matte box & filters

David Stone · February 8th, 2005, 07:26 PM

Can anyone recommend a good book or article on the use of a matte box and filters. For example, when it is best to use one, under what circumstances, and examples of filters used in different situations.

Rob Lohman · February 9th, 2005, 06:31 AM

I've moved your question to our read/book forum, since it doesn't
really belong in the support forum (for tripods, dollies etc.)

The most often used filters seem to be:

- ND filter (to cut the amount of light hitting the lens, like sunshades for your camera), primarely used in daylight (sun). This filter is also available as a graduated filter (grad ND) so you can just make the sky darker (to not blow it out) for example, most useful in rotatable fashion

- UV filter, to protect the lens from damage

- Polarizer filter: to enhance or remove (unwanted) reflections etc.

A (larger) mattebox can sometimes hold filters (3x3 or 4x4 seems to
be common), some matteboxes can hold more than others. Some
include rotating filters (needed if you are going to use polarizer
filter).

However, most people here go with screwon filters (on the lens)
since they are much less expensive, the polarizer will be able to
rotate directly in that case.

The larger 3x3 and 4x4 filters are just sheets of "glass" so to speak.

The mattebox is also used to block light and flairs coming into the
lens (as much as possible) and is usually used with french flags
(the barndoors on some matteboxes) to futher block such issues.

For example:

http://www.zinolab.com/fotos/mattebox.jpg

This looks like a mattebox that can shrink and extend (notice the
folds), has a rotatable filter holder on the back (where the disc +
pointy thing extend near the mic) and one french flag up top. Also
has some rods and grips below it to support the whole thing.

http://www.saferseas.com/vsd/eye/Chr...w-MatteBox.jpg

More professional system. You can see 3 french flags here.

http://www.sei8404.com/img/ac/01p-ma....6+varicam.jpg

Professional mattebox (look at how you can change the size of
the french flags as well) with good look at the filter holders behind
it as well.

p.s. I found all these by using Google's image search function with
the word: mattebox

David Stone · February 9th, 2005, 12:56 PM

Thanks for the information. I also found a pdf file entitled "B+W Filters - filter handbook" online. It explains the theory of filters and has examples of the effect of using a filter.

Rob Lohman · February 10th, 2005, 04:32 AM

Would you happen to have a link to this?

Ramon Georges · February 10th, 2005, 07:42 AM

I think you can find it at the following address:

http://www.schneideroptics.com/filters/filters_for_still_photography/handbook/

Sorry, I don't know how to create a link in the forum.

David Stone · February 10th, 2005, 11:05 AM

Yes, that is the link.

David Stone · February 10th, 2005, 11:12 AM

I also found this discussion on a board from the UK:

http://dialog.theiac.org.uk/cgi-bin/dnewsweb?cmd=article&group=theiac.dialog.general&item=1843&utag=

It indicates that: "Use a very good Matte Box with a French Flag that extends about 7 inches away from the lens, the crappy lens shade that came with your camcorder doesn't count, throw it in the bin. The Matte Box, in my opinion is one of the most underrated accessories you can buy and will improve your footage 50%, once you have read about the correct way to use it, if used incorrectly, you might as well not bother attaching it in the first place.

Second, use a Polorizer filter, not a cheap Hoya one either, you will need
a good quality peice of glass, Formatt make a good one, so do B&W, cost around £100, well worth it, this will saturate your colours and give your sky more depth and 3-D quality, it really brings the clouds away from the blue sky.

Next, and most importantly "Exposure" don't use auto, auto is for lazy people who complain that they don't have time to set it manually, if you use auto your footage will ALWAYS be crap. I can adjust manually quicker than any wedding videographer can flick the switch onto auto.

Once you are on manual mode, use an F-stop that is the prime quality setting for your lens, usually about half way i.e. F5.6 to F8, if you go wide, sure you get shallow depth of field, but you loose quality, contrast and saturation, if you stop down, you get everything in focus, but the same loss of quality in contrast and saturation.

Once you have your mid-point (prime quality) F-stop, you should use ND filters
to set the exposure, not the shutter speed or gain level, set your exposure
about 1 F stop under, this will give you deep colour saturation and it's
easy to bring the levels up a tad in post, but you can never bring them down."

