chandelier challenge_increasing output at DVinfo.net

Kevan Holdsworth · February 14th, 2006, 10:52 AM

Hello all, hope someone can help...

We shoot a 'speaker forum' in a room that was not designed for television. We are currently exploring long-term solutions to several challenges, but I'm hoping to get a short-term solution to raise my luminance levels in the room.

BTW, the architecture and design of the room are needing to be kept true...so some limitations apply.

-Room is appx. 60' long, 40' wide w/15' ceilings
-'Podium/Stage' is lit with tungstens
-There are 6-12 fixture chandeliers that hang appx 4' down from the ceiling that essentially light the room.
-Chandeliers currently have 120v/40w clear smooth/flame looking bulbs with 7/16" screw in connections (sorry, I don't know the proper terms) I've been told that 60w is the highest I'll find.

What I'd like to do is replace the bulbs with the highest wattage available for the fixtures (that the electrical load can handle) and am wanting to know if there are specially made incandescent fixture bulbs with a higher color temperature/wattage for these 7/16" receptacles.

Color balancing my GL1's at a bare minimum of lumens available is a nightmare, particularly since the stage is lit tungsten and the room is all incandescent.

We are also dealing with the daylight spill from side windows. Short-term, can I simply cover the windows with CTO to help there? The windows have venetion blinds drawn shut, so I don't think it's affecting overall light levels, but certainly affects color temperature and blowout when a shot picks them up.

Sorry if I've used incorrect terminology, I'm on a learning curve here. Any assistance is always appreciated.

Kevan

Richard Alvarez · February 14th, 2006, 12:17 PM

Topbulb.com is a good place to start looking for light bulbs.

Marcus Marchesseault · February 14th, 2006, 06:06 PM

"Color balancing my GL1's at a bare minimum of lumens available is a nightmare, particularly since the stage is lit tungsten and the room is all incandescent."

I have a suspicion from this statement that the chandelier are dimmed somehow. This is because incandescent and tungsten are technically the same. Yes, stage lights tend to be a higher color temperature, but not so high that undimmed incandescant bulbs should cause a serious problem. Dimmed bulbs have a lower color temperature which would cause the issue you describe. I also seem to recall that there are decorative bulbs that are intentionally designed to run at a lower color temperature to look more like candles.

First, check for a dimmer somewhere. Second, get an assortment of these bulbs and check to see if they run amber or look like regular incandescents (~3000K). I think they might wind the filaments differently in some decoratives to make them "burn" more amber. If you can't find appropriate bulbs, you could gel down the stage lights a bit. I would NOT increase the wattage as you are already looking at almost 3000W of light on these fixtures. If you move up to 60W bulbs, you will be pushing over 4000W and that might be on a single circuit.

CTO on the windows should make a difference. If the windows are blowing out too much, you can also use ND (neutral density) gels to cut down the amount of light. I think it may even be possible to get gels that are simultaneously CTO and ND in one gel. Of course, ND might bring down your room's useful illumination, so you might want to only add it on windows that get in the shot. Actually, if you CTO windows not in the shot, you could open them up a bit to increase overall illumination.

Bill Ball · February 15th, 2006, 08:08 AM

You might see if you can find halogen bulbs to fit your fixtures. That will bring the color temp closer to the stage lights than regular incandescents. The halogens usually run ~3000k and thus they are noticably cooler than regular bulbs and sort of blend in with 3200k lights.

Kevan Holdsworth · February 24th, 2006, 01:55 PM

Thanks for the replies, sorry I didn't make it back sooner.

The chandeliers are on dimmers, but are on full power. I don't have a color temp meter or lux meter, but by eyeballing them, they are noticably warmer than my stage lights.

I found some 1/2 CTO in storage and covered the windows,...but am guessing I'd need another 1/2 or replace with full CTO to achieve correct conversion of the sunlight to tunsten.

Marcus, you're right about the bump up in wattage with the 60s. I'm waiting for facilities mgmt to give me a correct load capacity on that circuit.

I appreciate the suggestions and will follow up on them.

Thanks again,
Kevan

Bob Hart · February 25th, 2006, 03:57 AM

These are probably two stupid suggestions.

1.

Are Nelson edison screw flouros (powersavers) an option to replace the chandelier globes. I have two which are the equivalent of 240watts output. I have used them in old portrait photoflood holders.

2.

Could you hide some reflector material in the chandeliers and bounce some light off them with theatre spotlights, leaving the original incandencent lamps running in place.

Josh Hoffman · February 28th, 2006, 06:40 PM

I agree with Marcus, if you're thinking that 40-60w bulbs aren't going to give you enough light, you might want to shoot some tests. With what, like 6 bulbs per fixture, you're looking at 240-360W per. And, unless it's a style you're going for, chandeliers aren't usually overblown. So, don't let the low wattage of the singular bulb discourage you. It's a lot more light than one might think.

