Cheap Lights Versus Expensive Lights

Richard Alvarez · January 26th, 2006, 07:28 AM

Cheap diffusion material.

Baking parchment... yeah, it's probably the best. I always keep a roll in the grip bag. It's pretty thick, expect to cut the light output by at least a stop, maybe more. That's not a bad thing in a small space where you need to get the lights close to your subject.

Bounce cards and reflectors... plenty of home made options. This can be even softer than blasting through the parchment paper, but a little less controlled.

Carefull as you test your diffusion materials... test BEFORE you are on set. Don't want to start a fire. I had to use a double headed work light source once... plenty of power and wattage, awfully harsh light. I took a diffuse semi-clear 'frosted' shower curtain, stretched it with bungee cords and blasted the light THROUGH that. Really softened it up. Almost like using spun glass. But keep the light far enough away from the curtain. Remember when bouncing and dispersing through materials, the LARGER the bounce surface, or diffusion surface, the softer the light will appear. (You will also get less specular highlights if you are shooting shiny products)

Have fun!

K. Forman · January 26th, 2006, 07:49 AM

Just out of curiosity, I have used parchment paper for *gasp!* baking, and have noticed it tends to yellow a bit with the heat. Is this an issue when used with lights?

Emre Safak · January 26th, 2006, 08:41 AM

Yes, of course, that would affect the color temperature. The solution is simply to replace it as soon as you notice it, or every few hours.

Thank you, Marcus, for the great explanation. I would like to add that another difference between cheap- and expensive lights is the quality, or verisimilitude, as measured by the CRI (Color Rendering Index). A good light will emit a broad and even spectrum, which means it will render colors accurately. A low CRI light will accentuate certain colors, while suppressing others. Definitely not good.

Richard Alvarez · January 26th, 2006, 09:29 AM

Keith,

Haven't noticed any yellowing, and I've used it in front of a 1k Lowel DP, for more than an hour. But sure, just like gels, when it fades or melts or discolors, toss it out.

K. Forman · January 26th, 2006, 10:11 AM

Must be the way I bake then...

Richard Alvarez · January 26th, 2006, 11:29 AM

Keith,

Seriously, it might actually have to do with the proximity of the actual foodstuffs...

But yeah, I've never seen the parchment paper yellow when kept a good 8-10 inches from the 1k light source.

K. Forman · January 26th, 2006, 11:50 AM

That's good to know Richard. I was just curious about it, because it does seem to yellow when baking food on it. But, as you said, it could be because of the food.

Richard Alvarez · January 26th, 2006, 01:17 PM

Keith,

On the off chance that it's a 'brand' issue, I went and checked what I had in my grip box. I'm using "REYNOLDS Parchment Paper" - The same people who make Reynolds Alluminum Foil.

Not sure what you have available to you - but hey, clip a piece in front of your hottest light, and let it sit for an hour... that should do the trick.

Steve Witt · January 26th, 2006, 10:31 PM

In my little experience, I have also NOT seen any discoloration of the Baking/Parchment paper and I clip it directly onto the front of these hot hot double headed worklights. I think I had the lights on for at least 3 hours I still have the wire cage on the front of my worklights and this is the only separation from the glass face of the light. Shadows of these wires are not a factor after diffusing this way. By the way...I also used Reynolds.

Steve Witt · January 26th, 2006, 11:59 PM

Something else that I have noticed through playing around with worklights. When talking about the double headed halogen worklights on a stand, they will project a pretty clean and focused shadow pattern on the wall with the GOBO or PATTERN, as close as right up against the light's wire cage. That is.....only the "HORIZONTAL" details anyway. But anything vertical or straight up and down will be so diffuse and blurred when that close to the light that it is an insignificant detail. Even the wire cage protector proves this.....as it has vertical and horizontal wires equadistant from the lamp and only the horizontal wire casts a shadow. The halogen lamp is installed horizontaly in the fixture which I guess has something to do with this phenomenon. So this may help if anyone wants to create simple easy horizontal shadows (as in a window shade pattern) or similar. Other cool things that I have tried: a crude stick/wicker basket creates an awesome pattern (I know......Fire Hazzard!!!). Also tried a flat metal drain cover (with slats oriented horizontaly) for a safe easy pattern. As everyone has said though.....always be very careful about the materials that you put close to these extremely hot lights.

Has anyone else noticed this silly discovery??

Tracey Winning · January 27th, 2006, 03:00 AM

[QUOTE=Steve Witt] When talking about the double headed halogen worklights on a stand,/[QUOTE]

Steve,

Interesting,...... I have those double headed halogen worklights on a stand but cant recall these patterns (possibly bec I dont want patterns and probably have automatically unconsciously adjusted things to avoid them).

But will specifically look for them next time i use them.

