Check this out.. at DVinfo.net

Andreas Fernbrant · September 24th, 2003, 06:40 PM

My latest work.
This is one of the short "films" I will use in my longer movie "saltomortalez" it's a movie for gymnasts and dancers.

This short project was an idea I've had for quite some time. A girl from a very known school here in Sweden helped me out.

As usual it's not 100% done. No color correction or any picture manipulation is done. It's raw from the camera (edited) and no sound effects so bare with me on those subjects. I know some of the "black" dance scenes are dark on most monitors but they look great on TV.

For all you technical freaks, this is what we used.
One Canon XL1S Pal, Monitor, 2 lights ($5 Halogen) and some diffusing material and skateboards for the camera work. 2 guys helped me out with some basic stuff and still with a perfect screenplay it took 10 hours of intensive shooting to get it done. Never been so tired in my life.

Music was made with my instructions by my brother and my dad
plays guitar. (fun information)
Another fun fact for you is that this is my second serious project in my life. I did a video for a group that thought they looked too old and the video too much video before this project :)

And please comment! :)

Right Click for Windows (WMV 8)
http://www.atamashi.com/dance/atamashidance.wmv

Click for Mac (MOV Sorensen 3)
http://www.atamashi.com/dance/atamashidance.mov

Bryan Roberts · September 24th, 2003, 07:15 PM

Andreas - I thought this piece was well thought out however in a few places, the execution was a little off. The first blaring problem was with the blatant continuity error in the beginning with the girl walking up the stairs. We have the tracking shot CU of her feet and then cut to a shot where her left foot appeared already at the top of the stair. These sort of little errors can really start things off in the wrong direction which is bad when you have a piece that you've put so much work into like this one. I thought the transition from the sweeping the floor to the stage with the spot light on was good however from there, I felt like there was just not enough going on, just her doing dance moves on the same stage. I guess I'm not a dancer so obviously I felt it got slow :) . Finally, I thought the music felt a little disconnected from the piece because the lack of ambient sound. It is obvious when there is no room tone etc and only the clear sound of the music that all the music was added in post. Without the room tone and some sounds, you send a disconnected feeling with the viewer. I always like to reference a movie called "Traffic" when discussing this. If you've seen it, the part I'm reffering to is where the female main character (Catherine Zeta Jones) is instructed to go home after finding out her husband is a drug dealer and is driving in her Mercedes SUV, the room tones and ambient sounds drop out and all we have is the background music which gives a very different disconnecting/disturbing feel. Soderbergh is one of my favs though :) Best of luck Andreas!

Hans Nyberg · September 24th, 2003, 09:10 PM

Andreas, I'm no expert but I think you did an excellent job. I replayed it several timesand still couldn't spot the continuity error. Keep up the good work.

Federico Dib · September 25th, 2003, 04:38 AM

Hi, I think your images look great. Even without any "image manipulation" it sure looks very professional...
I´m not into "dancing people" or that kind of music, but you sure got my attention.
About the continuity "error"... I also saw a GAP.. although I don´t know if it´s a "continuity error" or just a time "elipsis?".. You actually never see how long are the stairs... but there is a little gap there...

Anyway.... how did you compressed-exported your clip? I´m trying to get decent results compressing a 2'30 video... for less than 10 megs... But haven´t been able yet... And I see your WMV compression is great for a 8 meg clip...

Andreas Fernbrant · September 26th, 2003, 03:22 AM

Federico;
I use Vegas to make my WMV files. I use (codec 8) because people have yet to update to Windows Mediaplayer 9. I use a setting of 500K/Sec compression. And ofcouse I pull down the size to half pal.

Yes, a small "timelapse" was used. The stairs themself was very long so I knew from the top I needed to do something about that. I guess I could have shown a bit more of her step ontop. But for me that was one of the minor problems.

Personally I think it turned out ok. (read: quite pleased)
But the video has some faults in it but I will leave it at that for now.

There are over 80 views on this thread and just a few replies?
No one else want to comment? Was it really so bad?

