The Pain. . .the pain at DVinfo.net

Josh Bass · June 14th, 2003, 10:23 AM

When shooting handheld with my XL1s, that is, shoulder mounted, with manual lens, BP945 battery, and sometimes a light, I start to feel a lot of pain in my back and shoulders fairly quickly. I've got several different shoulder mount setups I've tried, but nothing completely eliminates it. Part of it, I'm sure, is because I'm so damn short that I usually have to shoot upward.

What do you guys do? Do you just have to accept the Pain and deal with it? Is it part of the job? Have any of you transcended the Pain? I know there's other short guys out there, some probably using Betacams and such. What do they do?

Bryan Beasleigh · June 14th, 2003, 11:15 AM

Josh
I have the same problem but I'm tall and just old I guess. I have very bad arthritis , a mal formed right arm (too many breaks), a screwed up right knee and a degenerated lower spine. So far the lack of hair and the beer belly haven't become an issue.

The shoulder mounts that I've tried haven't done much. I have a Marzpak on order and I'll let you know how it works. It makes more sense than all of the shoulder braces, at least in my case. The dork factor is high , but then, that's life.

OyVey the pain!

Zac Stein · June 14th, 2003, 11:46 AM

Ichvies (i know)

What can you do, i found the best solution to get someone else to shlep the thing and tell them what to do then take 90% of the money for being the manager/director/leader of the group.
Worked wonders for my very bad neck.

Zac

Josh Bass · June 14th, 2003, 12:07 PM

Sorry, dudes, no Marzpak. I've spent enough. Zac, I'm usually alone as the shooter when the Pain becomes an issue.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · June 14th, 2003, 12:26 PM

Yoga.

Frank Granovski · June 14th, 2003, 01:46 PM

I'm in a similar condition as Bryan - "OyVey the pain!"

However, I work out doing TaiChi and BaGwa. http://www.8palm.com - This keeps me together. :)

Bryan Beasleigh · June 14th, 2003, 01:57 PM

Robert
Yoga is only one word.

Comfort and a natural stance is still an issue that must be addressed. I looked at all of the possibilities in detail. Unless the center of gravity can be moved back over the shoulder it will be awkward, transferring the weight to the hips is better yet.

The biggest problem is lack of enough serious reviews. Many will buy a product just because it looks cool. Many will offer no negative comments simply because they don't want to admit making a mistake.

Josh
I didn't tell you to run out and buy a marzpak, I said I would let you know if it did the job. I was trying to help you with your pain issue.

When i get this rig up and running I intend on reporting back to the group so that people may benifit from my experience (pro or con). It's really hard buying equipment without the chance to try it first.

Nigel Moore · June 14th, 2003, 02:56 PM

Bryan

Some of us would be genuinely interested in your experience with the Marzpak.

Cheers

Dean Sensui · June 14th, 2003, 05:03 PM

Josh...

There's an ancient Asian concept of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter :-)

I can't think of any exercises right off hand that would help, except to lift weights in a similar manner. It would help build up some of the muscles used to support the camera in that position.

A lot of the problem has to do with endurance, and that can only be improved by carrying a weight for extended periods of times -- learned that through cycling a few thousand miles per year! Don't have much time to do that lately.

I take rests as often as possible. Sometimes I'll make a fist and stick it under my right elbow or upper arm, allowing the camera's weight to be supported through the forearm, my fist and into my chest. Similar to the way a rifle shooter gets into the standing position. That way your skeletal structure supports the weight, not your muscles. It also allows the shoulder to be lifted slightly and takes the strain from your neck. Leaning slightly to the left will help put the camera more in the centerline of your hips and reduce the assymetric strain.

Another rest position is to cradle the camera across my midriff with both arms, and taking a slight lean backward.

If my hand is still on the hand grip, to cross my right arm over my chest, place the camera directly across me, and bring my left arm across the right arm to keep it all in place. Again that slight backward lean to bring the weight over my hips and take the strain off my lower back. I can get into a normal shooting position quickly by just uncrossing my left arm and moving the camera back onto my shoulder.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

Robert J. Wolff · June 20th, 2003, 03:53 AM

I used the PCP-60, which weighed in at 56 pounds, to cover football. (For the benifit of those over seas, the game runs about 3 hours).

I did this for years.

The only solution that I ever found was to just grin and bear it.

I blessed the lighter PCP-70, when it arrived on our shores.

My XL-1s, is a wonderful joy-toy on my shoulder.

I am 5 feet 8 inches in height. I think your problem doesn't exit in your height.

I'm no doc. But, it might be a pinched nerve.

Josh Bass · June 20th, 2003, 11:01 AM

Not just a case of bein' a wussy? What about a back brace? Anyone tried that?

Dean Sensui · June 20th, 2003, 01:06 PM

Robert...

56 pounds!

You're 5'8" but you used to be 6'2", right?

:-)

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

Rick Spilman · June 20th, 2003, 01:35 PM

The main reason I didn't buy an XL1 many years ago - it has the ergonomics that only your chiropractor could love.

Josh Bass · June 20th, 2003, 03:21 PM

But at least it feels like there's something on your shoulder. The weight makes you feel like a man. And if, God forbid, I ever operate a "real" camera, at least I'll have half an idea of what to expect. OOOh. . .I hope it's an all metal 40 pound betacam.

Imran Zaidi · June 20th, 2003, 03:34 PM

One day lipstick cameras will be in HD. We can just tape em to our heads and go to town.

