Article: Future growing dim for incandescent bulbs

Ralph Keyser · May 17th, 2007, 12:47 PM

Well, I guess we can always go back to arclights :-). I've always wanted an excuse for that, and they clearly don't count as incandescents.

Seriously, although there is discussion on this topic, I don't expect a ban on incandescent lamps anytime soon. Even if there is, I expect that Marcus is right about the focus being on household bulbs rather than specialized fixtures. Although it's a big deal to us, the number of quartz halogen lamps for video fixtures sold by an entity like GE is a tiny number.

Richard Andrewski · May 17th, 2007, 04:24 PM

The lumen output of a 575w metal halide is about 43000 (about the equivalent of a 2K instrument). It's really way overkill for that kind of stuff in my opinion. I think people are really going to be surprised at how bright these things are. The 150w test fresnel I have is incredibly bright at 13000 lumens (which is about like a 650w tungsten). The original 150w test par I have is seemingly much brighter though when you look at it. I think the difference is a great special par lens and a much better parabolic reflector than you normally find on a fresnel.

It's hard to fight people's perceptions and what they're accustomed to though. I decided the 150w instrument I offer should be a fresnel because that's what most are used to using in portable situations. I think that's what you'd want to use in most interview situations for back lighting. If you're "fighting the sun" though it's possible the 575w might come in more handy.

I don't have a picture of the 150w fresnel yet because I haven't finalized the fixture. I had a fixture I found and really liked, very much like a 300w arri but it's just a slight bit too small to put the 150w single ended bulb in without major modifications so I'm searching for another suitable fixture, keeping in mind compactness, weight and portability.

The 575w par is in a really attractive package. This is not a cheap and thin pressed aluminum par 64 can mind you. It's a cast aluminum, really tough fixture that can take some punishment. I've included a picture of the prototype unit. There will probably be a regular par lens on this unit in the final one with a choice of some other lenses. The ballast is attached to the yoke on the other side of the unit. I've included a profile picture. The bulb goes in at the back. The entire back piece comes out with the bulb attached. Just replace the bulb, put the socket piece back in and you're ready. Transporting the fixture with the bulb inside appears to be no problem as I've done it several times.

A neat surprise happened yesterday. I had requested a sample 150w single ended bulb from another manufacturer and they sent me a 3000K version with CRI 85. We knew there were these choices available but typically the CRI is really low on those 3000K units. Now we'll have a choice, at least on the 150w model of a tungsten color or daylight as we do on our fluorescent models. People will be pleasantly surprised when they find out they can get an HMI type unit in 3000K also ;-) to match their other lighting.

Richard Andrewski · May 17th, 2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Keyser

Well, I guess we can always go back to arclights :-). I've always wanted an excuse for that, and they clearly don't count as incandescents.

Seriously, although there is discussion on this topic, I don't expect a ban on incandescent lamps anytime soon. Even if there is, I expect that Marcus is right about the focus being on household bulbs rather than specialized fixtures. Although it's a big deal to us, the number of quartz halogen lamps for video fixtures sold by an entity like GE is a tiny number.

When I was in college in Waco, I had a part time job in the Baylor campus auditorium. We had two large arclight spots. The entire team took turns on who took what post during a show. I always hated running those spots. The smell, the heat, changing the rods, being up high where the girls couldn't see us ;-), etc. I for one don't miss that at all. Of course, all the spots now use these metal halide type bulbs--pretty much the same one's I'll be using in the 575w and 1200w fixtures.

Mark OConnell · May 17th, 2007, 05:15 PM

"Now we'll have a choice, at least on the 150w model of a tungsten color or daylight as we do on our fluorescent models. People will be pleasantly surprised when they find out they can get an HMI type unit in 3000K also ;-) to match their other lighting."

That sounds great!

" I had a fixture I found and really liked, very much like a 300w arri but it's just a slight bit too small to put the 150w single ended bulb in .."

If the 150 puts out as much light as a 650 tungsten maybe you should use those fixtures for a 100w or 75w, something that would approximate a 250 or 300w tungsten.

The picture of the par looks great, very slick. Can't wait to check out the fresnels.

