Test lighting setup with analog camera at DVinfo.net

Rob Belics · May 7th, 2003, 05:21 PM

How would it compare to a dv camera if you used an analog camera to test the lighting setup on a location beforehand? If it looks good and balanced on the analog's viewfinder are you probably OK, or at least close, on the dv camera?

Charles Papert · May 7th, 2003, 05:23 PM

Depends on the vintage of the camera used...the recording medium won't affect contrast as much as the chips and processing of the individual camera. But chances are very good that if it looks decent on the analog camera, it will look even better on digital.

Bryan Beasleigh · May 7th, 2003, 06:38 PM

That's where a good field monitor would come in handy for someone like me. Even a 13" Toshiba or JVC cheapy would be better than a sharp stick in the eye. I was looking at the toshiba 14" with 400 lines and a flat square tube but the weight is 24 lbs. JVC has a 9" with blue check, overscan and wide mode for under $600. chris ha d posted a link to Panny 7'' that's supposed to be great.

Then again for $100 the Toshiba and JVC have a decent tube.

Mike Rehmus · May 9th, 2003, 10:05 PM

I found a nice used Sony 9" hi-res field monitor that will run off of 12 vdc, NP1B batteries or AC line. They go for around $400 give or take. It came in a Portabrace case so I can hang it on the tripod along with a battery belt and be much more certain that what I want is what I get.

Brian, you were investigating LCD panels a while back. Did you conclude that they weren't for you?

I recently purchased a 17" HD LCD (Samsung) TV for displaying my work to small groups. It has a line doubler that makes the images look really good. However, it's a bit big and it washes out too easily for field monitor use. The 15" version might be OK though if you could construct a viewing hood.

Bryan Beasleigh · May 9th, 2003, 11:03 PM

I got side tracked today while shopping for a matte box. A 9" JVC TM910SU followed me home. I may go back and buy the Kata Momo bag on monday. Monitors can be costly here in canada the little JVC was $1050. That's about the best you can do anywhere up here.

It's got Blue check, underscan and switchable aspect ratio.

Wayne Orr · May 10th, 2003, 02:32 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : How would it compare to a dv camera if you used an analog camera to test the lighting setup on a location beforehand? If it looks good and balanced on the analog's viewfinder are you probably OK, or at least close, on the dv camera? -->>>

Is it just me? I don't get this question. How do you check lighting on the viewfinder of an analog camera? Is Rob talking about a small format camera? I would love some more information so I can make a confusing suggestion.

Charles Papert · May 10th, 2003, 06:55 PM

See, I just went ahead and posted my confusing answer, without realizing that I hadn't read the question properly. I assumed that the analog camera was going to be played back on a monitor and the analysis done there. Thanks, Wayne!

Rob Belics · May 11th, 2003, 08:33 AM

What I'm talking about is: You have a DV camera at one location taping a scene. At a second location you use the analog camera to check/view the lighting to see contrast, shadow detail, etc. to make sure everything looks OK before the DV camera arrives later.

The question is, how close will the analog camera's view look to the DV's view when it arrives?

Michael Morlan · May 17th, 2003, 10:15 PM

Rob,

Coming from lighting for film, I would submit that you shouldn't use another camera to set lighting for your main camera -- unless you have tested and documented everything about each including color and contrast response. It might be easier to light with a meter (or your eyes when you've done it a few times.)

When getting to know my camera I perform a few tests and thoroughly document its response to color and contrast - creating exposure and colorimetry charts that I can refer to later. I'll document the equivalent exposure index of the camera. Once I've got the technology out of the way, I'll judge its picture artistically, seeing how it responds in different lighting environments and when I push its limits. I'll eyeball those same environments and build a visual memory for how a space looks to my eye and the camera.

On the set, I'll pick my angles by eye or director's viewfinder. Then I use my cine spot/incident meters when lighting a set. That'll get me most of the way. (It's also safer since the fragile and expensive camera is not in the way when moving a bunch of lights around.

Then I bring in the camera and finish with a monitor and/or scope.

Here's a couple of pages I keep for my GY-DV500 camera. They show the results of my initial tests of the camera along with an interesting, free substitute technique for those "warm cards" that have arrived on the market recently.

http://www.michael-morlan.net/projects/dv500/dv500_exposure_tests.htm

http://www.michael-morlan.net/projects/dv500/dv500_color_balancing_with_gels.htm

Hope this helps,

Michael

May 7th, 2003, 05:21 PM	#1
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	Test lighting setup with analog camera How would it compare to a dv camera if you used an analog camera to test the lighting setup on a location beforehand? If it looks good and balanced on the analog's viewfinder are you probably OK, or at least close, on the dv camera?

