Where to get high frequency flourescent ballast? (DIY Home made Kino Flo question)

Ari Shomair · September 15th, 2006, 03:30 PM

For me, the enclosure/mounting mechanisms are the "weak link" left in DIY lights - all the stands, electronics & wiring, bulbs, & reflectors are easy to source super cheap .

Jaron Berman · September 15th, 2006, 03:43 PM

no joke. If you come up with something great, please share. Until I figure it out, I'm pretty happy with the stainless enclosures. Not perfect but they work.

Ari Shomair · September 15th, 2006, 04:04 PM

I've contacted some chinese manufactuers about just this question - Basically, If I can gather 1000 orders, I can get whatever I want custom machined by them.

Another option is get someone with mechanical engineering knowledge to get some CAD drawings made up, and have them CNC machines by emachineshop.com or another local machinist.

A final option is to import some Savage brand lights from China - http://www.savagepaper.com/lights.htm (Minimum order: 50 units), and modifing them to use T8 Tubes.

Jaron Berman · September 16th, 2006, 12:20 AM

Well, I happen to have been an ME in a former life. I actually have sketches of the enclosure I will be building, but I don't have a PC, so until I leap that hurdle I can't use emachinshop. Once I DO get a final file done for them, I'll post here to see if anyone else wants the parts. Easier to order in bulk... but either way I will put the files online so anyone can order should they choose.

But... I may have another solution entirely...I'm going to chinatown on monday to investigate so I'll get back about it then. could be good...and relatively inexpensive.

Victor Burdiladze · September 21st, 2006, 06:38 PM

Jaron, Ari,
What would you recommend for stands?
Vic
P.S. It looks like I'll be ordering AH supply soon; thanks for the info guys.

Konrad Haskins · September 24th, 2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Shomair

Are there over-the-counter compact fluorescents which are suitable for video?

I got this URL from Victor Milt's website

http://www.bulbs.com

They have 5000K CF's for cheap.

Dan Brockett · October 3rd, 2006, 09:07 AM

Hi Jason:

I ordered the AHSupply 2x55 watt kits and they have arrived. So far, I am thinking of mounting the reflectors onto a piece of 1/2" birch plywood, then using a Matthews baby plate for a 5/8" spud to put into a regular grip knuckle on a C-stand?

Have you been able to come up with a better solution? I think that my solution will work but I bet you have something a bit more elegant worked up?

Pictures, links or descriptions? I like the yoke that Kino uses on the Divas but not sure where I can source it from. I suppose I could just buy them from Kino but I am not sure how they attach them to the Divas, Pop rivets, screws or ??

I will have to drive over to Film Tools and take a look.

Best,

Dan

Jaron Berman · October 3rd, 2006, 09:54 AM

Somewhat more elegant, much more expensive though. In chinatown, i have a guy weld me stainless steel open-top boxes 23"x18"x2.5" (4x55 watt kits). I bolt

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

onto the back using 1/4"-20 hardware, and the ballasts are pop-riveted to either side right along the centerline. it's a squeeze, but it JUST fits. The steel is 18ga and all the seams are tig welded. Really nice, super durable and actually pretty light. I ended up soldering and shrink-tubing all the wires, just to be 100% bulletproof, and it really cleans up the inside.
I'll try and snap some pics this week.

Oh, and for 2x55's, the box is 23"x9"x2.5"

Dan Brockett · October 3rd, 2006, 02:08 PM

Hi Jason:

Wow, nice find on that Avenger baby plate!

Sounds as if you have some bucks tied up in your fixtures but they sound very well made. Would love to see some pictures.

Are you using anything for barndoors, diffusion or egg crate?

Dan

Dan Brockett · October 3rd, 2006, 06:18 PM

Hi all:

I am working on these Jason lights (I think we should refer to AHSupply lighting kits as 'Jason lights' since we would not have known about them without Jason's help) and I am hoping to use Coroplast, the same type of black corrugated plastic sheeting that Kino Flo uses on the Divas.

Does anyone have an idea of how thick the Coroplast sheeting is on the Divas? I can source it in 2.6mm, 4mm and 6mm thicknesses but I would rather not drive across town to look at a Diva in person to determine how thick the Coroplast is that they use.