Jay Gladwell · September 26th, 2003, 09:14 AM

Andreas, I think your dance video looks great! There isn't a film or video ever made that didn't have some room for improvement. I disagree with the statement that there were "blaring" (glaring) problems. Frankly, I think the points others made, valid though they may be, are very miniscule in the overall scheme of this piece.

What you've undertaken here is no small task--covering a dance routine with one camera! You see, having done it, how time consuming such a "simple" idea can be? Of course you do! You have every reason to be proud of this.

What I'm about to say is not a criticism. It's simply another person's idea of what may or may not be an alternative ending, depending on what you're trying to accomplish. How would it impact the piece--the audiences' emotional investment in the piece and the character--if after the guy yells at her you cut to her standing there, somewhat humiliated, then she makes those last few broom strokes before we see her walk back down the isle?

Such an ending would should how easily we can dash the hopes and dreams of another person with very little effort--perhaps without even realizing we've done it.

Then again, that probaly isn't what you're attempting to do. Just a thought.

By-the-way, I *really* liked the music!

Based on the fact this is your second video, you've done far better than most and as good as many. So do keep up the good work!

Andreas Fernbrant · September 26th, 2003, 12:43 PM

Jay,

If I tell you the story that was in my head we can see how it fits, Because I did something wrong. My intent was to do exactly as you said. He yells. She get's humiliated.

The whole story is:

She is a cleaning lady for this place, and she always dreamed of being a dancer. When she is alone she steps up to her dream and get so involved that even the light changes. (dark dance) or the spotlight is ONLY on her. (but this is only in her mind) as it is in the movie. It's her time to shine. One thing is that she get's to throw her broom away and with that I tried to show how she gets liberated from her work and really becomes the dancer. All this get's interupted by this mean boss that yells to her. She gets supprised, scared and humiliated. The boss leaves and in one last rebellion she dances.

That was my intent. But perhaps it didn't come through?
Perhaps she was too good of a dancer and needed to be more of an acress to express the emotions for it to show? Perhaps I tried to tell a difficult and complex story in to little time and in a incorrect way for it to be obvious?

I'll tell my brother you like his music.
Perhaps those 4 years of film scoring at Berklee paid off? ;)

Jay Gladwell · September 26th, 2003, 01:23 PM

Andreas, there's a term here in the US... "arm-chair quarterback." It refers to those of us who sit comfortably in our big, comfortable armchairs watching football games on television, making comments as to what the quarterback should and shouldn't have done to win the game. Easy to do in the comfort at home. Not so easy do to under the pressure of the game!

I don't know that a different actress (who could dance as well) would have accomplished what you suggest. Maybe...

Yes, the idea of her being rebellious came through loud and clear, if that was your intention. However, if I understood you correctly, you suggested above that it wasn't. That's where it boils down to a directorial decision--what is the "best" way to get this idea across to the audience "visually"?

There have been many occasions--usually in editing--that a director will "see" that this or that isn't coming across in the way he had invisioned it. More often than not, it requires a "tightening up" of the piece--getting rid of what isn't working--in order to clarify the director's vision (as well as tell a more compelling story).

Perhaps you might, for your own learning experince and gratification, go back and recut the ending. The music is already written/performed in such a way that it lends itself perfectly to this alternate ending. Whether or not anyone else sees it is immaterial. What is import is that "you" see it and that you see (and understand) how it does or doesn't tell your story in a more effective manner. Just a suggestion.

Now that you've had this experience, I have no doubts that your next project, and each one there after, will be an improvement on the last.

I still think you've done an outstanding job! Thanks for sharing it with us.

Dylan Couper · September 26th, 2003, 02:00 PM

Andreas, your point came through very well. This was a very good piece, thumbs up all the way.
I would have put more light on the dancer from the spotlight, or added a rear light to highlight her a little more. She seemed a bit dim for being a spotlight, I think she may have been underlit in comparison to the scenes where she is walking up to the stage. Nothing you can do about it now, but it didn't spoil the overall feel any.