February 14th, 2006, 10:52 AM	#1
Kevan Holdsworth Tourist Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2	chandelier challenge_increasing output Hello all, hope someone can help... We shoot a 'speaker forum' in a room that was not designed for television. We are currently exploring long-term solutions to several challenges, but I'm hoping to get a short-term solution to raise my luminance levels in the room. BTW, the architecture and design of the room are needing to be kept true...so some limitations apply. -Room is appx. 60' long, 40' wide w/15' ceilings -'Podium/Stage' is lit with tungstens -There are 6-12 fixture chandeliers that hang appx 4' down from the ceiling that essentially light the room. -Chandeliers currently have 120v/40w clear smooth/flame looking bulbs with 7/16" screw in connections (sorry, I don't know the proper terms) I've been told that 60w is the highest I'll find. What I'd like to do is replace the bulbs with the highest wattage available for the fixtures (that the electrical load can handle) and am wanting to know if there are specially made incandescent fixture bulbs with a higher color temperature/wattage for these 7/16" receptacles. Color balancing my GL1's at a bare minimum of lumens available is a nightmare, particularly since the stage is lit tungsten and the room is all incandescent. We are also dealing with the daylight spill from side windows. Short-term, can I simply cover the windows with CTO to help there? The windows have venetion blinds drawn shut, so I don't think it's affecting overall light levels, but certainly affects color temperature and blowout when a shot picks them up. Sorry if I've used incorrect terminology, I'm on a learning curve here. Any assistance is always appreciated. Kevan

February 24th, 2006, 01:55 PM	#5
Kevan Holdsworth Tourist Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2	chandelier thanks Thanks for the replies, sorry I didn't make it back sooner. The chandeliers are on dimmers, but are on full power. I don't have a color temp meter or lux meter, but by eyeballing them, they are noticably warmer than my stage lights. I found some 1/2 CTO in storage and covered the windows,...but am guessing I'd need another 1/2 or replace with full CTO to achieve correct conversion of the sunlight to tunsten. Marcus, you're right about the bump up in wattage with the 60s. I'm waiting for facilities mgmt to give me a correct load capacity on that circuit. I appreciate the suggestions and will follow up on them. Thanks again, Kevan

February 14th, 2006, 12:17 PM	#2
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Topbulb.com is a good place to start looking for light bulbs.

February 14th, 2006, 06:06 PM	#3
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	"Color balancing my GL1's at a bare minimum of lumens available is a nightmare, particularly since the stage is lit tungsten and the room is all incandescent." I have a suspicion from this statement that the chandelier are dimmed somehow. This is because incandescent and tungsten are technically the same. Yes, stage lights tend to be a higher color temperature, but not so high that undimmed incandescant bulbs should cause a serious problem. Dimmed bulbs have a lower color temperature which would cause the issue you describe. I also seem to recall that there are decorative bulbs that are intentionally designed to run at a lower color temperature to look more like candles. First, check for a dimmer somewhere. Second, get an assortment of these bulbs and check to see if they run amber or look like regular incandescents (~3000K). I think they might wind the filaments differently in some decoratives to make them "burn" more amber. If you can't find appropriate bulbs, you could gel down the stage lights a bit. I would NOT increase the wattage as you are already looking at almost 3000W of light on these fixtures. If you move up to 60W bulbs, you will be pushing over 4000W and that might be on a single circuit. CTO on the windows should make a difference. If the windows are blowing out too much, you can also use ND (neutral density) gels to cut down the amount of light. I think it may even be possible to get gels that are simultaneously CTO and ND in one gel. Of course, ND might bring down your room's useful illumination, so you might want to only add it on windows that get in the shot. Actually, if you CTO windows not in the shot, you could open them up a bit to increase overall illumination.

February 15th, 2006, 08:08 AM	#4
Bill Ball Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NEW JERSEY Posts: 216	You might see if you can find halogen bulbs to fit your fixtures. That will bring the color temp closer to the stage lights than regular incandescents. The halogens usually run ~3000k and thus they are noticably cooler than regular bulbs and sort of blend in with 3200k lights.

February 25th, 2006, 03:57 AM	#6
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	These are probably two stupid suggestions. 1. Are Nelson edison screw flouros (powersavers) an option to replace the chandelier globes. I have two which are the equivalent of 240watts output. I have used them in old portrait photoflood holders. 2. Could you hide some reflector material in the chandeliers and bounce some light off them with theatre spotlights, leaving the original incandencent lamps running in place.

February 28th, 2006, 06:40 PM	#7
Josh Hoffman New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Athens, Oh Posts: 6	I agree with Marcus, if you're thinking that 40-60w bulbs aren't going to give you enough light, you might want to shoot some tests. With what, like 6 bulbs per fixture, you're looking at 240-360W per. And, unless it's a style you're going for, chandeliers aren't usually overblown. So, don't let the low wattage of the singular bulb discourage you. It's a lot more light than one might think.