Backpack lighting - budgeting space & $$

Kevin Randolph · January 4th, 2007, 08:49 AM

If you've got the time and energy to do it, I'm always interested in seeing other people's work. If you have any still shots of the setup in use, that would be great too.

Luke McMillian · January 5th, 2007, 01:00 AM

Jaron,

You sold me on that set up! I've been looking for a small light kit for a while, and that is genius using the power of the tota, and then buying a photoflex softbox material, and saving the $$. My question is what wattages are you talking about with these lights,? I never know what's enough or too little. I was looking at a 250 watt pro light, and a 300 watt tota, is that too small?I'm guessing you were talking about 1000 or 500 watts for the tota, and what about the omni? Also what do you think about the pro light in replace of the omni, is 250 watts enough, or is the 500 watt model do me better?

thanks so much

Luke

Luke McMillian · January 5th, 2007, 01:04 AM

Jaron,

You sold me on that set up! I've been looking for a small light kit for a while, and that is genius using the power of the tota, and then buying a photoflex softbox material, and saving the $$. My question is what wattages are you talking about with these lights,? I never know what's enough or too little. I was looking at a 250 watt pro light, and a 300 watt tota, is that too small?I'm guessing you were talking about 1000 or 500 watts for the tota, and what about the omni? Also what do you think about the pro light in replace of the omni, is 250 watts enough, or is the 500 watt model do me better?

thanks so much

Luke

Jaron Berman · January 5th, 2007, 11:37 AM

For portable, I would go small and use inverse-square to my advantage. The 250 watt pro lights work fine as back/kick lights. If it's not bright enough, bring it closer to the subject. And with the tota, I just have a box of 750 watt lamps. plenty bright...in fact I usually dim them down to warm them up a bit and drop the levels. You may be right in carrying some 300 watt lamps for the tota, but dont forget the 750's - they can save your butt if you need to bring up the levels in a space with high ceilings.

Softboxes work because the light is large in comparison to the subject. To make it softest, bring it as close as you can to the subject while staying out of frame. Generally, this is pretty close, so you'll have to back off the light a bit - the totas are pretty punchy. But again - use inverse-quare to your advantage - get the lights nice and close and you won't need a whole lot of power at all.

Luke McMillian · January 6th, 2007, 12:30 AM

Jaron,

I will be lighting mostly small interiors for short films. I thought you could buy the tota in different wattages, my mistake. So every tota light can handle 750 watts? would you recomend then always have the 750 in there, i will most always be using it as a softbox, or with the shoot through umbrella. As far as my other light goes, do you think the omni, or the prolight would be a better bet? they both seem to be focusable. the prolight seems pretty excellent to me with the prismatic glass and fresnel like shadow quality it advertises on the lowel site. Not sure what to go for. I'm so close to a light kit, thanks so much thus far!

Luke

Jaron Berman · January 6th, 2007, 11:06 AM

It can't hurt to have different wattage lamps. Sometime you'll find yourself in a position where you need the light in exactly THAT spot, with that exact color temperature, but less output... so you pop in a smaller lamp. Otherwise yes, I usually just roll with the 750 in the Tota, and dim it because I usually want the warmer color.

As for the Pro vs. the omni - whichever you think makes you more versatile. If you like the shadow quality of the prolight, by all means go for it. You can use hard lights as key, and fill with very low level soft light. Basically, any light that can serve more than one purpose is a good light for a portable kit. Mind you, this particular thread had in mind that challenge - a backpack kit for not a whole ton of money. So for quick and light, if you think the pro can be used more efficiently than the omni, (which I personally do), then you can justify it. I personally have a couple of the DP lights, and besides the output (1000 watt), I don't particularly like those lights. When its all said and done, they are large and not all that controllable. The omnis are smaller versions of the DP's, so I'd imagine they behave similarly. The pro's are great little guys, less control than a true fresnel, but you're also paying a LOT less for a fair amount of wattage, and they're tiny!

Seth Bloombaum · January 6th, 2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke McMillian

...As far as my other light goes, do you think the omni, or the prolight would be a better bet? they both seem to be focusable. the prolight seems pretty excellent to me with the prismatic glass and fresnel like shadow quality it advertises on the lowel site...

Having lit interviews both with pro and omni and other lights, I feel they're pretty different instruments. The beam spread data available at lowel.coim makes them look pretty similar, until you look at the actual foot-candles available at those various distances in the spot and flood positions.

