Handheld fluorescent at DVinfo.net

John Locke · February 13th, 2003, 07:12 PM

I was watching a "making of..." for "Hannibal" and saw in one part that they were filling with a handheld fluorescent. It looked like a miniature Lowel Caselight... about 3 or 4 mini long tubes in a small rectangular aluminum casing, with a handle on the bottom.

Anyone know what brand that is?

Ken Tanaka · February 13th, 2003, 07:48 PM

It was probably a Gyoury. Very handy flour. sticks. Very compact. B&H and others sell them.

Mike Rehmus · February 14th, 2003, 08:07 PM

Very nice they are, too.

Has anyone played with the 13 watt Ottlight? My wife uses one for sewing. It is daylight corrected and broad spectrum.

Looking at the Gyoury, I was reminded of the Ottlight and took a look at it. Very similar but in a small table-top clamshell setup. It turns on as the shell is opened and stays in any orientation from nearly closed to fully open in the vertical position.

Looks good just with a quick look with the LCD panel on my PD150. Colors pop, color balance is easy.

This web site http://www.save-on-crafts.com/ottrucolbrsa.html has them for $43. Others cost more but have more power or are built into various stands. Some look like they would be good for illuminating a copy stand.

John Locke · February 14th, 2003, 11:54 PM

Gyoury is a new one on me. Thanks for pointing that out, Ken. Amazingly expensive, aren't they? I think I need to get in the lighting business...cut current retailers prices by 60% and still walk away with a hefty profit.

Mike, thanks also for pointing out the Ottlight.

Rob Lohman · February 16th, 2003, 01:53 PM

John,

Le me know if you need a shop in Holland to sell your lighting
gear, I could use some profits myself :)

Charles Papert · July 4th, 2003, 02:56 PM

Gents:

The gaffer on my current feature is a bigtime Gyoury fan and we have used up to 12 of them at a time on lighting setups. At any time, they might appear as eyelights, facial fill (the lead actor is Bernie Mac and he has a particularly dark complexion, requiring plenty of fill) or in the "chinese lantern" mode for walk-and-talks. I've become very impressed with their versatility and construction, and intend to buy a kit when I finish this show.

As far as the cost, I can only say that they are well-designed and well-made (hand-built, actually). The time factor of R&D combined with the relatively low unit sales of a speciality item like this means the profit margin is far less than it would seem.

For anyone considering fluorescent fixtures and wanting maximum flexibility in configuration, I definitely recommend the Gyoury system.

John Locke · July 4th, 2003, 07:11 PM

Hey Charles,

What is the effective range of, say, one Gyoury wand in a Chinese Lantern as opposed to one of the "kits" (that look like they're made up of two wands)?

I'm just wondering how closely the lamps have to be held to the subject...for instance, are they powerful enough to illuminate a subject in a night outdoor shot when held at a distance of about 6 feet?

Charles Papert · July 4th, 2003, 08:30 PM

Hi John:

They are remarkably bright, but I don't have specific stats on them. However, I'm confident that a single wand in the Chinese lantern would be adequate illumination at 6 ft for DV shooting. You simply couldn't get that level of intensity from an incandescent bulb in a traditional paper lantern, it would be a fire hazard.

The two wands are mounted so that they fill both sides of the lantern (great for 360 degree lighting, such as suspending it over a table) but if you are just shooting one direction, you will get much of the benefit from a single wand. The dimming function is terrific; they hold color temperature and will dim down to approximately 10%.

Charles Papert · September 18th, 2003, 11:44 AM

To correct my previous post, the lantern will hold up to four wands. For a single direction, two will suffice, for 360 degree lighting one would use all four. The ballasts are designed to power two units at a time, so it's best to use them in multiples of two.

Matt Gettemeier · September 19th, 2003, 07:51 AM

Hey Rob and John... are you guys gonna' support me when I start making fluorescents? Okay seriously, I thought all the fluorescents were overpriced also... and to a certain extent, they are, but not as overpriced as your first instinct tells you.