One thing though........with all this playing around with hot lights and different things over them or close to them......Im beginning to think a little portable fire extinguisher would not go astray!!!!!! Perhaps its not totally necessary but.....Im thinking it would be kinda nice to know there's one handy!

Tracey

Steve Witt · January 27th, 2006, 08:07 AM

Hey, a small fire extinguisher may not be a bad idea for your grip kit. You read about some of the most experienced poeple on here sometimes describing an embarassing (and dangerous) incindent that happened while early in the learning stages of their career having to do with lights and fire hazzards.

Cole McDonald · March 24th, 2006, 10:42 AM

Here's the lights I've been using:

http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_li...rgy_saving.htm

Soft white spiral flourescents. I've gotten good consistent color out of them and haven't seen any flickering/color shifting.

Plus, after 5 hours of shooting with them on, I could unscrew the bulb with my bare hand without turning off the light...they hardly generate any heat at all...your actors will love you for buying these. I run them in a standard $5 clamp on scoop reflector light from home depot. the bulbs are about $3 a piece in packs of 4. They also require about 1/3 the power to run for the same amount of light, so you can put more light on a circuit (great if you're running off a car battery with a cigarette lighter adapter :) ).

You should never have problems with any gels or diffusion material melting with these.

Emre Safak · March 24th, 2006, 10:52 AM

Cole, did you use any diffusion? How much light does it produce? Finally, do you have any clips or stills taken with these lights?

Cole McDonald · March 24th, 2006, 01:35 PM

the softer lit scenes here have no diffusion at all:

http://www.yafiunderground.com/Video/Reel.wmv

no diffusion, 28 watt light is rated at 100 watt equiv (according to GE). These shots were actually using the phillips marathon line of bulbs, but they dim rather quickly when you move/bang them around alot. The GE's have a warranty too :). The first day we shot with halogen worklights and we had to take cool down breaks as the actors would get too hot in the little space we had...it was horrible. With the flourescents, I have a couple of scenes with the light being held up in a corner by my AD, barehanded...we were out of light stands.

shot lighting in the clip:
1-(F)lourescent
2-(H)alogen
3-(N)atural
4-N
5-N
6-N + (B)ounce
7-N
8-N + B
9-F
10-F
11-F + (S)treet
12-F
13-F
14-F
15-F
16-H + F
17-(S)odium (V)apor
18-SV
19-H

January 26th, 2006, 07:49 AM	#17
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Just out of curiosity, I have used parchment paper for gasp! baking, and have noticed it tends to yellow a bit with the heat. Is this an issue when used with lights? __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

January 26th, 2006, 10:11 AM	#20
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Must be the way I bake then... __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

January 26th, 2006, 11:50 AM	#22
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	That's good to know Richard. I was just curious about it, because it does seem to yellow when baking food on it. But, as you said, it could be because of the food. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

March 24th, 2006, 10:42 AM	#28
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	Here's the lights I've been using: http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_li...rgy_saving.htm Soft white spiral flourescents. I've gotten good consistent color out of them and haven't seen any flickering/color shifting. Plus, after 5 hours of shooting with them on, I could unscrew the bulb with my bare hand without turning off the light...they hardly generate any heat at all...your actors will love you for buying these. I run them in a standard $5 clamp on scoop reflector light from home depot. the bulbs are about $3 a piece in packs of 4. They also require about 1/3 the power to run for the same amount of light, so you can put more light on a circuit (great if you're running off a car battery with a cigarette lighter adapter :) ). You should never have problems with any gels or diffusion material melting with these. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

March 24th, 2006, 01:35 PM	#30
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	the softer lit scenes here have no diffusion at all: http://www.yafiunderground.com/Video/Reel.wmv no diffusion, 28 watt light is rated at 100 watt equiv (according to GE). These shots were actually using the phillips marathon line of bulbs, but they dim rather quickly when you move/bang them around alot. The GE's have a warranty too :). The first day we shot with halogen worklights and we had to take cool down breaks as the actors would get too hot in the little space we had...it was horrible. With the flourescents, I have a couple of scenes with the light being held up in a corner by my AD, barehanded...we were out of light stands. shot lighting in the clip: 1-(F)lourescent 2-(H)alogen 3-(N)atural 4-N 5-N 6-N + (B)ounce 7-N 8-N + B 9-F 10-F 11-F + (S)treet 12-F 13-F 14-F 15-F 16-H + F 17-(S)odium (V)apor 18-SV 19-H __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

January 26th, 2006, 07:28 AM	#16
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Cheap diffusion material. Baking parchment... yeah, it's probably the best. I always keep a roll in the grip bag. It's pretty thick, expect to cut the light output by at least a stop, maybe more. That's not a bad thing in a small space where you need to get the lights close to your subject. Bounce cards and reflectors... plenty of home made options. This can be even softer than blasting through the parchment paper, but a little less controlled. Carefull as you test your diffusion materials... test BEFORE you are on set. Don't want to start a fire. I had to use a double headed work light source once... plenty of power and wattage, awfully harsh light. I took a diffuse semi-clear 'frosted' shower curtain, stretched it with bungee cords and blasted the light THROUGH that. Really softened it up. Almost like using spun glass. But keep the light far enough away from the curtain. Remember when bouncing and dispersing through materials, the LARGER the bounce surface, or diffusion surface, the softer the light will appear. (You will also get less specular highlights if you are shooting shiny products) Have fun!