Richard Andrewski · May 17th, 2007, 05:27 PM

Hi Mark,

Yes I thought about 70w or 100w bulbs too. It's just a question of getting too scattered out in product offerings. There are really infinite choices I could make available and if it wasn't for differences in the sockets necessary for different size bulbs and ballast wattage outputs, we could have total choice of wattage in all the fixtures. I can definitely visualize a super small fresnel with a 70w bulb in it at some point. The 70w G12 single ended bulb puts out about 5600 lumens but unfortunately it is the same exact size as a 150w. Yes, it means they can be used interchangeably with the right ballast choices too but because the size is the same it doesn't mean you can necessarily put the 70w in a smaller package than you can the 150w if you see the dilemma. But there may be other, more compact bulbs out there that I haven't discovered yet.

Marcus Marchesseault · May 18th, 2007, 01:37 AM

Heck, look at the market and let it make your decisions. Don't let us kooks decide everything. What is the most popular type of portable light? I think everyone would agree that the Arri 650 is pretty much ubiquitous. It sounds like you are on the right track with the 150W MH being a small (but not micro) fresnel fixture. It also seems that the larger 575W MH is a good idea because it will be powerful enough to fight solar backlight but won't blow a circuit breaker. If people need more light than that, they cal always buy two. :)

Boyd Ostroff · May 18th, 2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Andrewski

I always hated running those spots. The smell, the heat, changing the rods, being up high where the girls couldn't see us ;-), etc. I for one don't miss that at all.

One of the big problems with carbon arc lights is that they emit carbon monoxide, and therefore need to be in an area with good ventillation. I always found this a little scary, since fire codes generally mandated them to be in enclosed booths. A ventillation system failure could be bad...

Richard Andrewski · May 18th, 2007, 07:32 AM

Yes I know about this now but we didn't know about that back then. It got seriously stuffy in that room and now I know why. Before I thought it was just the heat. Carbon arc is one technology I don't miss...

Marcus Marchesseault · June 10th, 2007, 11:36 AM

Interesting article comparing CFL to incandescent:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...99.html?page=1

Richard Andrewski · June 10th, 2007, 03:44 PM

Good article Marcus. Interesting that the Home Depot N:Vision which I've been recommending for some time got an "A" in the comparison test so it ranks up there as the highest in quality rating across the board. No A+ on any bulb yet though.

Steve Winters · June 11th, 2007, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

No wading through personal rants, politics, platform wars, etc. to find what you're looking for.

I don't normally post here but I've been lurking for a long time. That comment is EXACTLY why I love this site - this is the only place I can come for advice without having to suffer through rants and "flames". Great job Admins/Moderators!

Steve Winters

Gints Klimanis · July 5th, 2007, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Andrewski

The thing I found was, after I got used to 5500K, I grew to like it very well and it get's to the point that you're not even really aware of it after a while. Most do get to feel it's a very natural light after time, and I agree about being more pleasing too.

I love the look of 5500K, but that may be due to my dorkiness. My brother, a graphic designer, rebels against the 5500K of the CFL's I installed in every fixture, claiming they give a laboratory look. So, I secretly (like Folgers coffee at Tavern on the Green) switched his room bulbs from incandescent to warm CFLs. He didn't even notice for a couple of weeks until I spilled the beans.

Richard Andrewski · July 5th, 2007, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis

I love the look of 5500K, but that may be due to my dorkiness. My brother, a graphic designer, rebels against the 5500K of the CFL's I installed in every fixture, claiming they give a laboratory look. So, I secretly (like Folgers coffee at Tavern on the Green) switched his room bulbs from incandescent to warm CFLs. He didn't even notice for a couple of weeks until I spilled the beans.

It seems to be mostly an emotional issue to most people. I may not have liked 5500K all that much but after I started using it for a while I decided I liked it everywhere and now feel its totally natural.