I am thinking of Coroplast as a main body shell but still using the Miro reflectors that came with the kit. I don't anticipate the light folding up like a Diva does because there would not be room with the Miro reflectors but I think having the additional throw from the tubes will be worth it. The Coroplast would serve as the body for the lights as well as the mounting bracket and the ballast.

Thoughts on this design idea?

Dan

Joe Carney · October 4th, 2006, 01:28 PM

Just a minor question...
Why do you keep calling Jaron 'Jason'?

Joe Carney · October 4th, 2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Brockett

Hi Jason:

I ordered the AHSupply 2x55 watt kits and they have arrived. So far, I am thinking of mounting the reflectors onto a piece of 1/2" birch plywood, then using a Matthews baby plate for a 5/8" spud to put into a regular grip knuckle on a C-stand?

Have you been able to come up with a better solution? I think that my solution will work but I bet you have something a bit more elegant worked up?

Pictures, links or descriptions? I like the yoke that Kino uses on the Divas but not sure where I can source it from. I suppose I could just buy them from Kino but I am not sure how they attach them to the Divas, Pop rivets, screws or ??

I will have to drive over to Film Tools and take a look.

Best,

Dan

Here are some alternative light stands I've seen at GuitarCenter.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/dj_...tand&x=14&y=12

The American DJ LTS-1 Light Stand supports up to 100 pounds. I've seen that one at the local store and it's pretty stout.

Looks like you could make brackets similar to the Lowel Flou-Tek studio flourescents for it.

Jaron Berman · October 4th, 2006, 03:28 PM

haha, good catch Joe. It's an unusual name.

I chose not to use that plastic because, while it is successful on a number of lights (incl. mole's biax series), I think I'm less than gentle sometimes, and I have broken kinos. The shells get worn easily - hence the reason they sell replacement shells. The problem with using that material, is that you still need to make it rigid enough to support the light and accessories. Mole uses stamped steel end caps and really clever accessory holders riveted to the plastic, but they use thick metal backer-plates so the rivets don't tear out of the plastic. When I weighed it all out, it was lighter and stronger to just use a steel box. The miro reflectors are only 2" tall, so in a box 2.5" deep, it all fits neatly inside. Now, that plastic makes a GREAT barndoor, and mole does exactly that on the biax. I haven't yet ordered barndoors, but I think I'll just buy Lowell's caselite doors and rivet the hinges to my fixtures. They are cheaper than anything I could build.

Someone mentioned that I have a bit of cash tied up in these. yes, it's true. From the outset, I knew it wouldn't be cheap to make them right. But, I think what I have is more comparable to the parabeam than the diva. Sure, the AH ballasts don't dim, but I mentioned a while ago - i've never been happy with how the 2g11 bulbs dim. Output-wise, they SPANK the lowell, kino, or mole fixtures, except the Kino Parabeams (which they're about equal to). If I compare the $200 it costs me to make a 4-tube fixture to the price of a parabeam...I smile. Sure, I spent 200, but it works well, looks right, and it'll survive a hurricane. Anybody here know how to post pics?

Joe Carney · October 4th, 2006, 06:04 PM

Question about output vs power used...
Normally when I buy FL for the home they state rated output ie 60w and power used..ie 15watts which is why they are popular. When I looked at the specs for the GE CinPlus it stated 55watt power, but no other figure. Do these light consume 55w or output 55w and consume less electricity than 55w?

Jaron Berman · October 4th, 2006, 07:21 PM

55w biax lamps are 55 watts, as long as the ballast is driving them at the same current that is rated. kino ballasts over-drive their tubes, so technically they use 55w lamps but drive more power through them.

Lamps are rated by wattage, a measure of power. Strobes for photo are rated in joules (watt-seconds). Either way, it's a measure of power consumption. Light is measured in a number of ways, and lamps are commonly compared in foot-candles (candellas), lux, lumens etc. At home depot, they sometimes have compact fluorescents rated by "equivalent watts", or how much light a 13 watt flo will compare to a standard tungsten bulb. One thing to note is that ballasts and lamps themselves have differing efficiencies between designs and brands. Kino lamps have slightly less output than Osrams, and that's just comparing the physical lamps and not the fixtures. When it comes to lights, reflectors have a lot to do with the overall output, which is why the AH supply kit is so cool - the reflectors are extremely well designed, allowing them to, using the same lamps, project more light than Kino Diva's.