Also, in regards to continuity errors in her walking, well... There is a saying that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, so I won't say anything. I've made way worse errors than that. No biggie. I wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't read the above posts first.

Graeme Nattress · September 26th, 2003, 02:17 PM

Good stuff Anreas - I'm looking forwards to seeing what you're going to do with colour correction etc. I think some careful manipulation will really help bring out the contrast between the life as cleaner and life as dancer.

Graeme

Harry Doyle · December 25th, 2003, 05:57 PM

nice work! i didn't know people could do flippity stuff like that hehe.

can you tell me where i can get a copy of the song you used?

thanks!
harry

Andreas Fernbrant · December 25th, 2003, 06:16 PM

Hi Harry,

I'm not sure what song you mean? If you refer to the "flippy" stuff in the teaser for the movie? Or the song to the clip that's not up anymore (the one this thread is about)

The music to the film this thread is about (a girl dancing in a large concert hall) was made by my brother. He attended berklee in Boston (major in filmscoreing) The song was special written by him before we made the film.

If you mean the music to the "flippy" stuff and the teaser it's made by my friend. His name is Emil and his homepage is
www.cavalrymusic.com

Emil helps me with the music to my movie. It's all written just for the DVD I'm going to release.

If you care to be more specific I'm sure I can help you out with a copy!

/Andreas

<<<-- Originally posted by Harry Doyle : nice work! i didn't know people could do flippity stuff like that hehe.

can you tell me where i can get a copy of the song you used?

thanks!
harry -->>>

Harry Doyle · December 25th, 2003, 06:21 PM

hi,
i'm sorry about that.. it's the music in the trailer listed above at http://www.atamashi.com/dance/atamashidance.wmv

it's cool that you guys did the music custom for your video.

harry

Mickey Stroud · December 25th, 2003, 07:51 PM

Andreas,
Would love to see your video, but I keep getting a 404. Have you taken it down?
Mickey

Andreas Fernbrant · December 26th, 2003, 08:42 AM

Yes, I did..
I can post it again.. (along with some new ones)

Check back in a few hours or so!

September 24th, 2003, 06:40 PM	#1
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Check this out.. My latest work. This is one of the short "films" I will use in my longer movie "saltomortalez" it's a movie for gymnasts and dancers. This short project was an idea I've had for quite some time. A girl from a very known school here in Sweden helped me out. As usual it's not 100% done. No color correction or any picture manipulation is done. It's raw from the camera (edited) and no sound effects so bare with me on those subjects. I know some of the "black" dance scenes are dark on most monitors but they look great on TV. For all you technical freaks, this is what we used. One Canon XL1S Pal, Monitor, 2 lights ($5 Halogen) and some diffusing material and skateboards for the camera work. 2 guys helped me out with some basic stuff and still with a perfect screenplay it took 10 hours of intensive shooting to get it done. Never been so tired in my life. Music was made with my instructions by my brother and my dad plays guitar. (fun information) Another fun fact for you is that this is my second serious project in my life. I did a video for a group that thought they looked too old and the video too much video before this project :) And please comment! :) Right Click for Windows (WMV 8) http://www.atamashi.com/dance/atamashidance.wmv Click for Mac (MOV Sorensen 3) http://www.atamashi.com/dance/atamashidance.mov

September 24th, 2003, 09:10 PM	#3
Hans Nyberg New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 15	Andreas, I'm no expert but I think you did an excellent job. I replayed it several timesand still couldn't spot the continuity error. Keep up the good work. __________________ Hans Nyberg Novi, MI www.tenmilemedia.com

September 25th, 2003, 04:38 AM	#4
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	Hi, I think your images look great. Even without any "image manipulation" it sure looks very professional... I´m not into "dancing people" or that kind of music, but you sure got my attention. About the continuity "error"... I also saw a GAP.. although I don´t know if it´s a "continuity error" or just a time "elipsis?".. You actually never see how long are the stairs... but there is a little gap there... Anyway.... how did you compressed-exported your clip? I´m trying to get decent results compressing a 2'30 video... for less than 10 megs... But haven´t been able yet... And I see your WMV compression is great for a 8 meg clip... __________________ Messenger Boy : The Thessalonian you're fighting, he's the biggest man I've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him. Achilles : That is why no one will remember your name.