Mole 650w Tweenie $340, with barndoors $395, with bulb $425.
Non-dimming and bulbs last about 200 hours.

Gyoury non-dimming WITH two bulbs included. Daylight OR Tungsten. Oh yeah, and those bulbs last 10,000 HOURS. $545 and barndoors are part of the design. Plus you can remove a wand and stick it on a car visor or in some other tight spot you want softlight to eminate from. Since the bulbs are $42 each you can figure that a complete fixture WITHOUT bulbs is only $461 with barndoors.

That's ONLY $66 dollars more then ONE fresnel... and if you really want to convince yourself the Gyoury is a good deal then PRICE A SPEEDRING AND SOFTBOX FOR THAT FRESNEL... then the Gyoury is HUNDREDS CHEAPER.

There ya' go Charles... tell your buddy at Gyoury that you met some guy on dvinfo with a 160 IQ who can market his product better then anybody else... 'cause those are just a couple quick facts and a damn good argument for Gyoury.

John and Rob... If you get a chance to compare the Kino fixtures with the Gyoury in person then it isn't even close. The Kino fixtures are made from corrugated plastic (polypropylene)... AKA Coroplast... AKA the same material used for YARD SIGNS... albeit in 6 mil as opposed to 4 mil for a yard sign... the Moles will be made from this also.

As soon as I get my final design done I'll find a way to show you guys my home-made jobbies. They are CHEAP, but they are made cheap! If I wanted to sell them I'd still have to get $150 per fixture just to make it worth my while! (My cost is $100 per light without tubes.) And then if you got one you'd say, "this doesn't look as good as a Kino and it SURE doesn't look as good as a Gyoury."... For that $150 you'd have a crappy fixture with a cheap, although flicker-free, electronic ballast... barndoors that you'd have to gaffer tape into place (which takes the seconds that I can spare)... and a positionable mounting stud on the back of a fixture which adds about $55 to the otherwise truly dirt-cheap cost...

To compare this to a Gyoury you need barndoors that hold position which adds another $50-$100... high current electronic ballast at $100 or dimmable ballast which adds $150... shell construction is variable but probably about $150-$200 retail... see the math? A $550 Gyoury light probably costs the Gyoury guys $200-$300 to build... in order to actually stay in business that doesn't leave much margin. You may think that's a good markup but it ISN'T. A $15 pizza costs less then a buck to make and still pizza shops go out of business all the time.

To make your own Gyourys would probably cost you close to $400 each. So the point is that if somebody wanted to they could make some cheap fixtures CHEAPLY... but they would be a CHEAP alternative to the Kino and Gyoury... not a high quality alternative.

But even after that good argument for Gyoury... CHEAP is the route I've chosen... 'cause I wanted to have at least 5 fluorescents at my disposal (no pun intended) and now I have 5 for the cost of one Kino or Gyoury.

John Hartney · September 23rd, 2003, 08:37 PM

Don't forget there are companies in Europe that make fluro kits that aren't marketed here in the states at all... Grigul in Germany makes a kit that is popular in Europe and Asia, but there unknown here in the states...

Similar in design to videssence it seems...

Brian Wells · December 29th, 2005, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Gettemeier

tell your buddy at Gyoury that you met some guy on dvinfo with a 160 IQ who can market his product better then anybody else... 'cause those are just a couple quick facts and a damn good argument for Gyoury.

Good one, Matt. These lights sounded really great, until I realized they doubled the price over the past two years since this thread was alive!

Gyoury's versatility sounded nice, but when I realized OSRAM was still only delivering tubes with a slight green tint (according to Gyoury web site) and the fact that I could buy a Diva 200 and a 9" Mini Flo for the same price as a Gyoury, I figured it was a "no brainer" to go with the Kino's for my year end lighting investment.

Appreciate all the info here; it really helped with my purchase decision...

Thanks guys!

