White or Gray Card for White Balance?

Tim Buege · August 7th, 2003, 09:10 AM

Bill,

Are you saying it's impossible to calibrate the white balance/color on a Canon GL2? I'm not sure what "standard" you're saying newbies are trying to define.

I consider myself a newbie to DV, but I don't consider myself a part of the vast majority of DV users who just want to record the event and put it on DVD. I'm too much of a perfectionist for that. I may not be a professional, but that shouldn't mean I can't learn and shoot stuff just as good if not better.

Personally, I can see the difference between the effects various shades of white have on the video. I've tried normal writing paper, teeshirts, the car, the side of the house. The only thing so far that I've been satisfied with is a sheet of epson heavy weight matte photo paper. To me, is the closest to a balanced RGB white as I've found.

Bill Ravens · August 7th, 2003, 09:22 AM

Tim...

Sorry if you took my reference to newbie to heart...I didn't mean it in an insulting way. We were all in the position of learning, I still am. My experience is just that cameras like the GL2, xl1s, anything less than the multi 10,000 dollar DV cams, really don't distinguish between the finer shades of white. For all of the good intentioned new filmmakers, the accuracy of these lesser cameras just doesn't justify too much technical perfection.

The bottom line....experiment with different setups, including white balancing to different shades and colors. Find one "reference" that a-gives you pleasing results and b- that you can duplicate...then stick with it. It's the "b" part that's critical. Can you duplicate your own standard wherever you go? Otherwise, the whole point of calibrating white balance is an effort in futility.

Tim Buege · August 7th, 2003, 09:56 AM

Ok, no insult taken. :)

I can surely understand that a $40,000 camera is going to be more accurate than a $2800 GL2, but on the same note the $2800 GL2 is going to be more accurate than a $600 cam. That's why I spent the money.

As for duplicating white balance, time will tell. Even if I can't perfectly reproduce white balance in every situation, my results should be better than not white balancing at all.

I'm still in the learning phase, realizing that sun and shade are colored different, for example. I'm not trying to get perfect balance. Just closer than I'm at. I've got some shots where the white balance is great, in my opinion. So I think that's still doable.

Most of my white balance problems now are due to my not understanding the nature of the current lighting situation when shooting. That will only come with experience, and help from this forum, of course.

Thanks.

Dan Uneken · August 24th, 2003, 08:16 AM

Especially in daylight, when the sun shines, I like to use the preset daylight WB on the XL-1. Scenes in the sun come out a little warmer of tone, scenes in shadows are a little colder of tone. That is perfectly OK & natural and at least the WB is consistent with the ambient light available. Of course this does not work indoors as there are way too many lightsources with different characteristics to use one preset. It would be nice for the XL-1 to have one or two WB memories.

Gints Klimanis · August 24th, 2003, 08:59 PM

I'm new, but I'll take a stab. If the light exceeds the upper limit of the dynamic range of the sensor, the white balance will be inaccurate. For example, if the RGB components of the reflected light are 125%, 150%, and 200% of the upper limit of the CCD, they will read as 100%, 100%, 100%, respectively.

Seun Osewa · January 1st, 2008, 10:25 AM

The auto-exposure corrects that.

Ralph DiSanto · November 25th, 2009, 06:35 AM

I go with 18% gray, works awesome especially in different types of artificial light such as shooting video at night under halogen lights, where you would normally have trouble getting perfect white balance. I shoot a lot of indoor skate parks and the lighting varies all over the place, I would be lost without my 18% gray, makes life simple, also I notice my shots have much sharper focus when I have the correct white balance.

I just had to get some paint for 18% gray, makes it easy to paint objects such as a dolly or a piece of wood to have the correct white balance readily available.

I took my Kodak gray card to Lowe's and had them scan the color and make me a quart of paint, I have seen 18% paint online at outrageous prices, $100 up. This as a lot more durable and cheaper than Kodak Gray cards which can cost up to $65 a set.

Here is the formula - if I recall it was around $8 to $10 a quart

Valspar Ultra Premium
Interior Eggshell finish
Base 4 - Quart size
101-32 107-3.5 109-3.5 113-2Y10

I am pretty sure if you get a gallon it changes the formula, so be sure to tell them the formula is for Quart size, they can convert it to a gallon, if you need more.

Sorry for bringing up an old topic (old wounds)
I figured some people would want the formula
but I'm a newbie, so what do i know

Daniel Bates · December 1st, 2009, 07:50 AM

Thanks for the formula, Ralph.

As an aside: it amazes me how many people I work with think that 'white balancing' refers to setting the exposure. I'm about to start referring to the process as 'colour balancing' instead.

Guy Cochran · December 2nd, 2009, 10:53 AM

Interesting to see a discussion from 2002 pop up! Now that videos can placed into a post, I hope that some find this example of the warmcards to be useful.

