Script Writing Books-Suggestions at DVinfo.net

Hal Wolin · October 2nd, 2006, 12:21 AM

So most of the suggestions from everyone on books for Lighting, Editing, and everything have been pretty good.

I'm looking for a suggestion or two on books that would help me improve the flow and rhythm of my dialogue.

Any suggestions?

Gary McClurg · October 2nd, 2006, 08:28 AM

I could be wrong on the spelling of his last name... but anything by William Frouge... actually I'm... but hopefully that's close enough...

Emre Safak · October 2nd, 2006, 08:46 AM

While I have no specific recommendations, I generally like the offerings of Michael Wiese press.

John Kang · October 3rd, 2006, 05:38 PM

How about finding a movie you like and getting the script from the bookstore?

The Art section at your local Barnes or Borders should have several movie scripts you can browse through.

I think it's the best way to see how the director intended to shoot the scene based upon the script.

If you're talking about formatting, try the demo scriptwriting programs like Final Draft, etc... and see if you like it.

Scott Tebeau · October 3rd, 2006, 06:07 PM

Hal,
This is just one persons opinion.

I’ve read stacks of screenwriting books and without fail the majority of them are loaded with device that offer nothing more then tricks and pretense that will get you no closer to learning how to write.

To learn to write means you have to dedicate yourself to subjects you understand and write about them with honesty and forget about what is cool.

People may have different opinions about approach but I think that understanding the basics of story comes first.

I would say you might want to take a look at "Story" by Robert McKee. It is caulked full of theory and complicated stuff, but will plant some good seeds even in your first pass at it. I have been returning to it for years and new things keep presenting themselves as I catch up with the text.

Richard Alvarez · October 3rd, 2006, 07:30 PM

Lots of good books on format...any of them are alright. My favorite two books on the mechanics of discipline and narrative structure would have to be

How to Write a Movie in 21 Days - By Viki King. Nuts and bolts format, good tips for keeping your butt in a chair, and organizing your thoughts.

and

The Writers Journey - by Christopher Vogler. Excellent examination of the Hero's Journey in Cinematic Storytelling. A 'pocket guide' to Joseph Campbell if you will, outlining archetypes and turning points. Really good stuff.

If you could only buy two books... those two would be my recommendations.

My advice to first time writers.

"Don't get it right... get it written." The best advice ever given to me. Read up on the format... only takes a few minutes. And put your butt in a chair and WRITE. It's all about B.T.U's. Butt Time Units. Keep writing till you're done.

THEN

Rewrite Rewrite Rewrite and Rewrite again. That's when the books come in handy. Something is not clicking in the script? Check with the books for possible solutions. BUT GET TO THE END. I've known too many scripts that languish when they get to a hard spot... cause people keep trying to 'fix' a work in progress.

DON'T GET IT RIGHT - GET IT WRITTEN.

Then Rewrite.

'nuff said.

Keith Loh · October 3rd, 2006, 08:03 PM

No one here has really addressed the initial question which is what resources (books, etc) one could look at for dialogue. I'd like to know as well.

My only answer is to read similar scripts in the same genre.

Also to make sure that dialogue furthers the story, not just is there for the sake of wit.

I cannot count the number of amateur screenplays I've read that take too much from Tarantino. The royale with cheese segment is cited too often. Or the Like a Virgin discussion from Reservoir Dogs.

Jeff Cottrone · October 3rd, 2006, 10:37 PM

I've read probably 30 screenwriting books and none of them dealt with how to write dialogue. The three best things you can do are: pay a heightened attention to every person you come across in your life (what do they talk about, what are their speech rhythms, what is their vocabulary level, how much swearing do they do...); study other scripts; and write write write. The more attention you put on it the deeper you will penetrate into how to duplicate it on paper. No one can teach you that.

I'd say of the 30 books I read only 5 or so were worthwhile. And of those five, at this moment, I only remember two of them, and not because they were just mentioned above: Story by Robert McKee is the most insightful book I ever read, but it is complex; and The Writer's Journey by Vogler is also a great book. Oh, just remembered one more: it's a combination seminar with Vogler and Michael Hauge. While Vogler focuses on the inner journey of the main character, Hauge focuses on the outer, physical plot that is the context for that journey. It's called The Hero's Two Journey's.

Get those three things, go over and over them as you write everyday until your eyes bleed, then in five years you'll know what you're doing. Good luck.

