cares if it looks amature? This is how you learn. This is how you get better.

And i know how the one person crew thing goes. It is very tough and gruelling work. But it puts anyone who does it to the test, and most people can't handle it or even do half as good as you did. So I'm not trying to come down on you at all with my other comments. I think overall, as I've said before, you have a lot of potential talent here, but right now it feels very unrefined.

I guess the only other thing is that I feel like a lot of your work includes some form of violence [especially Choice and the shoplifting movie]. And not just a little bit of violence either. Now, in my film GOT MILK, there is a good dose of bloody violence, but not for the sake of having violence. Whereas in your stuff, I felt like you were looking for a reason to use violence sometimes. Ya, it goes with the storylines and all, but it feels a bit excessive to me. I do commend you on going for a very graphic and believable rendition of violence however. More of a gritty feel, that I myself look to do. At least it makes it more realistic. But my question to you still is: Are you fascinated by bloody violence? Or am I reading too far into this?

In any case... I'm glad there are a few of us young talents out there to do something about our dreams. Are you hoping to become a director for a living? Keep in contact man. There'll only be a few of us left when the next wave of big directors hits in ten years or so.

February 27th, 2004, 06:30 PM	#1
Colin Minihan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canada, B.C Posts: 75	Choice If anybody wants to check out the 64 minute film i made last year called CHOICE, its online now. Recieved Best Cinematography at the Mini DV festival in hollywood earlier this year, and was an official selection in the victoria independent film fest. early feb04 http://www.smiley-films.com/choice.html the film took a lot out of me.. it was made during my grade 12 year of highschool....let me know what you think.

February 27th, 2004, 06:50 PM	#3
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Maybe he was having server problems, it's downloading as I write this. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 27th, 2004, 08:00 PM	#6
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	It worked for me using Safari. What browser are you using Marty? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 27th, 2004, 10:42 PM	#8
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	Downloading it now... Hey, I'm from Victoria too! What high school did you graduate from? __________________ alextaylor.org

February 28th, 2004, 11:44 AM	#10
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Marty You should check out Colins other stuff. While the scope of that production may have left him short on manpower to keep it top notch all the way through, the rest of his productions are top quality. You could learn a thing or two about the "film look" from him. Colin, still shocked and horrified at your bathroom fight scene. Brutal. Great work. I'm a fan. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

February 27th, 2004, 06:46 PM	#2
Marty Martin Permanently Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 116	The link doesn't work :( Awesome job for making such a huge effort in your 12th grade year. You're ahead of the pack in a big way man. Of course... I haven't seen the film yet either ;)

February 27th, 2004, 07:03 PM	#4
Marty Martin Permanently Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 116	I think it's an issue with macs and how they read the website. It's happened to me before. When I click on the words "click this", nothing happens. Doh! i wanted to check it out.

February 27th, 2004, 07:08 PM	#5
Colin Minihan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canada, B.C Posts: 75	yeah dude i dont know... i use macs all the time and have tested every link.. they all work.. try control clicking it???

February 27th, 2004, 08:06 PM	#7
Marty Martin Permanently Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 116	Got it to work in Safari [ I generally use IE... don't ask me why :( ]

February 27th, 2004, 11:03 PM	#9
Marty Martin Permanently Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 116	Alright... watched MOST of it... skimmed through the rest. What I did like: Obviously a big undertaking. A lot of effort went into this and there was some decent acting. SOME well framed shots and some good filming. What I didn't like: Story seemed pretty flat overall and got kind of tired to me. A lot of the camerawork was well done, and then some of it was just so amature that I felt like it devalued the good filming. As soon as I would start to take a scene seriously, it would be tarnished by some bad camerawork. That's just MY opinion though. Whereas some people like things to look like "video", I like it when it moves more towards a film-look. I'd like to spend a little more time critiquing, but I gotta head out right now. All in all great work. I didn't care for it as a film, and it's not the kind of film I like to watch in general, but I appreciate the work that went into it and honestly feel you are on your way and have a lot of potential. Obviously a lot more work went into this than most people your age or even mine. So awesome job man!