May 7th, 2003, 05:23 PM	#2
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Depends on the vintage of the camera used...the recording medium won't affect contrast as much as the chips and processing of the individual camera. But chances are very good that if it looks decent on the analog camera, it will look even better on digital. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

May 9th, 2003, 10:05 PM	#4
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I found a nice used Sony 9" hi-res field monitor that will run off of 12 vdc, NP1B batteries or AC line. They go for around $400 give or take. It came in a Portabrace case so I can hang it on the tripod along with a battery belt and be much more certain that what I want is what I get. Brian, you were investigating LCD panels a while back. Did you conclude that they weren't for you? I recently purchased a 17" HD LCD (Samsung) TV for displaying my work to small groups. It has a line doubler that makes the images look really good. However, it's a bit big and it washes out too easily for field monitor use. The 15" version might be OK though if you could construct a viewing hood. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

May 10th, 2003, 02:32 PM	#6
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Re: Test lighting setup with analog camera <<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : How would it compare to a dv camera if you used an analog camera to test the lighting setup on a location beforehand? If it looks good and balanced on the analog's viewfinder are you probably OK, or at least close, on the dv camera? -->>> Is it just me? I don't get this question. How do you check lighting on the viewfinder of an analog camera? Is Rob talking about a small format camera? I would love some more information so I can make a confusing suggestion. __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

May 10th, 2003, 06:55 PM	#7
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	See, I just went ahead and posted my confusing answer, without realizing that I hadn't read the question properly. I assumed that the analog camera was going to be played back on a monitor and the analysis done there. Thanks, Wayne! __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

May 7th, 2003, 06:38 PM	#3
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	That's where a good field monitor would come in handy for someone like me. Even a 13" Toshiba or JVC cheapy would be better than a sharp stick in the eye. I was looking at the toshiba 14" with 400 lines and a flat square tube but the weight is 24 lbs. JVC has a 9" with blue check, overscan and wide mode for under $600. chris ha d posted a link to Panny 7'' that's supposed to be great. Then again for $100 the Toshiba and JVC have a decent tube.

May 9th, 2003, 11:03 PM	#5
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I got side tracked today while shopping for a matte box. A 9" JVC TM910SU followed me home. I may go back and buy the Kata Momo bag on monday. Monitors can be costly here in canada the little JVC was $1050. That's about the best you can do anywhere up here. It's got Blue check, underscan and switchable aspect ratio.

May 11th, 2003, 08:33 AM	#8
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	What I'm talking about is: You have a DV camera at one location taping a scene. At a second location you use the analog camera to check/view the lighting to see contrast, shadow detail, etc. to make sure everything looks OK before the DV camera arrives later. The question is, how close will the analog camera's view look to the DV's view when it arrives?

May 17th, 2003, 10:15 PM	#9
Michael Morlan Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 79	Rob, Coming from lighting for film, I would submit that you shouldn't use another camera to set lighting for your main camera -- unless you have tested and documented everything about each including color and contrast response. It might be easier to light with a meter (or your eyes when you've done it a few times.) When getting to know my camera I perform a few tests and thoroughly document its response to color and contrast - creating exposure and colorimetry charts that I can refer to later. I'll document the equivalent exposure index of the camera. Once I've got the technology out of the way, I'll judge its picture artistically, seeing how it responds in different lighting environments and when I push its limits. I'll eyeball those same environments and build a visual memory for how a space looks to my eye and the camera. On the set, I'll pick my angles by eye or director's viewfinder. Then I use my cine spot/incident meters when lighting a set. That'll get me most of the way. (It's also safer since the fragile and expensive camera is not in the way when moving a bunch of lights around. Then I bring in the camera and finish with a monitor and/or scope. Here's a couple of pages I keep for my GY-DV500 camera. They show the results of my initial tests of the camera along with an interesting, free substitute technique for those "warm cards" that have arrived on the market recently. http://www.michael-morlan.net/projects/dv500/dv500_exposure_tests.htm http://www.michael-morlan.net/projects/dv500/dv500_color_balancing_with_gels.htm Hope this helps, Michael