Jay Kavi · October 4th, 2006, 01:35 AM

I personally like "making a good script great" I forgot the author. I've found no books I've read are really good for dialog. I agree that before you can get a good feeling for dialog you need to concentrate on listening, and write what you hear and not what you think. but definitely write! I usually write very little dialog to start, do a read through with some friends, then work on it with the actors (they're gonna disagree with it anyway). Hope that helps

Keith Loh · October 4th, 2006, 08:15 AM

My most valuable experience at the Praxis workshops was when a bunch of actors read through my entire feature. You get a real feel not only for the dialogue but also for pracing.

Gary McClurg · October 4th, 2006, 08:46 AM

Good Script Great is by Linda Seiger... I believe...

I like the Frogue books the best... most of the books are just different repeats or their take on the format...

What I don't like is the guys who teach... well this or that has got to happen on page 3 and this or that has got to happen on page 10...

Yes there are rules... but let the rules help you... so what if the thing that's suppose to happen on page 10 and it comes out on page 11... for example if your film is a comedy and the reader is laughing his or her ass off...they won't reject the script because "well gee the thing that was suppose to happen on page 10 happen on page 11... so I guess I can't buy the script because it didn't fit these writing guru's ideas... even though its the funnest thing I ever read"...

And basically what Richard said...

Michael Gilbert · October 15th, 2006, 11:47 PM

They dont really deal with good dialogue writing techniques, the best teacher for that is observation but as far as flow and structure, I refer to Syd Field's Screenplay: The foundations of Screenplay and also The Screenwritings Bible by David Trottier. Both of these books are very helpful. Both books refer to Films both classic and newly filmed to explain their ideas and clarify their points. You combine these books with some creative writing guides and books. a little creativity on your own part, and they are very powerful tools in writing screenplays that are properly formatted and very interesting.

Ken Diewert · October 18th, 2006, 11:09 PM

I bought a DVD copy of Syd Fields 'Screewriting workshop' it's really pretty good. I think I found a link to it while checking out Final Draft.

Emre Safak · October 20th, 2006, 04:46 PM

Margaret Mehring's The Screenplay looks very interesting; anybody read it?

Neboysha Nenadich · October 26th, 2006, 03:56 PM

I once recommended this one here, and I will do it again... :)

Writing the Character-Centered Screenplay
by Andrew Horton

nice, inspiring and interesting book. different approach than the other "mainstream" screenwriting books, but very useful reading...

October 2nd, 2006, 12:21 AM	#1
Hal Wolin Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bellmore NY Posts: 27	Script Writing Books-Suggestions So most of the suggestions from everyone on books for Lighting, Editing, and everything have been pretty good. I'm looking for a suggestion or two on books that would help me improve the flow and rhythm of my dialogue. Any suggestions?

October 3rd, 2006, 08:03 PM	#7
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	No one here has really addressed the initial question which is what resources (books, etc) one could look at for dialogue. I'd like to know as well. My only answer is to read similar scripts in the same genre. Also to make sure that dialogue furthers the story, not just is there for the sake of wit. I cannot count the number of amateur screenplays I've read that take too much from Tarantino. The royale with cheese segment is cited too often. Or the Like a Virgin discussion from Reservoir Dogs. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

October 4th, 2006, 08:15 AM	#10
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	My most valuable experience at the Praxis workshops was when a bunch of actors read through my entire feature. You get a real feel not only for the dialogue but also for pracing. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

October 15th, 2006, 11:47 PM	#12
Michael Gilbert Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 47	Books we use in school. They dont really deal with good dialogue writing techniques, the best teacher for that is observation but as far as flow and structure, I refer to Syd Field's Screenplay: The foundations of Screenplay and also The Screenwritings Bible by David Trottier. Both of these books are very helpful. Both books refer to Films both classic and newly filmed to explain their ideas and clarify their points. You combine these books with some creative writing guides and books. a little creativity on your own part, and they are very powerful tools in writing screenplays that are properly formatted and very interesting.

October 18th, 2006, 11:09 PM	#13
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	I bought a DVD copy of Syd Fields 'Screewriting workshop' it's really pretty good. I think I found a link to it while checking out Final Draft. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

October 2nd, 2006, 08:28 AM	#2
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	I could be wrong on the spelling of his last name... but anything by William Frouge... actually I'm... but hopefully that's close enough...

October 2nd, 2006, 08:46 AM	#3
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	While I have no specific recommendations, I generally like the offerings of Michael Wiese press.

October 3rd, 2006, 05:38 PM	#4
John Kang Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 219	How about finding a movie you like and getting the script from the bookstore? The Art section at your local Barnes or Borders should have several movie scripts you can browse through. I think it's the best way to see how the director intended to shoot the scene based upon the script. If you're talking about formatting, try the demo scriptwriting programs like Final Draft, etc... and see if you like it.