May 17th, 2007, 04:24 PM	#32
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	The lumen output of a 575w metal halide is about 43000 (about the equivalent of a 2K instrument). It's really way overkill for that kind of stuff in my opinion. I think people are really going to be surprised at how bright these things are. The 150w test fresnel I have is incredibly bright at 13000 lumens (which is about like a 650w tungsten). The original 150w test par I have is seemingly much brighter though when you look at it. I think the difference is a great special par lens and a much better parabolic reflector than you normally find on a fresnel. It's hard to fight people's perceptions and what they're accustomed to though. I decided the 150w instrument I offer should be a fresnel because that's what most are used to using in portable situations. I think that's what you'd want to use in most interview situations for back lighting. If you're "fighting the sun" though it's possible the 575w might come in more handy. I don't have a picture of the 150w fresnel yet because I haven't finalized the fixture. I had a fixture I found and really liked, very much like a 300w arri but it's just a slight bit too small to put the 150w single ended bulb in without major modifications so I'm searching for another suitable fixture, keeping in mind compactness, weight and portability. The 575w par is in a really attractive package. This is not a cheap and thin pressed aluminum par 64 can mind you. It's a cast aluminum, really tough fixture that can take some punishment. I've included a picture of the prototype unit. There will probably be a regular par lens on this unit in the final one with a choice of some other lenses. The ballast is attached to the yoke on the other side of the unit. I've included a profile picture. The bulb goes in at the back. The entire back piece comes out with the bulb attached. Just replace the bulb, put the socket piece back in and you're ready. Transporting the fixture with the bulb inside appears to be no problem as I've done it several times. A neat surprise happened yesterday. I had requested a sample 150w single ended bulb from another manufacturer and they sent me a 3000K version with CRI 85. We knew there were these choices available but typically the CRI is really low on those 3000K units. Now we'll have a choice, at least on the 150w model of a tungsten color or daylight as we do on our fluorescent models. People will be pleasantly surprised when they find out they can get an HMI type unit in 3000K also ;-) to match their other lighting. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz

May 17th, 2007, 05:27 PM	#35
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	Hi Mark, Yes I thought about 70w or 100w bulbs too. It's just a question of getting too scattered out in product offerings. There are really infinite choices I could make available and if it wasn't for differences in the sockets necessary for different size bulbs and ballast wattage outputs, we could have total choice of wattage in all the fixtures. I can definitely visualize a super small fresnel with a 70w bulb in it at some point. The 70w G12 single ended bulb puts out about 5600 lumens but unfortunately it is the same exact size as a 150w. Yes, it means they can be used interchangeably with the right ballast choices too but because the size is the same it doesn't mean you can necessarily put the 70w in a smaller package than you can the 150w if you see the dilemma. But there may be other, more compact bulbs out there that I haven't discovered yet. __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz

May 18th, 2007, 07:32 AM	#38
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	Yes I know about this now but we didn't know about that back then. It got seriously stuffy in that room and now I know why. Before I thought it was just the heat. Carbon arc is one technology I don't miss... __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz

June 10th, 2007, 03:44 PM	#40
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	Good article Marcus. Interesting that the Home Depot N:Vision which I've been recommending for some time got an "A" in the comparison test so it ranks up there as the highest in quality rating across the board. No A+ on any bulb yet though. __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz

May 17th, 2007, 12:47 PM	#31
Ralph Keyser Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 287	Well, I guess we can always go back to arclights :-). I've always wanted an excuse for that, and they clearly don't count as incandescents. Seriously, although there is discussion on this topic, I don't expect a ban on incandescent lamps anytime soon. Even if there is, I expect that Marcus is right about the focus being on household bulbs rather than specialized fixtures. Although it's a big deal to us, the number of quartz halogen lamps for video fixtures sold by an entity like GE is a tiny number.

May 17th, 2007, 05:15 PM	#34
Mark OConnell Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 420	"Now we'll have a choice, at least on the 150w model of a tungsten color or daylight as we do on our fluorescent models. People will be pleasantly surprised when they find out they can get an HMI type unit in 3000K also ;-) to match their other lighting." That sounds great! " I had a fixture I found and really liked, very much like a 300w arri but it's just a slight bit too small to put the 150w single ended bulb in .." If the 150 puts out as much light as a 650 tungsten maybe you should use those fixtures for a 100w or 75w, something that would approximate a 250 or 300w tungsten. The picture of the par looks great, very slick. Can't wait to check out the fresnels.

May 18th, 2007, 01:37 AM	#36
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Heck, look at the market and let it make your decisions. Don't let us kooks decide everything. What is the most popular type of portable light? I think everyone would agree that the Arri 650 is pretty much ubiquitous. It sounds like you are on the right track with the 150W MH being a small (but not micro) fresnel fixture. It also seems that the larger 575W MH is a good idea because it will be powerful enough to fight solar backlight but won't blow a circuit breaker. If people need more light than that, they cal always buy two. :)

June 10th, 2007, 11:36 AM	#39
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Interesting article comparing CFL to incandescent: http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...99.html?page=1