Getting an ARRI Fresnel Wet? at DVinfo.net

Caleb Reynolds · December 31st, 2010, 10:52 AM

I know the title probably strikes fear into everyones heart, but you have no need to worry.

What I got is this. I have a scene for a music video where I'm gonna have a dancer in a shower. The shower has a huge glass wall so you can see into it from the bedroom.

We are going to completely fog the glass and I want to shine a back light into the shower. The light WOULD NOT be getting water on it, but it will be getting steamed up.

Would any of you recommend a different light for this? Trying to stay cheap.

Brian Drysdale · December 31st, 2010, 12:50 PM

You should be okay if keep the light on throughout the filming. The heat from the lamp will evaporate any condensation. However, keep any cabling and connections well away from any water.

We did some night exteriors using Redheads and Blondes while it was raining. I had checked with a gaffer in case this happened and his advice was to keep the lights on all the time, the heat evaporates the rain drops. Hearing from other gaffers, this seems to be common practise.

Charles Papert · December 31st, 2010, 02:41 PM

We usually use a flexible metal material over lights in the rain, like a very fine mesh--sadly I couldn't tell you where to get it.

I think you should be fine in the shower with just ambient condensation around. Obviously as Brian said, keep the plug connections out of the water, and make sure there is a sandbag on the stand and the light is securely fastened to the stand.

Brian Drysdale · December 31st, 2010, 03:23 PM

I guess the mesh breaks up the rain droplets without gathering the water over the lights.

Richard Andrewski · December 31st, 2010, 05:15 PM

Some gaffers use something they call 'celotex' and the part number is SG-3650. Its not metal, its fiberglass so there aren't worries with heat. You can get it in Chicago at Warp Brothers:

Screen-Glass® | Quality Plastic Products | Warp Bros.

This can also be used as a scrim too.

There may be a metal one too but I don't know about that one.

Bob Hart · January 1st, 2011, 01:16 AM

I would recommend leaving the light switched on for 15 minutes or so after the moisture source is removed.

Any moisture which has entered the lamphouse, been driven off but recondenses in cooler parts of the lamphouse will hopefully be again driven off completely.

Where this recondensation occurrs may be in an electical junction box if a passthrough grommet has deteriorated or if there is none there at all.

If in use, the lamp subsequently gives off an electrical smell, it will be time to have the lamp checked. It will be likely a resistive conductive track has grown across between active and neutral at a cable connection point or the end of the cable at the same connection point has deteriorated insulation and a resistive electrical path between the individual wires has developed.

Don't flog the lamp on in this state until it fails. There may be evenually occur a smoulder in the cable end which will give off a little smoke, which you may not observe. This may stain and ruin the reflector.

Out here, there is a fine stainless mesh which is installed in house foundataions for termite control. It is called "termimesh" here. It might do the same job as Charles suggests. Big builders hardware stores might have it.

Bill Davis · January 2nd, 2011, 04:26 PM

Don't know why this entered my mind, and I don't even know if its relevant - but unless you have an UNUSUALLY large shower stall - with significant distance between the back wall and the dancer - I'm having trouble trying to understand how you're going to get any kind of back or rim light on more than the dancers head.

If you want the effect of a full figure silhouette blacked out - you're going to need a bright background almost as large as the figure itself.

I'd think scouting a location with a SUPER high ceiling then putting a strong light as HIGH overhead as you can and bouncing it off the back wall would get you a better effect than mounting the light anywhere in the shower itself. And with a setup like that - the fixture would be WAY out of any water stream.

Just off the top of my head.

YMMV.

Peter Moretti · January 3rd, 2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caleb Reynolds

I know the title probably strikes fear into everyones heart, but you have no need to worry.

What I got is this. I have a scene for a music video where I'm gonna have a dancer in a shower. The shower has a huge glass wall so you can see into it from the bedroom.

We are going to completely fog the glass and I want to shine a back light into the shower. The light WOULD NOT be getting water on it, but it will be getting steamed up.

Would any of you recommend a different light for this? Trying to stay cheap.

"no need to worry," "music video," "huge glass wall," "light," "water," "Trying to stay cheap."

This is the kind of stuff that scares the crap out me. Sorry, don't mean this directed at you personally.

Peter Moretti · January 3rd, 2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

... I think you should be fine in the shower with just ambient condensation around. Obviously as Brian said, keep the plug connections out of the water, and make sure there is a sandbag on the stand and the light is securely fastened to the stand.

Do you really think it's okay to have a dancer dancing next to a C-stand holding an Arri Fresnel inside a shower?

It's going to take more than sandbags and baby yoke adapters or whatever you use to attach a fresnel to a grip head to make this "fine."

Michael Panfeld · January 3rd, 2011, 08:59 PM

I like Bill's idea. Why place the light anywhere near the shower. Why not use a reflector and place the light a safe distance away? Doesn't have to be up high. Can be off to the side or down low. Pretty easy to control the spill with flags. Who cares if a reflector board gets wet!

Brian Drysdale · January 4th, 2011, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Do you really think it's okay to have a dancer dancing next to a C-stand holding an Arri Fresnel inside a shower?

If doing this, I'd tend to rig the light using a wall spreader, so that the floor is clear, One problem with a mirror would be condescension.

Having said that, if the shower enclosure is fogged up, does the water actually need to be running for this particular shot? Perhaps you could spray a fogged up type effect onto the glass, or perhaps tape frost lighting gel onto the inside.

Gary Nattrass · January 4th, 2011, 04:08 AM

Or could you use a polti type steam cleaner to add condensation to just the shower partition?

John Isgren · January 4th, 2011, 08:11 AM

If you use the lights anywhere near the shower please be sure to use a ground fault interrupter (GFI) to protect your crew and talent.