Although almost same beam spread on paper, when used with other lights, the pro is effectively a much narrower beam. For example, if you have a tota providing some front light, you'll be hard pressed to backlight two people with a single pro, but fine for backlighting one.

Similar for front-lighting. Look at the foot-candles delivered, think about lighting ratios ranging from 1:4 to 1:2 and you'll realize that the pro has to come quite close to provide fill or whatever... which makes it, again, a narrow instrument.

Having said all that, the pro is a great little instrument. It's small, light, very controllable, and puts out nicer/softer/evener/more fresnel-like light. It just doesn't put out a lot of it.

Dealing with that might mean lamping down other instruments, which can be a fine approach for modern pro-sumer camcorders. I've not had experience of a tota in a softbox to know whether a 350w lamp brings it into balance with a pro, I use a rifa-55 instead, which I like a lot, because it is simple, light and fast and only has two pieces plus the cord.

The omni puts out much more (3x) light, and is better matched for intensity (out of the box with the supplied lamp) to a tota. This thread started off as "lights in a backpack", my choice would be pro, lamp down the other instruments as needed.

Mark Sasahara · January 7th, 2007, 12:30 AM

Susan,

Having a couple of mirrors, larger hand mirrors, or folding ones can be great for a kicker/hair light. You walk right by them, every time you go to the beauty section of the druggist. You just need a clamp, or mount of some kind to hold and articulate them.

With the mirrors/reflectors, you can get piece of diffusion and cover the reflector, lowering the intensity of the bounce. Remember the light is getting diffused twice, before and after it bounces off of the reflective surface. So, a lighter diff, such as frost, or opal, will work well.

You might also consider a couple of small cheapo camera lights. These can be run off a battery and can be used anywhere. Just be sure that the light you're using doesn't kill the battery in the middle of the shot, or slowly run out of steam. Then, the shot, or hairlight, etc gets darker as the shoot wears on. If you stick with a 20W, or 35W light, you can use a smaller battery for a longer time. Canon makes a light that will use the XL2 battery. Make sure you have extra batts for both the camera and the light. Just be sure that you don't run out of camera power.

The Tota light and Chimera/Photoflex softbox folds up very small and will fit in a backpack, just be sure they're cool before packing, especially the metal speed ring. A holey back pack will make you curse like the devil.

Lowel and PIC make very compact stands that will fit inside the pack, or lash them, vertically outside.

Jaron Berman · January 7th, 2007, 03:51 PM

Let me add one thing - Mark's the man, great guy to work with and has a wealth of knowledge. Mirrors? Very clever!

Mark Sasahara · January 7th, 2007, 04:24 PM

Aww, gee. *looks at floor and shuffles his feet*

Thanks Jaron. (Check's in the mail) You are a pleasure to work with and I admire your Steadiskillz :~). Looking forward to working together again.

January 4th, 2007, 08:49 AM	#16
Kevin Randolph Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 423	If you've got the time and energy to do it, I'm always interested in seeing other people's work. If you have any still shots of the setup in use, that would be great too. __________________ "... the drama is on your doorstep..." - John Grierson www.grvideo.net

January 7th, 2007, 12:30 AM	#23
Mark Sasahara Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 649	Susan, Having a couple of mirrors, larger hand mirrors, or folding ones can be great for a kicker/hair light. You walk right by them, every time you go to the beauty section of the druggist. You just need a clamp, or mount of some kind to hold and articulate them. With the mirrors/reflectors, you can get piece of diffusion and cover the reflector, lowering the intensity of the bounce. Remember the light is getting diffused twice, before and after it bounces off of the reflective surface. So, a lighter diff, such as frost, or opal, will work well. You might also consider a couple of small cheapo camera lights. These can be run off a battery and can be used anywhere. Just be sure that the light you're using doesn't kill the battery in the middle of the shot, or slowly run out of steam. Then, the shot, or hairlight, etc gets darker as the shoot wears on. If you stick with a 20W, or 35W light, you can use a smaller battery for a longer time. Canon makes a light that will use the XL2 battery. Make sure you have extra batts for both the camera and the light. Just be sure that you don't run out of camera power. The Tota light and Chimera/Photoflex softbox folds up very small and will fit in a backpack, just be sure they're cool before packing, especially the metal speed ring. A holey back pack will make you curse like the devil. Lowel and PIC make very compact stands that will fit inside the pack, or lash them, vertically outside. __________________ Mark Sasahara Director of Photography