September 26th, 2003, 02:00 PM	#9
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Andreas, your point came through very well. This was a very good piece, thumbs up all the way. I would have put more light on the dancer from the spotlight, or added a rear light to highlight her a little more. She seemed a bit dim for being a spotlight, I think she may have been underlit in comparison to the scenes where she is walking up to the stage. Nothing you can do about it now, but it didn't spoil the overall feel any. Also, in regards to continuity errors in her walking, well... There is a saying that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, so I won't say anything. I've made way worse errors than that. No biggie. I wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't read the above posts first. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

September 26th, 2003, 02:17 PM	#10
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Good stuff Anreas - I'm looking forwards to seeing what you're going to do with colour correction etc. I think some careful manipulation will really help bring out the contrast between the life as cleaner and life as dancer. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

September 24th, 2003, 07:15 PM	#2
Bryan Roberts Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 436	Andreas - I thought this piece was well thought out however in a few places, the execution was a little off. The first blaring problem was with the blatant continuity error in the beginning with the girl walking up the stairs. We have the tracking shot CU of her feet and then cut to a shot where her left foot appeared already at the top of the stair. These sort of little errors can really start things off in the wrong direction which is bad when you have a piece that you've put so much work into like this one. I thought the transition from the sweeping the floor to the stage with the spot light on was good however from there, I felt like there was just not enough going on, just her doing dance moves on the same stage. I guess I'm not a dancer so obviously I felt it got slow :) . Finally, I thought the music felt a little disconnected from the piece because the lack of ambient sound. It is obvious when there is no room tone etc and only the clear sound of the music that all the music was added in post. Without the room tone and some sounds, you send a disconnected feeling with the viewer. I always like to reference a movie called "Traffic" when discussing this. If you've seen it, the part I'm reffering to is where the female main character (Catherine Zeta Jones) is instructed to go home after finding out her husband is a drug dealer and is driving in her Mercedes SUV, the room tones and ambient sounds drop out and all we have is the background music which gives a very different disconnecting/disturbing feel. Soderbergh is one of my favs though :) Best of luck Andreas!

September 26th, 2003, 03:22 AM	#5
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Federico; I use Vegas to make my WMV files. I use (codec 8) because people have yet to update to Windows Mediaplayer 9. I use a setting of 500K/Sec compression. And ofcouse I pull down the size to half pal. Yes, a small "timelapse" was used. The stairs themself was very long so I knew from the top I needed to do something about that. I guess I could have shown a bit more of her step ontop. But for me that was one of the minor problems. Personally I think it turned out ok. (read: quite pleased) But the video has some faults in it but I will leave it at that for now. There are over 80 views on this thread and just a few replies? No one else want to comment? Was it really so bad?

September 26th, 2003, 09:14 AM	#6
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Andreas, I think your dance video looks great! There isn't a film or video ever made that didn't have some room for improvement. I disagree with the statement that there were "blaring" (glaring) problems. Frankly, I think the points others made, valid though they may be, are very miniscule in the overall scheme of this piece. What you've undertaken here is no small task--covering a dance routine with one camera! You see, having done it, how time consuming such a "simple" idea can be? Of course you do! You have every reason to be proud of this. What I'm about to say is not a criticism. It's simply another person's idea of what may or may not be an alternative ending, depending on what you're trying to accomplish. How would it impact the piece--the audiences' emotional investment in the piece and the character--if after the guy yells at her you cut to her standing there, somewhat humiliated, then she makes those last few broom strokes before we see her walk back down the isle? Such an ending would should how easily we can dash the hopes and dreams of another person with very little effort--perhaps without even realizing we've done it. Then again, that probaly isn't what you're attempting to do. Just a thought. By-the-way, I really liked the music! Based on the fact this is your second video, you've done far better than most and as good as many. So do keep up the good work!