Heiko Saele · January 10th, 2011, 06:23 AM

Can't you use a battery powered light? Like one or two 100-200W halogen lamps with battery belts
I'm no electrician, but I would feel a lot safer in the shower with a battery powered lamp than with one connected to the 110V wall socket...

Caleb Reynolds · January 14th, 2011, 03:16 PM

Well the shoot is done,

The shower was very big

I was using an ARRI rental, so my comment about staying cheap was just that I didn't want to rent some kinda fancy "made for water light"

My gaffer (who I spent good money on) knew just what to do. :) We put the light high in the shower on a c stand boom and since the shower was large the dancers were not close to it all

Everything worked out.

December 31st, 2010, 10:52 AM	#1
Caleb Reynolds Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 113	Getting an ARRI Fresnel Wet? I know the title probably strikes fear into everyones heart, but you have no need to worry. What I got is this. I have a scene for a music video where I'm gonna have a dancer in a shower. The shower has a huge glass wall so you can see into it from the bedroom. We are going to completely fog the glass and I want to shine a back light into the shower. The light WOULD NOT be getting water on it, but it will be getting steamed up. Would any of you recommend a different light for this? Trying to stay cheap.

December 31st, 2010, 02:41 PM	#3
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	We usually use a flexible metal material over lights in the rain, like a very fine mesh--sadly I couldn't tell you where to get it. I think you should be fine in the shower with just ambient condensation around. Obviously as Brian said, keep the plug connections out of the water, and make sure there is a sandbag on the stand and the light is securely fastened to the stand. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

December 31st, 2010, 05:15 PM	#5
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	Some gaffers use something they call 'celotex' and the part number is SG-3650. Its not metal, its fiberglass so there aren't worries with heat. You can get it in Chicago at Warp Brothers: Screen-Glass® \| Quality Plastic Products \| Warp Bros. This can also be used as a scrim too. There may be a metal one too but I don't know about that one. __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz

January 1st, 2011, 01:16 AM	#6
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	I would recommend leaving the light switched on for 15 minutes or so after the moisture source is removed. Any moisture which has entered the lamphouse, been driven off but recondenses in cooler parts of the lamphouse will hopefully be again driven off completely. Where this recondensation occurrs may be in an electical junction box if a passthrough grommet has deteriorated or if there is none there at all. If in use, the lamp subsequently gives off an electrical smell, it will be time to have the lamp checked. It will be likely a resistive conductive track has grown across between active and neutral at a cable connection point or the end of the cable at the same connection point has deteriorated insulation and a resistive electrical path between the individual wires has developed. Don't flog the lamp on in this state until it fails. There may be evenually occur a smoulder in the cable end which will give off a little smoke, which you may not observe. This may stain and ruin the reflector. Out here, there is a fine stainless mesh which is installed in house foundataions for termite control. It is called "termimesh" here. It might do the same job as Charles suggests. Big builders hardware stores might have it. Last edited by Bob Hart; January 1st, 2011 at 01:21 AM. Reason: can't spell

January 2nd, 2011, 04:26 PM	#7
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Don't know why this entered my mind, and I don't even know if its relevant - but unless you have an UNUSUALLY large shower stall - with significant distance between the back wall and the dancer - I'm having trouble trying to understand how you're going to get any kind of back or rim light on more than the dancers head. If you want the effect of a full figure silhouette blacked out - you're going to need a bright background almost as large as the figure itself. I'd think scouting a location with a SUPER high ceiling then putting a strong light as HIGH overhead as you can and bouncing it off the back wall would get you a better effect than mounting the light anywhere in the shower itself. And with a setup like that - the fixture would be WAY out of any water stream. Just off the top of my head. YMMV. __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

December 31st, 2010, 12:50 PM	#2
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	You should be okay if keep the light on throughout the filming. The heat from the lamp will evaporate any condensation. However, keep any cabling and connections well away from any water. We did some night exteriors using Redheads and Blondes while it was raining. I had checked with a gaffer in case this happened and his advice was to keep the lights on all the time, the heat evaporates the rain drops. Hearing from other gaffers, this seems to be common practise.

December 31st, 2010, 03:23 PM	#4
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	I guess the mesh breaks up the rain droplets without gathering the water over the lights.

January 3rd, 2011, 08:59 PM	#10
Michael Panfeld Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 78	I like Bill's idea. Why place the light anywhere near the shower. Why not use a reflector and place the light a safe distance away? Doesn't have to be up high. Can be off to the side or down low. Pretty easy to control the spill with flags. Who cares if a reflector board gets wet!

January 4th, 2011, 04:08 AM	#12
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	Or could you use a polti type steam cleaner to add condensation to just the shower partition? __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

January 4th, 2011, 08:11 AM	#13
John Isgren New Boot Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 21	If you use the lights anywhere near the shower please be sure to use a ground fault interrupter (GFI) to protect your crew and talent.

January 10th, 2011, 06:23 AM	#14
Heiko Saele Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wurzburg, Germany Posts: 316	Can't you use a battery powered light? Like one or two 100-200W halogen lamps with battery belts I'm no electrician, but I would feel a lot safer in the shower with a battery powered lamp than with one connected to the 110V wall socket...

January 14th, 2011, 03:16 PM	#15
Caleb Reynolds Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 113	Well the shoot is done, The shower was very big I was using an ARRI rental, so my comment about staying cheap was just that I didn't want to rent some kinda fancy "made for water light" My gaffer (who I spent good money on) knew just what to do. :) We put the light high in the shower on a c stand boom and since the shower was large the dancers were not close to it all Everything worked out. __________________ www.TeamKProductions.com Twitter Facebook