June 14th, 2003, 10:23 AM	#1
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	The Pain. . .the pain When shooting handheld with my XL1s, that is, shoulder mounted, with manual lens, BP945 battery, and sometimes a light, I start to feel a lot of pain in my back and shoulders fairly quickly. I've got several different shoulder mount setups I've tried, but nothing completely eliminates it. Part of it, I'm sure, is because I'm so damn short that I usually have to shoot upward. What do you guys do? Do you just have to accept the Pain and deal with it? Is it part of the job? Have any of you transcended the Pain? I know there's other short guys out there, some probably using Betacams and such. What do they do? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 14th, 2003, 12:07 PM	#4
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Sorry, dudes, no Marzpak. I've spent enough. Zac, I'm usually alone as the shooter when the Pain becomes an issue. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 14th, 2003, 12:26 PM	#5
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Two words Yoga. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 20th, 2003, 03:53 AM	#10
Robert J. Wolff Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Adirondacks of New York Posts: 210	???the pain I used the PCP-60, which weighed in at 56 pounds, to cover football. (For the benifit of those over seas, the game runs about 3 hours). I did this for years. The only solution that I ever found was to just grin and bear it. I blessed the lighter PCP-70, when it arrived on our shores. My XL-1s, is a wonderful joy-toy on my shoulder. I am 5 feet 8 inches in height. I think your problem doesn't exit in your height. I'm no doc. But, it might be a pinched nerve. __________________ Himself

June 20th, 2003, 11:01 AM	#11
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Not just a case of bein' a wussy? What about a back brace? Anyone tried that? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 14th, 2003, 11:15 AM	#2
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Josh I have the same problem but I'm tall and just old I guess. I have very bad arthritis , a mal formed right arm (too many breaks), a screwed up right knee and a degenerated lower spine. So far the lack of hair and the beer belly haven't become an issue. The shoulder mounts that I've tried haven't done much. I have a Marzpak on order and I'll let you know how it works. It makes more sense than all of the shoulder braces, at least in my case. The dork factor is high , but then, that's life. OyVey the pain!

June 14th, 2003, 11:46 AM	#3
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	Ichvies (i know) What can you do, i found the best solution to get someone else to shlep the thing and tell them what to do then take 90% of the money for being the manager/director/leader of the group. Worked wonders for my very bad neck. Zac

June 14th, 2003, 01:46 PM	#6
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I'm in a similar condition as Bryan - "OyVey the pain!" However, I work out doing TaiChi and BaGwa. http://www.8palm.com - This keeps me together. :)

June 14th, 2003, 01:57 PM	#7
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Robert Yoga is only one word. Comfort and a natural stance is still an issue that must be addressed. I looked at all of the possibilities in detail. Unless the center of gravity can be moved back over the shoulder it will be awkward, transferring the weight to the hips is better yet. The biggest problem is lack of enough serious reviews. Many will buy a product just because it looks cool. Many will offer no negative comments simply because they don't want to admit making a mistake. Josh I didn't tell you to run out and buy a marzpak, I said I would let you know if it did the job. I was trying to help you with your pain issue. When i get this rig up and running I intend on reporting back to the group so that people may benifit from my experience (pro or con). It's really hard buying equipment without the chance to try it first.

June 14th, 2003, 02:56 PM	#8
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	Bryan Some of us would be genuinely interested in your experience with the Marzpak. Cheers

June 14th, 2003, 05:03 PM	#9
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Josh... There's an ancient Asian concept of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter :-) I can't think of any exercises right off hand that would help, except to lift weights in a similar manner. It would help build up some of the muscles used to support the camera in that position. A lot of the problem has to do with endurance, and that can only be improved by carrying a weight for extended periods of times -- learned that through cycling a few thousand miles per year! Don't have much time to do that lately. I take rests as often as possible. Sometimes I'll make a fist and stick it under my right elbow or upper arm, allowing the camera's weight to be supported through the forearm, my fist and into my chest. Similar to the way a rifle shooter gets into the standing position. That way your skeletal structure supports the weight, not your muscles. It also allows the shoulder to be lifted slightly and takes the strain from your neck. Leaning slightly to the left will help put the camera more in the centerline of your hips and reduce the assymetric strain. Another rest position is to cradle the camera across my midriff with both arms, and taking a slight lean backward. If my hand is still on the hand grip, to cross my right arm over my chest, place the camera directly across me, and bring my left arm across the right arm to keep it all in place. Again that slight backward lean to bring the weight over my hips and take the strain off my lower back. I can get into a normal shooting position quickly by just uncrossing my left arm and moving the camera back onto my shoulder. Dean Sensui Base Two Productions

June 20th, 2003, 01:06 PM	#12
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Robert... 56 pounds! You're 5'8" but you used to be 6'2", right? :-) Dean Sensui Base Two Productions

June 20th, 2003, 01:35 PM	#13
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	The main reason I didn't buy an XL1 many years ago - it has the ergonomics that only your chiropractor could love.

June 20th, 2003, 03:21 PM	#14
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	But at least it feels like there's something on your shoulder. The weight makes you feel like a man. And if, God forbid, I ever operate a "real" camera, at least I'll have half an idea of what to expect. OOOh. . .I hope it's an all metal 40 pound betacam. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 20th, 2003, 03:34 PM	#15
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	One day lipstick cameras will be in HD. We can just tape em to our heads and go to town.