October 3rd, 2006, 06:07 PM	#5
Scott Tebeau Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: portland oregon Posts: 73	Hal, This is just one persons opinion. I’ve read stacks of screenwriting books and without fail the majority of them are loaded with device that offer nothing more then tricks and pretense that will get you no closer to learning how to write. To learn to write means you have to dedicate yourself to subjects you understand and write about them with honesty and forget about what is cool. People may have different opinions about approach but I think that understanding the basics of story comes first. I would say you might want to take a look at "Story" by Robert McKee. It is caulked full of theory and complicated stuff, but will plant some good seeds even in your first pass at it. I have been returning to it for years and new things keep presenting themselves as I catch up with the text.

October 3rd, 2006, 07:30 PM	#6
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Lots of good books on format...any of them are alright. My favorite two books on the mechanics of discipline and narrative structure would have to be How to Write a Movie in 21 Days - By Viki King. Nuts and bolts format, good tips for keeping your butt in a chair, and organizing your thoughts. and The Writers Journey - by Christopher Vogler. Excellent examination of the Hero's Journey in Cinematic Storytelling. A 'pocket guide' to Joseph Campbell if you will, outlining archetypes and turning points. Really good stuff. If you could only buy two books... those two would be my recommendations. My advice to first time writers. "Don't get it right... get it written." The best advice ever given to me. Read up on the format... only takes a few minutes. And put your butt in a chair and WRITE. It's all about B.T.U's. Butt Time Units. Keep writing till you're done. THEN Rewrite Rewrite Rewrite and Rewrite again. That's when the books come in handy. Something is not clicking in the script? Check with the books for possible solutions. BUT GET TO THE END. I've known too many scripts that languish when they get to a hard spot... cause people keep trying to 'fix' a work in progress. DON'T GET IT RIGHT - GET IT WRITTEN. Then Rewrite. 'nuff said.

October 3rd, 2006, 10:37 PM	#8
Jeff Cottrone Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 100	I've read probably 30 screenwriting books and none of them dealt with how to write dialogue. The three best things you can do are: pay a heightened attention to every person you come across in your life (what do they talk about, what are their speech rhythms, what is their vocabulary level, how much swearing do they do...); study other scripts; and write write write. The more attention you put on it the deeper you will penetrate into how to duplicate it on paper. No one can teach you that. I'd say of the 30 books I read only 5 or so were worthwhile. And of those five, at this moment, I only remember two of them, and not because they were just mentioned above: Story by Robert McKee is the most insightful book I ever read, but it is complex; and The Writer's Journey by Vogler is also a great book. Oh, just remembered one more: it's a combination seminar with Vogler and Michael Hauge. While Vogler focuses on the inner journey of the main character, Hauge focuses on the outer, physical plot that is the context for that journey. It's called The Hero's Two Journey's. Get those three things, go over and over them as you write everyday until your eyes bleed, then in five years you'll know what you're doing. Good luck.

October 4th, 2006, 01:35 AM	#9
Jay Kavi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 243	I personally like "making a good script great" I forgot the author. I've found no books I've read are really good for dialog. I agree that before you can get a good feeling for dialog you need to concentrate on listening, and write what you hear and not what you think. but definitely write! I usually write very little dialog to start, do a read through with some friends, then work on it with the actors (they're gonna disagree with it anyway). Hope that helps

October 4th, 2006, 08:46 AM	#11
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	Good Script Great is by Linda Seiger... I believe... I like the Frogue books the best... most of the books are just different repeats or their take on the format... What I don't like is the guys who teach... well this or that has got to happen on page 3 and this or that has got to happen on page 10... Yes there are rules... but let the rules help you... so what if the thing that's suppose to happen on page 10 and it comes out on page 11... for example if your film is a comedy and the reader is laughing his or her ass off...they won't reject the script because "well gee the thing that was suppose to happen on page 10 happen on page 11... so I guess I can't buy the script because it didn't fit these writing guru's ideas... even though its the funnest thing I ever read"... And basically what Richard said...

October 20th, 2006, 04:46 PM	#14
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	Margaret Mehring's The Screenplay looks very interesting; anybody read it?

October 26th, 2006, 03:56 PM	#15
Neboysha Nenadich Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: serbia Posts: 50	I once recommended this one here, and I will do it again... :) Writing the Character-Centered Screenplay by Andrew Horton nice, inspiring and interesting book. different approach than the other "mainstream" screenwriting books, but very useful reading...