September 26th, 2003, 12:43 PM	#7
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Jay, If I tell you the story that was in my head we can see how it fits, Because I did something wrong. My intent was to do exactly as you said. He yells. She get's humiliated. The whole story is: She is a cleaning lady for this place, and she always dreamed of being a dancer. When she is alone she steps up to her dream and get so involved that even the light changes. (dark dance) or the spotlight is ONLY on her. (but this is only in her mind) as it is in the movie. It's her time to shine. One thing is that she get's to throw her broom away and with that I tried to show how she gets liberated from her work and really becomes the dancer. All this get's interupted by this mean boss that yells to her. She gets supprised, scared and humiliated. The boss leaves and in one last rebellion she dances. That was my intent. But perhaps it didn't come through? Perhaps she was too good of a dancer and needed to be more of an acress to express the emotions for it to show? Perhaps I tried to tell a difficult and complex story in to little time and in a incorrect way for it to be obvious? I'll tell my brother you like his music. Perhaps those 4 years of film scoring at Berklee paid off? ;)

September 26th, 2003, 01:23 PM	#8
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Andreas, there's a term here in the US... "arm-chair quarterback." It refers to those of us who sit comfortably in our big, comfortable armchairs watching football games on television, making comments as to what the quarterback should and shouldn't have done to win the game. Easy to do in the comfort at home. Not so easy do to under the pressure of the game! I don't know that a different actress (who could dance as well) would have accomplished what you suggest. Maybe... Yes, the idea of her being rebellious came through loud and clear, if that was your intention. However, if I understood you correctly, you suggested above that it wasn't. That's where it boils down to a directorial decision--what is the "best" way to get this idea across to the audience "visually"? There have been many occasions--usually in editing--that a director will "see" that this or that isn't coming across in the way he had invisioned it. More often than not, it requires a "tightening up" of the piece--getting rid of what isn't working--in order to clarify the director's vision (as well as tell a more compelling story). Perhaps you might, for your own learning experince and gratification, go back and recut the ending. The music is already written/performed in such a way that it lends itself perfectly to this alternate ending. Whether or not anyone else sees it is immaterial. What is import is that "you" see it and that you see (and understand) how it does or doesn't tell your story in a more effective manner. Just a suggestion. Now that you've had this experience, I have no doubts that your next project, and each one there after, will be an improvement on the last. I still think you've done an outstanding job! Thanks for sharing it with us.

December 25th, 2003, 05:57 PM	#11
Harry Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sydney, NS, Canada Posts: 40	nice work! i didn't know people could do flippity stuff like that hehe. can you tell me where i can get a copy of the song you used? thanks! harry

December 25th, 2003, 06:16 PM	#12
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Hi Harry, I'm not sure what song you mean? If you refer to the "flippy" stuff in the teaser for the movie? Or the song to the clip that's not up anymore (the one this thread is about) The music to the film this thread is about (a girl dancing in a large concert hall) was made by my brother. He attended berklee in Boston (major in filmscoreing) The song was special written by him before we made the film. If you mean the music to the "flippy" stuff and the teaser it's made by my friend. His name is Emil and his homepage is www.cavalrymusic.com Emil helps me with the music to my movie. It's all written just for the DVD I'm going to release. If you care to be more specific I'm sure I can help you out with a copy! /Andreas <<<-- Originally posted by Harry Doyle : nice work! i didn't know people could do flippity stuff like that hehe. can you tell me where i can get a copy of the song you used? thanks! harry -->>>

December 25th, 2003, 06:21 PM	#13
Harry Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sydney, NS, Canada Posts: 40	hi, i'm sorry about that.. it's the music in the trailer listed above at http://www.atamashi.com/dance/atamashidance.wmv it's cool that you guys did the music custom for your video. harry

December 25th, 2003, 07:51 PM	#14
Mickey Stroud Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas,TX Posts: 76	Trying to check it out Andreas, Would love to see your video, but I keep getting a 404. Have you taken it down? Mickey

December 26th, 2003, 08:42 AM	#15
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Yes, I did.. I can post it again.. (along with some new ones) Check back in a few hours or so!