January 26th, 2006, 08:41 AM	#18
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	Yes, of course, that would affect the color temperature. The solution is simply to replace it as soon as you notice it, or every few hours. Thank you, Marcus, for the great explanation. I would like to add that another difference between cheap- and expensive lights is the quality, or verisimilitude, as measured by the CRI (Color Rendering Index). A good light will emit a broad and even spectrum, which means it will render colors accurately. A low CRI light will accentuate certain colors, while suppressing others. Definitely not good.

January 26th, 2006, 09:29 AM	#19
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Keith, Haven't noticed any yellowing, and I've used it in front of a 1k Lowel DP, for more than an hour. But sure, just like gels, when it fades or melts or discolors, toss it out.

January 26th, 2006, 11:29 AM	#21
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Keith, Seriously, it might actually have to do with the proximity of the actual foodstuffs... But yeah, I've never seen the parchment paper yellow when kept a good 8-10 inches from the 1k light source.

January 26th, 2006, 01:17 PM	#23
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Keith, On the off chance that it's a 'brand' issue, I went and checked what I had in my grip box. I'm using "REYNOLDS Parchment Paper" - The same people who make Reynolds Alluminum Foil. Not sure what you have available to you - but hey, clip a piece in front of your hottest light, and let it sit for an hour... that should do the trick.

January 26th, 2006, 10:31 PM	#24
Steve Witt Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kentucky, USA Posts: 429	In my little experience, I have also NOT seen any discoloration of the Baking/Parchment paper and I clip it directly onto the front of these hot hot double headed worklights. I think I had the lights on for at least 3 hours I still have the wire cage on the front of my worklights and this is the only separation from the glass face of the light. Shadows of these wires are not a factor after diffusing this way. By the way...I also used Reynolds.

January 26th, 2006, 11:59 PM	#25
Steve Witt Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kentucky, USA Posts: 429	Something else that I have noticed through playing around with worklights. When talking about the double headed halogen worklights on a stand, they will project a pretty clean and focused shadow pattern on the wall with the GOBO or PATTERN, as close as right up against the light's wire cage. That is.....only the "HORIZONTAL" details anyway. But anything vertical or straight up and down will be so diffuse and blurred when that close to the light that it is an insignificant detail. Even the wire cage protector proves this.....as it has vertical and horizontal wires equadistant from the lamp and only the horizontal wire casts a shadow. The halogen lamp is installed horizontaly in the fixture which I guess has something to do with this phenomenon. So this may help if anyone wants to create simple easy horizontal shadows (as in a window shade pattern) or similar. Other cool things that I have tried: a crude stick/wicker basket creates an awesome pattern (I know......Fire Hazzard!!!). Also tried a flat metal drain cover (with slats oriented horizontaly) for a safe easy pattern. As everyone has said though.....always be very careful about the materials that you put close to these extremely hot lights. Has anyone else noticed this silly discovery??

January 27th, 2006, 03:00 AM	#26
Tracey Winning Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne and Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 31	[QUOTE=Steve Witt] When talking about the double headed halogen worklights on a stand,/[QUOTE] Steve, Interesting,...... I have those double headed halogen worklights on a stand but cant recall these patterns (possibly bec I dont want patterns and probably have automatically unconsciously adjusted things to avoid them). But will specifically look for them next time i use them. One thing though........with all this playing around with hot lights and different things over them or close to them......Im beginning to think a little portable fire extinguisher would not go astray!!!!!! Perhaps its not totally necessary but.....Im thinking it would be kinda nice to know there's one handy! Tracey

January 27th, 2006, 08:07 AM	#27
Steve Witt Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kentucky, USA Posts: 429	Hey, a small fire extinguisher may not be a bad idea for your grip kit. You read about some of the most experienced poeple on here sometimes describing an embarassing (and dangerous) incindent that happened while early in the learning stages of their career having to do with lights and fire hazzards.

March 24th, 2006, 10:52 AM	#29
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	Cole, did you use any diffusion? How much light does it produce? Finally, do you have any clips or stills taken with these lights?