Charles Papert · December 30th, 2005, 12:25 PM

FYI, I haven't had any problems with the Gyoury color rendition--film is much more demanding with the mired shift than video, and have used the Gyoury's successful on film shoots. They actually have a tendency to overcompensate by going slightly magenta when dimmed way down, if anything.

Charles Papert · December 30th, 2005, 12:25 PM

FYI, I haven't had any problems with the Gyoury color rendition--film is much more demanding with the mired shift than video, and have used the Gyoury's successful on film shoots. They actually have a tendency to overcompensate by going slightly magenta when dimmed way down, if anything. But you won't see green in their output on video in any case.

February 13th, 2003, 07:12 PM	#1
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Handheld fluorescent I was watching a "making of..." for "Hannibal" and saw in one part that they were filling with a handheld fluorescent. It looked like a miniature Lowel Caselight... about 3 or 4 mini long tubes in a small rectangular aluminum casing, with a handle on the bottom. Anyone know what brand that is? __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

February 13th, 2003, 07:48 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	It was probably a Gyoury. Very handy flour. sticks. Very compact. B&H and others sell them. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 14th, 2003, 08:07 PM	#3
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Very nice they are, too. Has anyone played with the 13 watt Ottlight? My wife uses one for sewing. It is daylight corrected and broad spectrum. Looking at the Gyoury, I was reminded of the Ottlight and took a look at it. Very similar but in a small table-top clamshell setup. It turns on as the shell is opened and stays in any orientation from nearly closed to fully open in the vertical position. Looks good just with a quick look with the LCD panel on my PD150. Colors pop, color balance is easy. This web site http://www.save-on-crafts.com/ottrucolbrsa.html has them for $43. Others cost more but have more power or are built into various stands. Some look like they would be good for illuminating a copy stand. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

February 14th, 2003, 11:54 PM	#4
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Gyoury is a new one on me. Thanks for pointing that out, Ken. Amazingly expensive, aren't they? I think I need to get in the lighting business...cut current retailers prices by 60% and still walk away with a hefty profit. Mike, thanks also for pointing out the Ottlight. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

February 16th, 2003, 01:53 PM	#5
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	John, Le me know if you need a shop in Holland to sell your lighting gear, I could use some profits myself :) __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 4th, 2003, 02:56 PM	#6
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Gents: The gaffer on my current feature is a bigtime Gyoury fan and we have used up to 12 of them at a time on lighting setups. At any time, they might appear as eyelights, facial fill (the lead actor is Bernie Mac and he has a particularly dark complexion, requiring plenty of fill) or in the "chinese lantern" mode for walk-and-talks. I've become very impressed with their versatility and construction, and intend to buy a kit when I finish this show. As far as the cost, I can only say that they are well-designed and well-made (hand-built, actually). The time factor of R&D combined with the relatively low unit sales of a speciality item like this means the profit margin is far less than it would seem. For anyone considering fluorescent fixtures and wanting maximum flexibility in configuration, I definitely recommend the Gyoury system. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

July 4th, 2003, 07:11 PM	#7
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Hey Charles, What is the effective range of, say, one Gyoury wand in a Chinese Lantern as opposed to one of the "kits" (that look like they're made up of two wands)? I'm just wondering how closely the lamps have to be held to the subject...for instance, are they powerful enough to illuminate a subject in a night outdoor shot when held at a distance of about 6 feet? __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

July 4th, 2003, 08:30 PM	#8
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Hi John: They are remarkably bright, but I don't have specific stats on them. However, I'm confident that a single wand in the Chinese lantern would be adequate illumination at 6 ft for DV shooting. You simply couldn't get that level of intensity from an incandescent bulb in a traditional paper lantern, it would be a fire hazard. The two wands are mounted so that they fill both sides of the lantern (great for 360 degree lighting, such as suspending it over a table) but if you are just shooting one direction, you will get much of the benefit from a single wand. The dimming function is terrific; they hold color temperature and will dim down to approximately 10%. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