February 8th, 2005, 07:26 PM	#1
David Stone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 40	matte box & filters - articles/recommendations Can anyone recommend a good book or article on the use of a matte box and filters. For example, when it is best to use one, under what circumstances, and examples of filters used in different situations.

February 9th, 2005, 06:31 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I've moved your question to our read/book forum, since it doesn't really belong in the support forum (for tripods, dollies etc.) The most often used filters seem to be: - ND filter (to cut the amount of light hitting the lens, like sunshades for your camera), primarely used in daylight (sun). This filter is also available as a graduated filter (grad ND) so you can just make the sky darker (to not blow it out) for example, most useful in rotatable fashion - UV filter, to protect the lens from damage - Polarizer filter: to enhance or remove (unwanted) reflections etc. A (larger) mattebox can sometimes hold filters (3x3 or 4x4 seems to be common), some matteboxes can hold more than others. Some include rotating filters (needed if you are going to use polarizer filter). However, most people here go with screwon filters (on the lens) since they are much less expensive, the polarizer will be able to rotate directly in that case. The larger 3x3 and 4x4 filters are just sheets of "glass" so to speak. The mattebox is also used to block light and flairs coming into the lens (as much as possible) and is usually used with french flags (the barndoors on some matteboxes) to futher block such issues. For example: http://www.zinolab.com/fotos/mattebox.jpg This looks like a mattebox that can shrink and extend (notice the folds), has a rotatable filter holder on the back (where the disc + pointy thing extend near the mic) and one french flag up top. Also has some rods and grips below it to support the whole thing. http://www.saferseas.com/vsd/eye/Chr...w-MatteBox.jpg More professional system. You can see 3 french flags here. http://www.sei8404.com/img/ac/01p-ma....6+varicam.jpg Professional mattebox (look at how you can change the size of the french flags as well) with good look at the filter holders behind it as well. p.s. I found all these by using Google's image search function with the word: mattebox __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 10th, 2005, 04:32 AM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Would you happen to have a link to this? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 9th, 2005, 12:56 PM	#3
David Stone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 40	Thanks for the information. I also found a pdf file entitled "B+W Filters - filter handbook" online. It explains the theory of filters and has examples of the effect of using a filter.

February 10th, 2005, 07:42 AM	#5
Ramon Georges New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 14	I think you can find it at the following address: http://www.schneideroptics.com/filters/filters_for_still_photography/handbook/ Sorry, I don't know how to create a link in the forum.

February 10th, 2005, 11:05 AM	#6
David Stone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 40	Yes, that is the link.

February 10th, 2005, 11:12 AM	#7
David Stone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 40	I also found this discussion on a board from the UK: http://dialog.theiac.org.uk/cgi-bin/dnewsweb?cmd=article&group=theiac.dialog.general&item=1843&utag= It indicates that: "Use a very good Matte Box with a French Flag that extends about 7 inches away from the lens, the crappy lens shade that came with your camcorder doesn't count, throw it in the bin. The Matte Box, in my opinion is one of the most underrated accessories you can buy and will improve your footage 50%, once you have read about the correct way to use it, if used incorrectly, you might as well not bother attaching it in the first place. Second, use a Polorizer filter, not a cheap Hoya one either, you will need a good quality peice of glass, Formatt make a good one, so do B&W, cost around £100, well worth it, this will saturate your colours and give your sky more depth and 3-D quality, it really brings the clouds away from the blue sky. Next, and most importantly "Exposure" don't use auto, auto is for lazy people who complain that they don't have time to set it manually, if you use auto your footage will ALWAYS be crap. I can adjust manually quicker than any wedding videographer can flick the switch onto auto. Once you are on manual mode, use an F-stop that is the prime quality setting for your lens, usually about half way i.e. F5.6 to F8, if you go wide, sure you get shallow depth of field, but you loose quality, contrast and saturation, if you stop down, you get everything in focus, but the same loss of quality in contrast and saturation. Once you have your mid-point (prime quality) F-stop, you should use ND filters to set the exposure, not the shutter speed or gain level, set your exposure about 1 F stop under, this will give you deep colour saturation and it's easy to bring the levels up a tad in post, but you can never bring them down."