January 7th, 2007, 04:24 PM	#25
Mark Sasahara Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 649	Aww, gee. looks at floor and shuffles his feet Thanks Jaron. (Check's in the mail) You are a pleasure to work with and I admire your Steadiskillz :~). Looking forward to working together again. __________________ Mark Sasahara Director of Photography

January 5th, 2007, 01:00 AM	#17
Luke McMillian Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 62	Jaron, You sold me on that set up! I've been looking for a small light kit for a while, and that is genius using the power of the tota, and then buying a photoflex softbox material, and saving the $$. My question is what wattages are you talking about with these lights,? I never know what's enough or too little. I was looking at a 250 watt pro light, and a 300 watt tota, is that too small?I'm guessing you were talking about 1000 or 500 watts for the tota, and what about the omni? Also what do you think about the pro light in replace of the omni, is 250 watts enough, or is the 500 watt model do me better? thanks so much Luke

January 5th, 2007, 01:04 AM	#18
Luke McMillian Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 62	Jaron, You sold me on that set up! I've been looking for a small light kit for a while, and that is genius using the power of the tota, and then buying a photoflex softbox material, and saving the $$. My question is what wattages are you talking about with these lights,? I never know what's enough or too little. I was looking at a 250 watt pro light, and a 300 watt tota, is that too small?I'm guessing you were talking about 1000 or 500 watts for the tota, and what about the omni? Also what do you think about the pro light in replace of the omni, is 250 watts enough, or is the 500 watt model do me better? thanks so much Luke

January 5th, 2007, 11:37 AM	#19
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	For portable, I would go small and use inverse-square to my advantage. The 250 watt pro lights work fine as back/kick lights. If it's not bright enough, bring it closer to the subject. And with the tota, I just have a box of 750 watt lamps. plenty bright...in fact I usually dim them down to warm them up a bit and drop the levels. You may be right in carrying some 300 watt lamps for the tota, but dont forget the 750's - they can save your butt if you need to bring up the levels in a space with high ceilings. Softboxes work because the light is large in comparison to the subject. To make it softest, bring it as close as you can to the subject while staying out of frame. Generally, this is pretty close, so you'll have to back off the light a bit - the totas are pretty punchy. But again - use inverse-quare to your advantage - get the lights nice and close and you won't need a whole lot of power at all.

January 6th, 2007, 12:30 AM	#20
Luke McMillian Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 62	Jaron, I will be lighting mostly small interiors for short films. I thought you could buy the tota in different wattages, my mistake. So every tota light can handle 750 watts? would you recomend then always have the 750 in there, i will most always be using it as a softbox, or with the shoot through umbrella. As far as my other light goes, do you think the omni, or the prolight would be a better bet? they both seem to be focusable. the prolight seems pretty excellent to me with the prismatic glass and fresnel like shadow quality it advertises on the lowel site. Not sure what to go for. I'm so close to a light kit, thanks so much thus far! Luke

January 6th, 2007, 11:06 AM	#21
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	It can't hurt to have different wattage lamps. Sometime you'll find yourself in a position where you need the light in exactly THAT spot, with that exact color temperature, but less output... so you pop in a smaller lamp. Otherwise yes, I usually just roll with the 750 in the Tota, and dim it because I usually want the warmer color. As for the Pro vs. the omni - whichever you think makes you more versatile. If you like the shadow quality of the prolight, by all means go for it. You can use hard lights as key, and fill with very low level soft light. Basically, any light that can serve more than one purpose is a good light for a portable kit. Mind you, this particular thread had in mind that challenge - a backpack kit for not a whole ton of money. So for quick and light, if you think the pro can be used more efficiently than the omni, (which I personally do), then you can justify it. I personally have a couple of the DP lights, and besides the output (1000 watt), I don't particularly like those lights. When its all said and done, they are large and not all that controllable. The omnis are smaller versions of the DP's, so I'd imagine they behave similarly. The pro's are great little guys, less control than a true fresnel, but you're also paying a LOT less for a fair amount of wattage, and they're tiny!

January 7th, 2007, 03:51 PM	#24
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	Let me add one thing - Mark's the man, great guy to work with and has a wealth of knowledge. Mirrors? Very clever!