September 18th, 2003, 11:44 AM	#9
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	To correct my previous post, the lantern will hold up to four wands. For a single direction, two will suffice, for 360 degree lighting one would use all four. The ballasts are designed to power two units at a time, so it's best to use them in multiples of two. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

September 19th, 2003, 07:51 AM	#10
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Hey Rob and John... are you guys gonna' support me when I start making fluorescents? Okay seriously, I thought all the fluorescents were overpriced also... and to a certain extent, they are, but not as overpriced as your first instinct tells you. Mole 650w Tweenie $340, with barndoors $395, with bulb $425. Non-dimming and bulbs last about 200 hours. Gyoury non-dimming WITH two bulbs included. Daylight OR Tungsten. Oh yeah, and those bulbs last 10,000 HOURS. $545 and barndoors are part of the design. Plus you can remove a wand and stick it on a car visor or in some other tight spot you want softlight to eminate from. Since the bulbs are $42 each you can figure that a complete fixture WITHOUT bulbs is only $461 with barndoors. That's ONLY $66 dollars more then ONE fresnel... and if you really want to convince yourself the Gyoury is a good deal then PRICE A SPEEDRING AND SOFTBOX FOR THAT FRESNEL... then the Gyoury is HUNDREDS CHEAPER. There ya' go Charles... tell your buddy at Gyoury that you met some guy on dvinfo with a 160 IQ who can market his product better then anybody else... 'cause those are just a couple quick facts and a damn good argument for Gyoury. John and Rob... If you get a chance to compare the Kino fixtures with the Gyoury in person then it isn't even close. The Kino fixtures are made from corrugated plastic (polypropylene)... AKA Coroplast... AKA the same material used for YARD SIGNS... albeit in 6 mil as opposed to 4 mil for a yard sign... the Moles will be made from this also. As soon as I get my final design done I'll find a way to show you guys my home-made jobbies. They are CHEAP, but they are made cheap! If I wanted to sell them I'd still have to get $150 per fixture just to make it worth my while! (My cost is $100 per light without tubes.) And then if you got one you'd say, "this doesn't look as good as a Kino and it SURE doesn't look as good as a Gyoury."... For that $150 you'd have a crappy fixture with a cheap, although flicker-free, electronic ballast... barndoors that you'd have to gaffer tape into place (which takes the seconds that I can spare)... and a positionable mounting stud on the back of a fixture which adds about $55 to the otherwise truly dirt-cheap cost... To compare this to a Gyoury you need barndoors that hold position which adds another $50-$100... high current electronic ballast at $100 or dimmable ballast which adds $150... shell construction is variable but probably about $150-$200 retail... see the math? A $550 Gyoury light probably costs the Gyoury guys $200-$300 to build... in order to actually stay in business that doesn't leave much margin. You may think that's a good markup but it ISN'T. A $15 pizza costs less then a buck to make and still pizza shops go out of business all the time. To make your own Gyourys would probably cost you close to $400 each. So the point is that if somebody wanted to they could make some cheap fixtures CHEAPLY... but they would be a CHEAP alternative to the Kino and Gyoury... not a high quality alternative. But even after that good argument for Gyoury... CHEAP is the route I've chosen... 'cause I wanted to have at least 5 fluorescents at my disposal (no pun intended) and now I have 5 for the cost of one Kino or Gyoury.

September 23rd, 2003, 08:37 PM	#11
John Hartney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Elgin, Illinois Posts: 206	Don't forget there are companies in Europe that make fluro kits that aren't marketed here in the states at all... Grigul in Germany makes a kit that is popular in Europe and Asia, but there unknown here in the states... Similar in design to videssence it seems...

December 30th, 2005, 12:25 PM	#13
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	FYI, I haven't had any problems with the Gyoury color rendition--film is much more demanding with the mired shift than video, and have used the Gyoury's successful on film shoots. They actually have a tendency to overcompensate by going slightly magenta when dimmed way down, if anything. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com