February 28th, 2004, 12:16 PM	#11
Marty Martin Permanently Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 116	Dylan, I have looked at his other work and I think there is a lot of talent there. As for saying that I could learn a thing or two about the "film look"... I don't agree at all. His stuff looks like good video. DEFINITELY not film. Anyways, let's keep the thread focused on what it was intended to focus on. For the film Choice [as well as some of the other works] I think there is also overuse of "POV" camera views ( a lot of following shots especially). Alos an overuse of extra sound effects. They may have been cool had they been layered with other sound effects. I know the intent was to create a more intense atmosphere, but it just came across as overexaggerated and cheesy. But again... unquestionably a lot of potential talent here.

February 28th, 2004, 01:00 PM	#12
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	<<<-- Originally posted by Marty Martin : Dylan, I have looked at his other work and I think there is a lot of talent there. As for saying that I could learn a thing or two about the "film look"... I don't agree at all. His stuff looks like good video. DEFINITELY not film. -->>> I agree with you in that nothing shot on video looks like film. However his lighting techniques and camera work certainly have a "pro look" which is what most people confuse "film look" with. I'd say his stuff is on par with the best stuff from your Got Milk trailer. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

February 28th, 2004, 04:13 PM	#13
Marty Martin Permanently Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 116	OK, well I'm not going to get in a pissing match here, but I don't think most of his camerawork had a pro-look. You can simply tell that he has put more attention into camera shots. But lighting and overall camerawork were not astounding. It's just as simple as that. And yes, camerawork is one of the key things to making video look like film. But there are many other things too. And I think that some stuff shot on video does look like film. It is possible.

February 29th, 2004, 03:15 AM	#14
Colin Minihan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canada, B.C Posts: 75	what do you consider good camera work? sticking a camera on a nice dolly and smoothly gliding it? i for one, i enjoy doing almost everything hand held.. and i like the hand held look......i love mayham..... i like to film without much control.... and i like to find the shot and feel the moment as im filming it.. with my hands. i consider this a lot more of a challenge, and more of an art form, rather than having a camera slapped on a firm dolly and moved in a straight line..... But on a technical note, Choice was only color corrected in the most basic ways and almost no lighting was used because i didnt have any.... my new stuff i use lights because i can.... and i also use color correction software because i have it. Choice is also 80% adr and all atmospheric sound effects were recorded seperetly as well.. almost no sync sound....i never owned a boom mic. Also, i was the only person on the crew... and organizing it... it was tough as hell to get ppl to show up and stay for more than a few hours. Dylan, your right, i couldnt keep it at the top notch leval for all the scenes, and i agree that the story isnt done properly.. its because i had to alter the original script 1/4 through shooting because the former lead bully got kicked off production due to some bullshit....wish i could have done a better job on a consistent level, but all in all im very proud to have completed it and kept its production value as high as it is. all it was was me with a vx2k doing as best i could do make it good... and hell .. it beet out over 600 films made by adults at that festival in cali and picked up a directors pick best cinematography nod... thats cool on its own right. thanks for your feedback.

February 29th, 2004, 10:39 AM	#15
Marty Martin Permanently Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 116	Admittedly, we all have our own opinions of what good camerawork is and what not. I suppose i tend to prefer smooth moving camerawork, BUT I do like handheld as well [even films where there is nothing but handheld being used]. But handheld in itself is an art that has to be mastered. For me, your handheld work is a bit to jumpy [with some exceptions that looked very good], but overall it just feels very amature. On a more positive note... who cares if it looks amature? This is how you learn. This is how you get better. And i know how the one person crew thing goes. It is very tough and gruelling work. But it puts anyone who does it to the test, and most people can't handle it or even do half as good as you did. So I'm not trying to come down on you at all with my other comments. I think overall, as I've said before, you have a lot of potential talent here, but right now it feels very unrefined. I guess the only other thing is that I feel like a lot of your work includes some form of violence [especially Choice and the shoplifting movie]. And not just a little bit of violence either. Now, in my film GOT MILK, there is a good dose of bloody violence, but not for the sake of having violence. Whereas in your stuff, I felt like you were looking for a reason to use violence sometimes. Ya, it goes with the storylines and all, but it feels a bit excessive to me. I do commend you on going for a very graphic and believable rendition of violence however. More of a gritty feel, that I myself look to do. At least it makes it more realistic. But my question to you still is: Are you fascinated by bloody violence? Or am I reading too far into this? In any case... I'm glad there are a few of us young talents out there to do something about our dreams. Are you hoping to become a director for a living? Keep in contact man. There'll only be a few of us left when the next wave of big directors hits in ten years or so.