If you're comparing lights, use the actual light output as your comparison, not Watts. Watts come into play when figuring how many you can plug onto a circuit without popping the breaker.

As an interesting note, candellas are a very logical unit of light measurement. A foot-candle is the light made by one candle one foot from the measurement device. If you've ever seen Barry Lyndon, imagine literally calculating exposure by counting candles! I'm sure they used meters, but still, it would have been possible to get the exposure close by counting and measuring.

October 3rd, 2006, 09:07 AM	#22
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Jason? Mounting issues? Hi Jason: I ordered the AHSupply 2x55 watt kits and they have arrived. So far, I am thinking of mounting the reflectors onto a piece of 1/2" birch plywood, then using a Matthews baby plate for a 5/8" spud to put into a regular grip knuckle on a C-stand? Have you been able to come up with a better solution? I think that my solution will work but I bet you have something a bit more elegant worked up? Pictures, links or descriptions? I like the yoke that Kino uses on the Divas but not sure where I can source it from. I suppose I could just buy them from Kino but I am not sure how they attach them to the Divas, Pop rivets, screws or ?? I will have to drive over to Film Tools and take a look. Best, Dan

October 3rd, 2006, 02:08 PM	#24
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Nice! Hi Jason: Wow, nice find on that Avenger baby plate! Sounds as if you have some bucks tied up in your fixtures but they sound very well made. Would love to see some pictures. Are you using anything for barndoors, diffusion or egg crate? Dan

October 3rd, 2006, 06:18 PM	#25
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Coroplast thickness on Divas? Hi all: I am working on these Jason lights (I think we should refer to AHSupply lighting kits as 'Jason lights' since we would not have known about them without Jason's help) and I am hoping to use Coroplast, the same type of black corrugated plastic sheeting that Kino Flo uses on the Divas. Does anyone have an idea of how thick the Coroplast sheeting is on the Divas? I can source it in 2.6mm, 4mm and 6mm thicknesses but I would rather not drive across town to look at a Diva in person to determine how thick the Coroplast is that they use. I am thinking of Coroplast as a main body shell but still using the Miro reflectors that came with the kit. I don't anticipate the light folding up like a Diva does because there would not be room with the Miro reflectors but I think having the additional throw from the tubes will be worth it. The Coroplast would serve as the body for the lights as well as the mounting bracket and the ballast. Thoughts on this design idea? Dan

October 4th, 2006, 01:28 PM	#26
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Just a minor question... Why do you keep calling Jaron 'Jason'? __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

October 4th, 2006, 06:04 PM	#29
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Question about output vs power used... Normally when I buy FL for the home they state rated output ie 60w and power used..ie 15watts which is why they are popular. When I looked at the specs for the GE CinPlus it stated 55watt power, but no other figure. Do these light consume 55w or output 55w and consume less electricity than 55w? __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

September 15th, 2006, 03:30 PM	#16
Ari Shomair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LA, California, USA Posts: 224	For me, the enclosure/mounting mechanisms are the "weak link" left in DIY lights - all the stands, electronics & wiring, bulbs, & reflectors are easy to source super cheap .

September 15th, 2006, 03:43 PM	#17
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	no joke. If you come up with something great, please share. Until I figure it out, I'm pretty happy with the stainless enclosures. Not perfect but they work.

September 15th, 2006, 04:04 PM	#18
Ari Shomair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LA, California, USA Posts: 224	I've contacted some chinese manufactuers about just this question - Basically, If I can gather 1000 orders, I can get whatever I want custom machined by them. Another option is get someone with mechanical engineering knowledge to get some CAD drawings made up, and have them CNC machines by emachineshop.com or another local machinist. A final option is to import some Savage brand lights from China - http://www.savagepaper.com/lights.htm (Minimum order: 50 units), and modifing them to use T8 Tubes.