August 7th, 2003, 09:10 AM	#46
Tim Buege Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Maplewood, MN, USA Posts: 62	Bill, Are you saying it's impossible to calibrate the white balance/color on a Canon GL2? I'm not sure what "standard" you're saying newbies are trying to define. I consider myself a newbie to DV, but I don't consider myself a part of the vast majority of DV users who just want to record the event and put it on DVD. I'm too much of a perfectionist for that. I may not be a professional, but that shouldn't mean I can't learn and shoot stuff just as good if not better. Personally, I can see the difference between the effects various shades of white have on the video. I've tried normal writing paper, teeshirts, the car, the side of the house. The only thing so far that I've been satisfied with is a sheet of epson heavy weight matte photo paper. To me, is the closest to a balanced RGB white as I've found. __________________ Tim Buege tjbuegeATvisiDOTcom

August 7th, 2003, 09:56 AM	#48
Tim Buege Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Maplewood, MN, USA Posts: 62	Ok, no insult taken. :) I can surely understand that a $40,000 camera is going to be more accurate than a $2800 GL2, but on the same note the $2800 GL2 is going to be more accurate than a $600 cam. That's why I spent the money. As for duplicating white balance, time will tell. Even if I can't perfectly reproduce white balance in every situation, my results should be better than not white balancing at all. I'm still in the learning phase, realizing that sun and shade are colored different, for example. I'm not trying to get perfect balance. Just closer than I'm at. I've got some shots where the white balance is great, in my opinion. So I think that's still doable. Most of my white balance problems now are due to my not understanding the nature of the current lighting situation when shooting. That will only come with experience, and help from this forum, of course. Thanks. __________________ Tim Buege tjbuegeATvisiDOTcom

August 24th, 2003, 08:16 AM	#49
Dan Uneken Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Andalucia, Spain Posts: 301	Especially in daylight, when the sun shines, I like to use the preset daylight WB on the XL-1. Scenes in the sun come out a little warmer of tone, scenes in shadows are a little colder of tone. That is perfectly OK & natural and at least the WB is consistent with the ambient light available. Of course this does not work indoors as there are way too many lightsources with different characteristics to use one preset. It would be nice for the XL-1 to have one or two WB memories. __________________ Film & TV locations & production Spain http://www.fotofilmvideo.com/

December 2nd, 2009, 10:53 AM	#54
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	Interesting to see a discussion from 2002 pop up! Now that videos can placed into a post, I hope that some find this example of the warmcards to be useful. White Balance your camera Warmer with Warmcards on Vimeo __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore!

August 7th, 2003, 09:22 AM	#47
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Tim... Sorry if you took my reference to newbie to heart...I didn't mean it in an insulting way. We were all in the position of learning, I still am. My experience is just that cameras like the GL2, xl1s, anything less than the multi 10,000 dollar DV cams, really don't distinguish between the finer shades of white. For all of the good intentioned new filmmakers, the accuracy of these lesser cameras just doesn't justify too much technical perfection. The bottom line....experiment with different setups, including white balancing to different shades and colors. Find one "reference" that a-gives you pleasing results and b- that you can duplicate...then stick with it. It's the "b" part that's critical. Can you duplicate your own standard wherever you go? Otherwise, the whole point of calibrating white balance is an effort in futility.

August 24th, 2003, 08:59 PM	#50
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	I'm new, but I'll take a stab. If the light exceeds the upper limit of the dynamic range of the sensor, the white balance will be inaccurate. For example, if the RGB components of the reflected light are 125%, 150%, and 200% of the upper limit of the CCD, they will read as 100%, 100%, 100%, respectively.

January 1st, 2008, 10:25 AM	#51
Seun Osewa Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West Africa Posts: 255	The auto-exposure corrects that.

November 25th, 2009, 06:35 AM	#52
Ralph DiSanto Tourist Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 1	I go with 18% gray, works awesome especially in different types of artificial light such as shooting video at night under halogen lights, where you would normally have trouble getting perfect white balance. I shoot a lot of indoor skate parks and the lighting varies all over the place, I would be lost without my 18% gray, makes life simple, also I notice my shots have much sharper focus when I have the correct white balance. I just had to get some paint for 18% gray, makes it easy to paint objects such as a dolly or a piece of wood to have the correct white balance readily available. I took my Kodak gray card to Lowe's and had them scan the color and make me a quart of paint, I have seen 18% paint online at outrageous prices, $100 up. This as a lot more durable and cheaper than Kodak Gray cards which can cost up to $65 a set. Here is the formula - if I recall it was around $8 to $10 a quart Valspar Ultra Premium Interior Eggshell finish Base 4 - Quart size 101-32 107-3.5 109-3.5 113-2Y10 I am pretty sure if you get a gallon it changes the formula, so be sure to tell them the formula is for Quart size, they can convert it to a gallon, if you need more. Sorry for bringing up an old topic (old wounds) I figured some people would want the formula but I'm a newbie, so what do i know

December 1st, 2009, 07:50 AM	#53
Daniel Bates Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Daegu, Korea Posts: 180	Thanks for the formula, Ralph. As an aside: it amazes me how many people I work with think that 'white balancing' refers to setting the exposure. I'm about to start referring to the process as 'colour balancing' instead.