September 16th, 2006, 12:20 AM	#19
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	Well, I happen to have been an ME in a former life. I actually have sketches of the enclosure I will be building, but I don't have a PC, so until I leap that hurdle I can't use emachinshop. Once I DO get a final file done for them, I'll post here to see if anyone else wants the parts. Easier to order in bulk... but either way I will put the files online so anyone can order should they choose. But... I may have another solution entirely...I'm going to chinatown on monday to investigate so I'll get back about it then. could be good...and relatively inexpensive.

September 21st, 2006, 06:38 PM	#20
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	Jaron, Ari, What would you recommend for stands? Vic P.S. It looks like I'll be ordering AH supply soon; thanks for the info guys.

October 3rd, 2006, 09:54 AM	#23
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	Somewhat more elegant, much more expensive though. In chinatown, i have a guy weld me stainless steel open-top boxes 23"x18"x2.5" (4x55 watt kits). I bolt http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search onto the back using 1/4"-20 hardware, and the ballasts are pop-riveted to either side right along the centerline. it's a squeeze, but it JUST fits. The steel is 18ga and all the seams are tig welded. Really nice, super durable and actually pretty light. I ended up soldering and shrink-tubing all the wires, just to be 100% bulletproof, and it really cleans up the inside. I'll try and snap some pics this week. Oh, and for 2x55's, the box is 23"x9"x2.5"

October 4th, 2006, 03:28 PM	#28
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	haha, good catch Joe. It's an unusual name. I chose not to use that plastic because, while it is successful on a number of lights (incl. mole's biax series), I think I'm less than gentle sometimes, and I have broken kinos. The shells get worn easily - hence the reason they sell replacement shells. The problem with using that material, is that you still need to make it rigid enough to support the light and accessories. Mole uses stamped steel end caps and really clever accessory holders riveted to the plastic, but they use thick metal backer-plates so the rivets don't tear out of the plastic. When I weighed it all out, it was lighter and stronger to just use a steel box. The miro reflectors are only 2" tall, so in a box 2.5" deep, it all fits neatly inside. Now, that plastic makes a GREAT barndoor, and mole does exactly that on the biax. I haven't yet ordered barndoors, but I think I'll just buy Lowell's caselite doors and rivet the hinges to my fixtures. They are cheaper than anything I could build. Someone mentioned that I have a bit of cash tied up in these. yes, it's true. From the outset, I knew it wouldn't be cheap to make them right. But, I think what I have is more comparable to the parabeam than the diva. Sure, the AH ballasts don't dim, but I mentioned a while ago - i've never been happy with how the 2g11 bulbs dim. Output-wise, they SPANK the lowell, kino, or mole fixtures, except the Kino Parabeams (which they're about equal to). If I compare the $200 it costs me to make a 4-tube fixture to the price of a parabeam...I smile. Sure, I spent 200, but it works well, looks right, and it'll survive a hurricane. Anybody here know how to post pics?

October 4th, 2006, 07:21 PM	#30
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	55w biax lamps are 55 watts, as long as the ballast is driving them at the same current that is rated. kino ballasts over-drive their tubes, so technically they use 55w lamps but drive more power through them. Lamps are rated by wattage, a measure of power. Strobes for photo are rated in joules (watt-seconds). Either way, it's a measure of power consumption. Light is measured in a number of ways, and lamps are commonly compared in foot-candles (candellas), lux, lumens etc. At home depot, they sometimes have compact fluorescents rated by "equivalent watts", or how much light a 13 watt flo will compare to a standard tungsten bulb. One thing to note is that ballasts and lamps themselves have differing efficiencies between designs and brands. Kino lamps have slightly less output than Osrams, and that's just comparing the physical lamps and not the fixtures. When it comes to lights, reflectors have a lot to do with the overall output, which is why the AH supply kit is so cool - the reflectors are extremely well designed, allowing them to, using the same lamps, project more light than Kino Diva's. If you're comparing lights, use the actual light output as your comparison, not Watts. Watts come into play when figuring how many you can plug onto a circuit without popping the breaker. As an interesting note, candellas are a very logical unit of light measurement. A foot-candle is the light made by one candle one foot from the measurement device. If you've ever seen Barry Lyndon, imagine literally calculating exposure by counting candles! I'm sure they used meters, but still, it would have been possible to get the exposure close by counting and measuring.